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Originally posted by Peter Lindemann
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Is it possible for you to post the source of this design? maybe in dxf format? I think it would be better than a crude redrawing of mine:
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Reply to Sucahyo pm, and update @ all
With the latches and their springs, and the pendulums with their rubber stops, running 8 pendulums means the software starts missing collision events..Originally posted by sucahyo
Pendulums ignore the notches on the latches and the bottoms of the latches get buried in the eccentric wheel...... Etc......
So I have to put up the accuracy to where it takes my pc about 5 minutes to process each frame.
And that takes way too long for me :-) - instead, I started experimenting with just two pendulums, but to get 4 I had to take away the rubber stops.
I've learnt a lot from the sim software, but it'll be lots easier to just build, which I'm doing now :-) I've got the wheel cut, the base, now glueing the wheel's axle supports together which will support the two wheelbarrow bearings for the axle...
I'll keep everyone updated as things happen :-) And will post this reply in the thread.
Love and lightAtoms move for free. It's all about resonance and phase. Make the circuit open and build a generator.Comment
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Increasing accuracy seems to increase computation time exponentially. This is why I usually adjust Integration error first to 0.001m, increasing accuracy must be done only if integration error do not work. Since I think your simulation is slow speed, don't increase accuracy. It take only seconds to compute frame for a bit complicated object in my considerably slow computer.Originally posted by Inquorate View Post
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More ideas
@ All - hope I'm not flooding this thread with my own comments etc.
@ Peter - after looking at your updated wheel section, it occurred to me that we should / can harvest the torque from pendulum impact ON BOTH SIDES OF THE WHEEL..
I don't know if I've got the springs / rubber stops in the correct places, and I'm wondering if the pendulum's angle at each impact (first 'power' return and secondary return back to start point) ie > or < 90 degrees perpendicular to 'lever' - will affect the direction of the torque, as well as the placement of the spring above or below the 'lever'...
But anyway, we can harvest upwards torque on the other side of the wheel - no need to fight it if we can use it :-)
Up+and+down+torque.jpg (image)
@ Sucahyo - tnx for the tips with the sim software. Much appreciated.
Love and lightLast edited by Inquorate; 04-08-2009, 04:16 AM.Atoms move for free. It's all about resonance and phase. Make the circuit open and build a generator.Comment
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Yes!!!
Inquorate,Originally posted by Inquorate View Post
Yes, I think you are right! Your current idea is consistent with what your film showed. It might work. At this point, all we can do is try it. If adding this final feature to the design works, then there are 4 driving forces forward and only one detracting force. Awesome.
PeterComment
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Sorry
Sucahyo,Originally posted by sucahyo View PostIs it possible for you to post the source of this design? maybe in dxf format? I think it would be better than a crude redrawing of mine:
Sorry, the "source" is a hand drawing scanned into a .jpg file. I posted that file. Honestly, I don't even know what a dxf file is or what program uses them.
PeterComment
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I see. I will try to build it then. DXF is native file format of qcad and supported by working model 2 D.Originally posted by Peter Lindemann View PostComment
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Qcad
If you build it, can you email it to me? Don't forget the extra spring to derive torque from the return of the pendulum to starting position at fall-back at 7 o'clock...
Love and light
@ Sucahyo - ps great to see you in this thread, I know you actively follow and participate in many threads, and I thank you for your time and commitment to the 'great ideal' of human betterment...
NamasteAtoms move for free. It's all about resonance and phase. Make the circuit open and build a generator.Comment
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Slowing Down
Gentlemen,
Having had a little more time to consider the subtle effects of the bumper placement, it has occurred to me that, perhaps, we should slow down and run a few more fundamental tests before proceeding with a full design. Inquorate's original filmed experiment showed that the placement of the bumper determined whether the force of the hammer blow was directed above or below the axis of rotation. In both cases, however, the bumper was quite close to the PIVOT POINT of the pendulum.
In my designs, I have always showed the weight of the pendulum hitting the bumper directly. The purpose of this bumper placement was to make sure that the bearing at the pivot point was relieved of any of the stress of the hammer impact. The question now arises, is that stress at the pivot point essential to directing this force vector or not?
The idea of the possibility of harnessing the fall back hammer blow at the 7 o'clock position, in an attempt to turn that into a forward force, only forces the fundamental issues.
The first question is: "Where is the best placement for the primary bumper?" Is it right at the pendulum level, or is it best placed farther up the connecting rod? If it needs to be closer to the pivot point to work well, this needs to be determined. Secondly, at what angle does the bumper placement 1) produce a forward force, 2) produce a neutral force, 3) produce a reverse force?
The second question is: "Does the driving force of the hammer blow come from a direct hit, or from the reflection of that hit as leveraged at the pivot point?" If both are true, fine. But if only one is true and the other not, we need to know.
