The Mechanical Engine

[Inquorate]

Sharing a ''hey that's funny'' moment

With the setup I posted previously, #429, I was playing around without having made a latch - release - pendulum - trigger, to maybe find the best trigger point to release the pendulum at so it hits the bottom of the rubber ball. (It has to be adjustable due to rotational speed changes of the wheel vs the time it takes for the pendulum to swing out).

I have the rubber ball on a vertical length of wood firmly attached to the base/frame of the wheel.

Now what happened was that I misjudged the timing of the pendulum's release, and the bearing was askew in it's seat at the top of the pendulum; it bounced off the back and side of the stationary ball.

The pendulum's bearing shifted in it's seat again and the pendulum hit the edge of the wheel, then rebounded into the length of wood holding the rubber ball.

I was watching this happen and hoping the araldite glue holding on the weights would cope with the strain of the hard impacts as it ricocheted across the gap between the wheel and the length of wood.

When I went to inspect the damage (minimal even though it made a hell of a racket) I noticed I'd reached over my knees.

The pendulum had made it to the ground.

// the conclusion? - put the rubber ball on either side of the pendulum, have it bouncing between a decreasing gap, one wall of which is the wheel itself?

Time for more experiments.

[Ted Ewert]

With the setup I posted previously, #429, I was playing around without having made a latch - release - pendulum - trigger, to maybe find the best trigger point to release the pendulum at so it hits the bottom of the rubber ball. (It has to be adjustable due to rotational speed changes of the wheel vs the time it takes for the pendulum to swing out).

I have the rubber ball on a vertical length of wood firmly attached to the base/frame of the wheel.

Now what happened was that I misjudged the timing of the pendulum's release, and the bearing was askew in it's seat at the top of the pendulum; it bounced off the back and side of the stationary ball.

The pendulum's bearing shifted in it's seat again and the pendulum hit the edge of the wheel, then rebounded into the length of wood holding the rubber ball.

I was watching this happen and hoping the araldite glue holding on the weights would cope with the strain of the hard impacts as it ricocheted across the gap between the wheel and the length of wood.

When I went to inspect the damage (minimal even though it made a hell of a racket) I noticed I'd reached over my knees.

The pendulum had made it to the ground.

// the conclusion? - put the rubber ball on either side of the pendulum, have it bouncing between a decreasing gap, one wall of which is the wheel itself?

Time for more experiments.

How does it get back to the wheel? I agree that the more time the weight can spend outside the center of balance, the better. But, it still has to be recovered with a minimum of energy.
Have you tried just the pendulum swinging out and back without hitting anything? I still think this might be our simplest solution.

Cheers,

Ted

[sucahyo]

SMy design clearly shows significant weights on the pendulums, and a mechanism that allows only a SINGLE SWING per pendulum per revolution. My latch mechanisms ride on a cam and are spring loaded against a STOP, to simply release the pendulum at the proper moment and then catch it again at its highest possible position on the first return swing.

Your animation shows a design with unweighted pendulums, swinging multiple times per release, and a latch mechanism that is spring loaded to bounce freely and latch randomly on the opposite side of the wheel. This operation is totally unrelated to any design I have proposed.

Ok, I will change that video title. Forgive me, I do that to honour you, I don't realize that it can have different meaning.

The weight of each pendulum is 10000Kg. the wheel weight is 1000000Kg. latch mechanism weight is 10Kg. I don't add ball or such because weigth value can be entered. I think that value is heavy enough. The point where the pendulum impacted has elastic value of 1, same as 100% spring without restriction, this replace the spring stop which is harder to simulate. The pendulum also has this elastic value set to 1, which is the reason the pendulum at the left keep jitter. Spring has to be added to the latch because it would fall and thus release the pendulum when up side down.

The latch is at least 50% longer than your design, since the pendulum can only swing back a little even if I use 100% springingness. Using about the same angle as your drawing, the pendulum do not return much.

Also from Ben's video which show pendulum hitting a stopper, stopping a pendulum moving in tangen to the right will make the right side want to go up. If wheel currently turning right, it will try to turn left when hitting.

