The Mechanical Engine

[Inquorate]

Complete re-think in order

But you're going to love the amount of torque about 2 kilos is able to deliver.

YouTube - wheel experiments

This video is a must-see

Love and light

[Inquorate]

New idea that should work

latest+gravity+mill+idea.jpg (image)

[Mark]

Set your camera on a tripod or table when you film, it will look better and free up both your hands. Great work so far, keep it up

[CloudSeeder]

Ted Ewert's Erroneous Qualification! + Goals and Objective Overview.

In Post #316 Ted stated the following as if we are all Moby Dick strapped to its sides =>

Pendulums don't really lend themselves to a high speed rotation.

This is a true statement sort of if you're thinking about the outer rim rotation speed but WHY WOULD WE DO THAT FOR?! A generator would not be engaged off the outer rim <> it would be closer in to the hub to attain higher rpms off of a secondary (and lesser) axle sprocket... or half way or 2/3 way in running directly off rimside-mounted teeth also, placed at whichever point it would exert less of a drag PLUS|TO achieve its required rpms.

A Pendulum system can use however large a weights you choose to use. Once the proper ratios have been determined then you decide where best to put the generator to meet its rpm & torque requirements. Once that hurdle is crossed you can drop back, decide you want a more powerful generator (more load on the system) and increase the pendulum weights to deliver the package to the larger generator.

** Thanks Peter: I am however convinced that all of us are right in large measure. It's best for now to work on less-complicated systems, grasp the MANY CONCEPTS AND THEIR RELATIONSHIPS, and show them working first.

The Enterprise had to be built before the Excelsior.

Some of these systems may have upper limits. Peter has maintained the Pendulum system is best, a gut feeling he has had for a long time and one that I respect as a pendulum system may have a very much higher upper electrical output ceiling than any of our other systems. The point of difference between some of us is that we have not agreed on the Objective. Peter is right with Pendulums if the objective is a large output worthy of say an entire city block of electrical customers. Companies and industries are brute force users of electricity. I believe Peter's pendulums will come closest to giving that to them.

On the other hand, let's say we wanted a long ship powered by gravity, a single heavy pendulum system would give you a seriously unbalanced ship requiring super heavy hull reinforcements whereas a line of mine (in series more-or-less) sharing the same shaft tied together would take a narrow corridor down the middle of the lower deck like slaves on Roman sailing ships of old, much like a steam turbine used to do I think albeit much larger.

It all depends on the goals, the objectives. I think Peter is right for his objective, if I am correct in assuming he is thinking LARGE $$$ SALES of big units to Industry, skyscrapers, City Halls, schools and so on being his main market target. The rest of us having smaller devices may be thinking apartment buildings or homes, possibly even mounted in electric-powered mid-size motor homes. My Gravity Wheel has always been about powering a single home or apartment.

Which is best?! My feeling about which is the best way to go ~super-size-me or small home/apartment size~ is that electrical consumers have always had a penchant for leaving lights turned on when the power they use is coming from a Remote Source. They lack appreciation (incorrectly looking like gross laziness) because it isn't sitting there in their face demanding they develop electrical responsibility. People cannot develop regulatory ability without something to regulate!

Ultimately
power usage tends to skyrocket into high orbit until
somebody teaches people what electrical currency means.
Small home gravity generation does that.

So far remote generation of electric power has failed to do that. Present electrical providers run television ads proclaiming the people will never learn it and usage will contiinue upwards. They are right so long as remote power remains the source (windmill systems in Oklahoma, solar fields in Nevada). Home generation systems that can be developed as a dropship sales, where people can order them up by postal, Fedex etc delivery and snap together and plug in same day installation, would change the entire sad set of rules we live by now.

The rule we live by now is the Rule of the Triffids Main Power Grid backbone, which is a dandy target of both meteors, solar radiation spikes and terrorists. Main power grid electricity no matter even if it can be generated cheaply in Nevada deserts still suffers 25-30+% transmission losses, snow storm and ice outages from across northern Arkansas to the Chicago suburbs. Power grid thinking is an intolerable 1950's Sci-Fi flick.

Energy Independence has to mean energy independence, as in I take care of what stays turned on in my house while I need it and you next door idiots can leave your air conditioner running til your refrigerator quits and your washing machine won't run.

[CloudSeeder]

The Simpleness of Home Electric Service

I am not a certified electrician by any means so correct me if I'm wrong, but a system cranking out 110V or 220V, the output can be spread to the rest of the house simply by plugging its Output into an appropriate outlet. If the system is generating 220V you simply plug its output plug into a 220v outlet. The power then goes into the circuit box and all other outlets go electrically active.

Turn off the incoming from the Power Company meter.

But if you wanted to make money from your home generating system the output would have to be matched to their system, which could cost some money to do. A single-speed gravity wheel running 24/7 -while you're asleep and everything is turned off for the night but the furnace/heatpump- would likely be making you a livable, 100% sustainable Income.

If there was a battery storage system developed to do so the power could be stored up for a week and released all at one time back into the Main Power Grid... by many millions of individual home-based mini-power plants. There simply -there's that word again- simply no need at all for nuclear power. Millions of homes running millions of small gravity wheels constitutes nuclear power and then some, and yet also develops consumers into being intelligent users.

