The Mechanical Engine

[marxist]

credit squeeze

Hi CloudSeeder,

thank you for thinking along with me.

I sent you a short vid of the starting sequence of the simulation so that you can see what's happenin'.
Note that the initial state of the mechanism is balanced, yet unstable (unstable equilibrium).
Can't publish the link as I don't have enough bandwidth.

...There appears to be a major difference between a human walking alternating one side then the other versus the device you show lifting both sides at the same time. ...

I will try to clarify.
Walking as I understand it, means squeezing up the body or in other words squeezing up the body's center of mass using the knees as a leverage system. It is noteworthy that this squeezing is propelled by the weight of (parts of) the body itself. Then let the body fall forward onto what can be called the front leg (which was the back leg, just split seconds before).

What you describe as "lifting both sides" is what I call "lifting the body's center of mass".
Soon afterwards the body will fall forward which will cause the wheel to spin, and after having spun 180° or half a turn, the center of mass needs to be squeezed upward again.

...So your further drawing looks like you made an upside down mirror image...

Yes. I drew it like that, because after the initial half turn I want to find the mechanism in a setup and situation identical to the initial state, so that the same movement will happen again (squeezing upward and falling) and "start over".

PS Instead of employing two mirror images offset by 180°, as I drew it up, it might be better to have three identical copies offset by 120° over the wheel.

And one more thing to add: In the complete mirrored configuration as depicted in my previous posting, there are 4 (four) knees. This includes 4 weights (2 green in the top half plus their two mirror images in the lower half). And all 4 act on the body, all 4 contributing to the upward propulsion.

Again, to stress it: NONE of the 2 green weights plus their 2 mirror images, none of those 4 pull the body down. ALL 4 propel the body upward.
This is also and again true if you turn the wheel 180° (i.e. upside down).

[CloudSeeder]

Very Intriguing

To Marxist: You are duplicating parts of the body skeleton but you aren't duplicating other things, such as that the muscles have to squeeze (action) to perform hydraulic-caused motion (the reaction).

Your system does move but fails to achieve continuous repetitive movement. You have yet to duplicate the fluidity drive that precedes the movement.

Someone here -I apologize for forgetting exactly who- keeps mentioning a sliding weight bar. Perhaps you could place one at a 5-10 degree advance of the device's motion it already has, a lead-in motion. I don't think the bar has to be real heavy but when it slides to the right it changes the Center of Gravity to mimic the falling motion our body does to walk.

However, without muscles to bring the bar back to center immediately after it bounces the center of gravity briefly off you need some kind of counterweight OR counterweight action to reverse kick it. Right off the cuff I would suggest the bar be attached to a spinning cam not permanently set in a defined slide.

In short, you did great work constructing the obvious half of the human-mimicking system. Once you finish mimicking the rest, less-obvious system that goes with it you might have that sucker running real fast.

Using 3 as they are wouldn't help you. I'll check what you sent me and comment further if anything pops up.

[CloudSeeder]

Hello Marxist: If you had a sliding bar run by some version of SkyWatcher's reversed wheel (attached to a pivot point on the wheel) would add some extra inertia motion to your system... The motion of the bar would then be somewhat similar to the action we see in an elliptical stepper at the gym.

I think you have this thing signed sealed and almost ready to deliver. I plan a website to be up by the end of next month so if you have it done and running sometime I'd like a video to show it. I think the page design will be my own devices in boxes down the left side and yours and others down the right side. Clicking on any one of the videos, as we have it planned to be now, will put a full video in a center box.

That's the plan so far. I'll have to get back on the dimensions of the boxes. We haven't got that advanced along to know just yet.

[CloudSeeder]

... a double elliptical in your application, Marxist. Good work!

[Inquorate]

Modernizing the wheel?

I haven't had any time to experiment or build since I posted my last video, which kinda sucks, BUT.. It's given me time to think.

We know that the veljko oscillator gives an amplification of energy using gravity, and I know the pendulum can be rigged with a magnet, and be pushed by a coil..

Been there, done that.

What if a coil were used to push the pendulum out to the right as it passes 12o'clock??

Would there be a net gain if the wheel is rigged up to a generator?

So, using a reed switch, a transistor, some neo magnets, a battery, a generator and a coil, I'm going to see once and for all if gravity can be harnessed and used to create electricity.

Love and light

[Ted Ewert]

I haven't had any time to experiment or build since I posted my last video, which kinda sucks, BUT.. It's given me time to think.

We know that the veljko oscillator gives an amplification of energy using gravity, and I know the pendulum can be rigged with a magnet, and be pushed by a coil..

Been there, done that.

What if a coil were used to push the pendulum out to the right as it passes 12o'clock??

Would there be a net gain if the wheel is rigged up to a generator?

So, using a reed switch, a transistor, some neo magnets, a battery, a generator and a coil, I'm going to see once and for all if gravity can be harnessed and used to create electricity.

Love and light

I've thought of this often. I was also thinking of transferring a single weight from around 8 o'clock to around 2 o'clock using a loaded spring or a Hilden Brand type coil.
IMHO, this has a much better chance of developing some usable power than a strictly mechanical solution.

Ted

[Mark]

Hi Inquorate

Been waiting to see more on your project, sorry you've been to busy. I have an idea for a different design and was wondering if you could answere a question. If your wheel or horizontal arm was balanced with weights on both ends and the weight fell lets say on the right side 6 inches or so would that drive the wheel clockwise or would it first move counter clockwise when the weight was dropped and then just balance back out? If it drives the wheel clockwise I may have an idea that may work. The weight can reload to its original position without a hard drop. Similar to Teds sliding weights but without the hammer effect to reload the weight.