I tried allowing only one swing previously, the energy of this one swing can only move the wheel a little and then start turning to opposite direction. But I will try it again. I will pm the result if you don't mind. Edit: The wheel try to rotate left after one swing is captured.


About your opinion about WM2D license, there are a free way to use it. You can save but you still can import. To save your work, do the design in QCAD, a powerfull 2D precision that is free, this app will even provide much better tool than WM2D. To make video, use any freeware screen capture like fraps freeware version. Irfan view can also take second snapshot too. The reason I post this software is anyone can just use the free version and use QCAD to build the model.

Have you tried just the pendulum swinging out and back without hitting anything? I still think this might be our simplest solution.

I think this make left or right side can have equal power. In simulation, if wheel turning right, the pendulum at the left will swing more than right, force the wheel to change to turning left.

[Inquorate]

Just pendulum swing

If the period of the swing (placement of the weight on the pendulum) is set right, the wheel will just rock back and forward. Or, it will move the wheel clockwise or anti-clockwise.

BUT

Not enough to overcome lifting the weight so that it can 'fall' again.

Hence trying to harness torque or centrifugal force of the pendulum.

// I've just now wondered what would happen if the pendulum was on a spring? Would that make a weight trace an elliptical path, and if so, what would happen?

-- I had a duh! moment too: I've been mistakenly thinking for a while that if a wheel doesn't work with 4 arms, it may work with 8. Not so.

If an arm with two pendulums won't work, then neither will the principle on a wheel.

Love and light

[Inquorate]

Pendulums returning

I figured why return the pendulum when it costs us energy to do that? What if we just displace it momentarily before we put it to work?

Would that cost less? Dunno.

I need to try heavier weights. See how big the difference is in centrifugal force per unit weight.

[CloudSeeder]

Heavier Weights? or, More Pendulum Radius??

@Inquorate: If you get a model built and then decide to increase pendulum weights, you might get more effect by extending pendulums farther from hub. It might pose less work time to do that than switching out every pendulum in the system... plus keeping costs down.

[CloudSeeder]

Everybody seems in agreement that this is a process of discovery so maybe I shouldn't discourage trying heavier weights. By all means proceed, and bear the cost as you are able. I watched a guy's device on YouTube once, using magnets arranged around a cylinder. He made them starting out close together in two lines that gradually got farther apart, and it did work.

With pendulums & weights I believe a Gravity Wheel can do much the same thing, except by using a heavy weight then a lesser medium weight and a lighter weight as the device spins. Another thing might work is having the "action" deliberately more to one side and a counterbalance weight on the opposite side.

Two evenings ago I came up with yet another GW design, and yeah, totally different from all the others we have which by my count now totals 8 Gravity Wheels all different process. I have started making models of that one and another, and it's sort of funny what I am finding out... is that many of them use designs similar to designs already used in other systems that do not use Gravity.

This last one is a takeoff on the centrifugal advance weight system used in earlier car distributors. So soon as my insurance company cuts me the surrender check I'll be working on it and the other one first. The other one looks amazingly like a throwing star... and that's exactly what these engines are going to do => throwing star the opponent.

[CloudSeeder]

Gravity is like Karate? Jiu-Jitsu?

Gravity. Everybody I have ever read who has studied gravity... they all say it's actually a very weak force. So the way to increase the force is karate chop wood board blistering speed. Speed magnifies force. So successful Gravity Wheels are basically a hot potato juggling contest. You catch it, milk it and Jiu-Jitsu get rid of it as fast as you can, passing it to the next process, beating the inertia of the wheel and also the various frictions, both of which want the wheel to stop.

Friction can be reduced but basically is a constant, just as the inertia in any given design is also a constant, yet Gravity is a constant in our favor, so basically what we have is a battle of constants. This has all been to me a very exciting endeavor, and watching each of you achieve the same result from so many different designs -and variations of those designs- has been the best movie I have watched since I don't know when.

I have to admit I always thought pendulum energy just wasn't enough but with some clever work, it is.

[Ted Ewert]

Here is my latest, and last for now, iteration of the mechanical wheel. This one has the weights sliding almost horizontally, which worked better than vertically. Even though this wheel didn't work, it showed me what is needed.