The third question is: "Do the placement of both the bumper AND the pivot point play a role in the vectoring of this force?"
Until we can answer these questions, I believe we will still be guessing about the best design to embody the forces.
I can clearly see now that the design proposed in my article is NOT optimized. Inquorate's discovery that the hammer blow can be a major driving force on the wheel changes things considerably. We need to know the answers to the basic questions posed above. When we do, the wheel will design itself. We just need to understand the behavior of the forces involved!
This thread has opened Pandora's Box! We are on the threshold of success. If we proceed deliberately, we cannot fail.
PeterComment
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Started building
Hi all, just a post to let you know what I am up to, well I have found all the parts that I need to start building. I am building to start with an eight spoke wheel out of 16mm box steel tubing, it will be 1mtr diameter plus the slide outs, this is nearly completed and it can in this configuration be used for other test designs. If I have time tomorrow I will take a photo and post it.
Everyone calls me Mike so why not on this forum, it is a bit less formal
hope everyone will have a good easter
MikeComment
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Which design are you building Mike?
I have also decided to build a wheel based on a cam instead of the pendulum. Since Ben is already building a pendulum wheel, this will give us another perspective.
The theory will be basically the same, only I'm using sliders with a weight attached instead of a free swing. I'm also trying to find a configuration which will work with the centrifugal rig I have (If it works with gravity, it'll work on a centrifuge).
Pendulums don't really lend themselves to a high speed rotation.
Cheers,
TedComment
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Sucahyo, two options.Originally posted by sucahyo View Post
One option is IrfanView free software.. This will allow you to take SCREEN SHOTs of your monitor or software program window, image cropping, image resize and save in gif, jpg or whatever format. It even allows you to take
screen shots auto mode every X seconds
To screen capture: Options / Capture / Select CAPTURE AREA
click on the program window to capture and use ctrl-F11 to capture.
photobucket.com is free for uploading your images.
rapidshare.com allows 10 free downloads of a shared DXF .. if it runs out, upload it again for another 10 free downloads, I guess?Remember to be kind to your mind ...
Tesla quoting Buddha: "Ignorance is the greatest evil in the world."
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Very Promising
Ted,Originally posted by Ted Ewert View Post
I'm glad you are pursuing the cam design based on your eccentric, shown in Post #297. Weights moving on sliders that basically follow the cam looks very promising. I was thinking about your design, and when it dawned on me that it may work, IF you can make sure the weights transfer their mass to the wheel instead of to the cam, I realized I'd have to EAT CROW to Cloudseeder for insisting that a pure gravity wheel wouldn't work!
Feathers might be tasting good, very soon.
This thread is really getting interesting.
Thank you all for the great work here.
PeterComment
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Further testing
I've got the base and axle support glueing now. I'll stick a lever on the axle and do some experiments...
Love and lightAtoms move for free. It's all about resonance and phase. Make the circuit open and build a generator.Comment
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There are a lot of interesting forces and mechanisms working together in these simple little wheels. I'm learning new stuff everyday.Originally posted by Peter Lindemann View PostTed,
I'm glad you are pursuing the cam design based on your eccentric, shown in Post #297. Weights moving on sliders that basically follow the cam looks very promising. I was thinking about your design, and when it dawned on me that it may work, IF you can make sure the weights transfer their mass to the wheel instead of to the cam, I realized I'd have to EAT CROW to Cloudseeder for insisting that a pure gravity wheel wouldn't work!
Feathers might be tasting good, very soon.
This thread is really getting interesting.
Thank you all for the great work here.
Peter
The mechanism that I think will add energy to this particular design is acceleration. The weight has to travel a longer distance over the eccentricity in the same amount of time as the other weights take to traverse the same degrees of rotation. This means that the weight has to accelerate down the ramps.
If the angle of the ramp is too shallow, the wheel will have to push the weight to get it going and energy will be lost. If the ramp is too steep, there might no be enough excursion away from the center of mass to generate much power. If the ramp is just right, gravity will maintain pressure on the wheel while also accelerating the weight through the first ramp. The second ramp is where that acceleration energy is transfered to the wheel, as the weight is decelerated back down to inner diameter velocity. The wheel is absorbing the power generated by the increase in velocity of the weight, outside of the center of mass. This is deceleration on a lever.
All the power is generated through gravity providing the energy for acceleration. If the velocity of the weight doubles (with the same mass), the power quadruples. This is force being turned into work.
That's the theory as best I can figure now. I'm building it on a 3 foot wheel and using 1 lb weights. All the dimensions are a shot in the dark, so I'll have some tweaking to do. I'm trying to use Fibonacci ratios wherever I can since they're a good natural proportion guideline. We'll see how it turns out.
Cheers,
TedComment
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