[Inquorate]

Mark

I haven't tried a free falling weight, BUT with a falling pendulum weight I have found a big conversion to torque when the weight impacts a spring or rubber ball.

HOWEVER it's generally been less than the cost of lifting the weight again..

But I'd love to be proved wrong

[CloudSeeder]

Good day Inquorate: Well, I have no desire to "prove you wrong" but any wheel is only so large a diameter. A pendulum is only dropping for a fractional distance compared to the circumference of the wheel, so while a pendulum system should work it's still working over a short distance. To me that should mean any pendulum-using system is likely going to have a higher success rate with heavier weights, just as Ted Ewert seems to agree.

Lighter weights or falling balls have to fall a longer distance -more of the circumference- to make up for having a reduced weight. And the Set of {possible answers} for each system has outer limits to fall between, which we are all in the process of trying to define.

By using a top-weight on pendulums you can have that added weight added to the bottom pendulum itself without sacrificing *** pendulum speed. imho. However, I do foresee a problem making the pendulums heavier. I think to do that there will have to be fewer pendulums, probably 1, 2 or 3, + weights opposite them to balance.

Not necessarily directly opposite. I would suggest having two pendulums approximately 90-110 degrees apart on the circle with opposing weights. This spreading out of the weight would allow the first pendulum to clear 12 o'clock... at which time its weight plus the weight of the opposing weight might add up to enough Total Weight to pull the #2 pendulum also past 12 o'clock.

The "opposing weight" might benefit add'l input by being elevated a bit outside the diameter of the wheel rim, a raised weight for its leverage power. By using the added Leverage the opposing weight could actually be lighter.

[marxist]

shifting weight too early

Hi,
I am trying to improve the "squeezing upward" effect.
I am presently working a lot with the simulation program but I have a little bit of background with actual builds for which I mostly use(d) a bicycle wheel as the basic component.
When doing simulations by PC I try to use realistic numbers for the weights and sizes but have switched to a relatively large wheel diameter.
In the "turtle setup" which I presented in posting #483 and which did not go round, the dimensions and weights were as follows:
Wheel diameter ca. 1.9 m ();
main weights:
each "green" weight 10 kg
each "head/tail" 3 kg.

In the meantime, I have made certain improvements and want to present my latest simulated setup - which still does not go round. The green squeezing weights are now down to 6.5 kg each and the orange/yellow squeezed weights (representing the torso) are 1 kg each.

Note that the two mirrored squeezing mechanisms are mounted to the wheel by means of six pin-joints, indicated in red. So the red dots represent the only points, where the mechanism(s) have contact with the wheel. Apart from that the wheel/drum also has a rim which acts as a stopper for the green weights at certain times during the cycle.

If you have a chance to run the sim
(wm2d file can be downloaded from here)
you will see two effects which I feel are significant, namely:
1) The starting from an equilibrium position, i.e. the torso gets lifted up under the pressure/squeeze exerted by the green weights. The fact of the body getting lifted causes the wheel to start spinning.
2) In the end the torso will be squeezed over to the other side (which sounds good) but unfortunately this seems to not happen at the right time. I don't know if it happens too early or too late.
You can find the videos of my sims here:
YouTube - zoanthropos's Channel

So next I will try to find a way to prevent the torso getting squeezed to the opposite site too early.

[CloudSeeder]

@Marxist: My immediate take on your last effort is that you are keeping the weights inside the rim and maybe that won't work so good. You don't achieve enough leverage staying inside the rim, looks like. You might could make it with that limitation if there was sufficient Speed.

A Gravity Wheel has to have a certain disrespect for control. Your device is full of control. You need to have something going crazy on the downward side that isn't happening on the upward-mobile side.

Try moving the top red dot-point over 1-3 degrees and the bottom red dot-point in the same direction by the same amount, increasing the lengths of some rods and decreasing the others on the opposite side. Then give it a spin. It should start bobbing its "head" as it comes up, tossing extra head weight over & outward to the right.

Like walking, the head needs to lean in the direction of the step, "falling" forward.

YouTube is overbooked with inventions.

[Inquorate]

Shifting resonance

I've noticed quite by accident that the energy in the pendulum's swing can at 6 o'clock transfer itself to the pendulum at 12o'clock.

When I get time, I will make the lever heavier and rig up the lever with a (quite novel) string mechanism that allows full 360¤ pendulum rotation, which will pull the pendulum in to the centre at about 7 o'clock.

YouTube - shifting resonance in pendulum's swing

Love and light

[CloudSeeder]

Trick weightlifting bar from Joe Weider International?

Inquorate Rules!: hahaha Did you use a trick weightlifting bar from Joe Weider International? Looks like you found the sweet spot! Now you just need to tie it into a windmill for the energy grant money. The weights cancel each other out -AS WEIGHTS- but the right side is outputting more pendulum energy. Whew, I like it. I bought parts for one of mine yesterday but you left em in a pile when the gate opened.

Good Work Inq Man!!! Spin Up, Spin Down, make that rascal honky tonk all around.

[Inquorate]

Don't get too excited

It's not self - running. Though it does turn a good while longer than without the swinging pendulum.

Got me beat why the energy transfers to the top pendulum though.

[CloudSeeder]

At the bottom -and also coming up the left side- it has potential energy that is being built up til it maximizes at the top. Since the swinging motion is still going it is once again able to shift into kinetic energy at work. What your device is doing is kinetic in two ways not just "spinning the wheel". You found a sweet spot for the equation.

Sprinkle some dry graphite powder around on the wood wherever wood meets metal and it likely won't stop. Major good work. But when you add the graphite it may call for you to lessen the weights. Make notes of everything you do to it so you never lose what you have so far. In fact, you might want to make a second one and leave the first alone.