I am thinking that two forces are needed to make this wheel work. We have the force of gravity, but we need another force @ 90 degrees to move the weights (didn't you mention this Peter?). The pendulum does this naturally, and is the only simple mechanism I have any confidence in anymore.
The next alternative step would be to take some of the rotational force and use it, through conversion or mechanism, to propel the weight into an unbalanced position. This is what I believe Bob Kostoff does in his device. He takes some of the rotational energy and uses it to propel his weight from one side of his lever to the other. He probably does this as close to horizontal as possible, which would use a minimum of energy.
Velocity alone, or unbalance positioning alone, won't make a wheel turn. Both have to be used together. The pendulum uses velocity to create an unbalanced condition, then uses that same velocity to reset itself.
In my centrifugal engine, I already have two forces @ 90 degrees to each other: rotation and centrifugal force. I'm going to remount the whole thing in a horizontal aspect, and use a compound lever on the planetary pivots to try and take advantage of these two forces.
I think the mechanical engine is a great learning tool, but it's capacity for producing prodigious amounts of power is rather limited. One would have to build a massive wheel to run even a small house. However the concepts can be applied to a more active mechanism to produce some serious power. I think the centrifugal engine has a lot of potential. Even better than that I think is a turbine using these principals. Using water or oil to act as a mass has a lot of advantages that mechanical weights lack. I have plans for one of those too.

Cheers,

Ted

[CloudSeeder]

@Ted: I'm not sure there'd be much of a future for you in turbine engines Ted. They seem to be making plenty of progress already => Reaction Engines Limited :: Space Propulsion Systems Their new spaceship is due to come off the assembly line in 10 years. Don't anyone get excited over all their pictures. It just looks like a V-2 rocket. It really isn't one. It's only for peaceful purposes.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Pendulum cam mover

@ Ted

Hi Ted and all, back yesterday but have had no time to catch up untill now. I have roughed out a system of moving the weight at the 5 o´clock position without using a lot of energy and that is a pendulum which is both top and bottom loaded, thanks cloudseeder, it was you that first mentioned top and bottom loaded pendulums. This all takes place at around the 5-6 position and most of the energy is from the pendulum movement except for the lost energy in the pendulum which is made up with a link system powered at the 2-3 position. I hope to have a diagram done tonight and so I will post it when it is finished, it is really so simple, I do not know why I had not thought of it before

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Rough diagram

My rough quick drawing of the pendulum cam assisted by lever and wire at 2-3 o´clock so as it will swing back to pick up the next wheel weight.

Mike

[CloudSeeder]

@Michael:

"it is really so simple, I do not know why I had not thought of it before."

I've been running into the same thing Michael. Glad you had a use for the extra weight idea after your trip. Breaks are nice.

[marxist]

My rough quick drawing of the pendulum cam assisted by lever and wire at 2-3 o´clock so as it will swing back to pick up the next wheel weight.

Mike

Hi Mike,
I have seen your sketch, but I can not understand the mechanism.
Please could you explain what you think will happen with cause and effect, kind of step by step for a real dummy?
Is it going to go round clockwise?

Thanks.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

How it is supposed to work

Hi Mike,
I have seen your sketch, but I can not understand the mechanism.
Please could you explain what you think will happen with cause and effect, kind of step by step for a real dummy?
Is it going to go round clockwise?

Thanks.

Hi Marxist
The wheel goes clock wise, there are two wheels at each spoke, the outer is a weighted wheel and the inner smaller is only for the top cam guide at 12 to 3 o´clock. Each opposite pair of wheels are connected to their opposite partners and move in and out on bearing sliders so as to change the weight at the circumference. At the bottom,5-6 o´clock, there is a double ended pendulum, the top of which is shaped to take the outer weight wheels as they pass by. The action of this pendulum lever is such that it raises the wheel and so also its opposite pair where the small cam wheel engages on the cam at 12-3. At the moment I do not know if I will need the linkage from a lever at around 2 and down to the pendulum to supply the expended energy, so as the pendulum returns to a position so as to pick up the next wheel. I am thinking that it will not be needed as the energy of release just before 6 should be sufficient for the pendulum to return for the following up wheel. The spoke with the wheel must have an angle with the cam of at least 91 degrees to give the wheel barrow effect

Mike