[CloudSeeder]

Power Companies Stay In Business (as Distributors)

All of which when done would transform the power companies into power distributing companies, arranging times for each mini system to download its stored electricity into their main system. So the Power Companies wouldn't really be put out of business, just have a changed business from generation to distribution of assets, just that this time the Consumers would be making money also. Of course the government would fall in line figuring out ways to tax everybody on all sides of the equation, a little here a little there, but nickel diming all instead of dollar billing so heavily on the Consumer's side.

[Inquorate]

Electricity companies

@ cloudseeder - good point; but try telling that to the oil companies :-)

[CloudSeeder]

Not every corporation is operating like they have lug nuts for brains. They have families too. They listen when you think they aren't listening. Keep working.

[Peter Lindemann]

Not So Fast...

But you're going to love the amount of torque about 2 kilos is able to deliver.

YouTube - wheel experiments

This video is a must-see

Love and light

Inquorate,

Excellent experiment. This is what I was saying in Post #314, we need more fundamental data. But I believe you may be jumping to a premature conclusion. So, the question is: What is the deciding factor in determining the direction of the thrust vector: 1) the position of the bumper, or 2) the direction of the pendulum's swing?

This is exactly WHY I asked those questions in Post #314. We still need more DATA from basic experiments like this before we try to design the wheel. Your new design looks like it will work, but it has the wheel turning against both the centrifugal force and the gravity imbalance. This will produce severe limitations as the weights increase and the speed goes up.

I have a question that may be important to determine. Is there ANY location of the bumper that will produce a downward thrust when the pendulum swings OUT? Clearly, your early results are negative in this regard, but since we still don't understand EXACTLY what conditions generate the thrust vector and what conditions AIM it, it is still too early to design a wheel that takes best advantage of this drive mechanism, IMHO.

The experiments you are doing right now are monumentally important, but I believe we need more data.

If you don't mind, I would like you to try moving the bumper to a location below the pivot point that intercepts the pendulum swinging OUTWARD before it reaches a 90 degree angle with the lever arm.

Thanks.

Peter

[Peter Lindemann]

My Objectives

Cloudseeder,

My personal preference is that this thread stays focused on the science of discovering what makes this technology work. Discussions about corporations, utility policy, and the various possible applications, function as a distraction to those working on the science and the experimental process.

While these are worthy topics, I would prefer it if they were discussed in a different thread, so this one can focus on the SCIENCE.

My objective in this project is to "help us all figure out SOMETHING that actually works"! I don't care who's design succeeds, but that we all learn it together.

Up until two weeks ago, I believed that Centrifugal Force was the most powerful driver that the wheel could harness. Inquorate's experiments have demonstrated that the hammer impact (direct transfer of momentum) is an even more powerful force, available to drive the wheel. To the best of my knowledge, NO ONE has ever discussed this possible method of driving the wheel, anywhere in the literature. I believe it is a tremendous development.

It proves, again, that experiment, not theory, is the primary impulse in the scientific process! I just think the thread will be easier for others to follow if we stay focused on the science.

Thanks,

Peter

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Which design are you building Mike?
I have also decided to build a wheel based on a cam instead of the pendulum. Since Ben is already building a pendulum wheel, this will give us another perspective.
The theory will be basically the same, only I'm using sliders with a weight attached instead of a free swing. I'm also trying to find a configuration which will work with the centrifugal rig I have (If it works with gravity, it'll work on a centrifuge).
Pendulums don't really lend themselves to a high speed rotation.

Cheers,

Ted

Hi ted, I am doing my design with a few things incorporated so as I can alter the confg: and try other things as well, here is where I am at the moment


Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

food for thought

I had to reduce the quality of the pics as my camera is 10.2mp and each poto takes more than 4mb so they would not load, but I think you can see, but not my usual quality.

I have found out some interesting things, a minimum radius of the wheel when extended must be 50cm there is a big relation of circumference to force available to do other work and also degrees of attack when using cams.

Question, what if we get very close to a machine working, it only needs a little extra energy to complete the circle, and so we put that extra energy, say e.g. 1 joule, I wonder if we could have an over unity situation? and run a gen to supply that energy plus.

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

another photo

Takes time to reduce these photos

Mike

[Ted Ewert]

Hi ted, I am doing my design with a few things incorporated so as I can alter the confg: and try other things as well, here is where I am at the moment


Mike

Nice work Mike. What are you going to do for a frame?
I'm using sliders very similar to the ones you have. I'm mounting them on a wooden wheel which will be sandwiched between a couple of planks that I can mount my cam on.
I built a little form and poured some 1 lb lead weights yesterday. I poured them in a puck shape with a threaded coupler in the middle for mounting. I'm trying to keep the distance between the slider and the cam to a minimum for stability. I'm at less than two inches right now.
I'll post some pics when I get it assembled.

Ted

[Inquorate]

Pendulum lever tests

The angle that the pendulum's swing is interrupted doesn't change the direction of the force. However, if positioned just after the pendulum's maximum kinetic energy point, maximum thrust seems to be conveyed. And it doesn't seem to matter how far the rubber ball is from the pendulum's axis, but I only experimented with 2 to ten centimeter placement.
When the pendulum is swinging under the lever, and If the weight/ pendulum is swinging in toward the wheel's axis, it will transfer as downward torque. If the pendulum is swinging away from the wheel's axis, it will turn into upward torque.

But when the pendulum is above the axis the torque is in the opposite direction; pendulum falling out will create down torque, pendulum falling in will create upward torque.

YouTube - pendulum to wheel torque directions

It's quite counter-intuitive, and I'm waiting for inspiration from my subconscious mind...