Capacitor Discharge charger, without coil

[sucahyo]

This is a bit similar to what boguslaw in http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-charging.html thread. The difference is the source is normal power source and without coil.

This circuit purposes is to charge battery using capacitor charge at frequency as high as possible.

This is based loosely from Tom Bearden design in
20* Bedini


There is also explanation of capacitive discharge in Thomas Henry Moray book "Beyond the lightrays". It explain that if discharging is done at spesific frequency it would add up to previous charging and increase the output.

My short observation result is:
- It would charge the battery very good but it seems it charge normal electricity. Charging performance is better than Tesla switch, better than Joule thief, better than Imhotep RO.
- The transistor would not get hot if 12V source used to charge 12V battery.
- Input current increase proportionally with load / charged part.
- Capacitor voltage is at 11.12V when the charging battery is at 11.08V, source is 11.16V.

Both transistor in the circuit should not turn on at the same time. When 2N3055 turned on the capacitor will be charged. When MJ2955 turned on the capacitor will charge the battery. In theory the battery would only draw current from the capacitor, but in reality it also draw current from the source too.

Maybe what I did is charging the battery directly with source electricity. Maybe the transistor is not capable of switching fast enough and make it just flowing normal electricity at lower amp. The capacitor aid it a little. Any comment?

Edit: circuit diagram fixed

Second version of the circuit charge a lot slower but seems to work as expected? voltage of the charged battery is increasing with very little input amp draw at 0.01A.

Second circuit can also be used to ligth up CFL with the help of car coil. It can output a decent high voltage at secondary part. It also produce long spark as can be seen in this video:
YouTube - Capacitor discharge CFL lighter

[Xenomorph]

I think relay is the way to go, transistors are not absolutely galvanically separated and not as abruptly switching. Also i believe optimization can
be very tedious but needed, trying out many different frequency, capacity combinations.
There is coils in relays however, so that would defy your thread title.

[sucahyo]

Each has it's own draw back I guess. Relay contact sparking is hard to avoid and relay won't reach high frequency. My attempt is to replicate what Moray said about capacitor can have more energy when charge-discharge at very high frequency. I can't build a high frequency switching at the moment, this is why I use transistor.

Moray did his device with transistor. I think we should be able to find a way to make OU device with transistor.

If we can make spark free and high frequency mechanical switch, maybe we can have much much better efficiency. Still waiting for the news from Inquorate which currently trying to build it. Maybe with rotary switch inside oil bath.


Attached is my plan to make a more efficient charger using a coil. It failed. But it would allow the charging part to have higher voltage than source. The only difference from charge battery with cap circuit is I switching the cap charging. Who knows it can make the battery charge better.

I am thinking of charging the battery using capacitor voltage only, so the charging must be done when there is kickback voltage. This must be done at high frequency since the kickback is short lived and normal electricity will flow to the battery after that.

[patmac]

Tesla discoveries can apply here.

Hi guys,

I was re-reading again about Tesla and R. Adams... Tesla suggest that current no flow with voltage about 720 volts, and switching below 100ms, this is compatible with Ed. Gray system, Tube + Motor.

R. Adams appearently, run his motor with harmonic negative 9v, 18v, ...... 117. Using harmonics is possible reduces amp drawing about 50%.

Bearden explains that devices is a collector, catch up free potential from the source without current (he clarifies "in theory"), and collector is discharged on the load. Collector can be a alloy Aluminium + Iron 2%, says is hard get this special allow because Aluminium is melt lower temp than Iron. This special allow has a very higher relaxation time than normal copper. Relax time is about 1 ms on this special alloy, then is possible connect it to the source <1ms time, and swtich off from the source and switch on to the load without current flow.

Another concept about collectors from Bearden is by using a capacitor, this capacitor is a special capacitor because his plates are super rigid, this means no moves by electrostatic charge, that push away the plates; the plates movements generate looses by newton law.

You can use a normal capacitor and possibly get OU with this device but looses by plates movements is present on it.

CONCLUSION....

1) Is possible reduces amp draw by switching below 100 ms?

2) Reduces amp draw by switching <100ms, need high voltage >120?

[Inquorate]

@ patmac

That would make sense to me patmac. Have you read dmonarch's radiant matter thread, Aromaz's joint research thread and my beating Lenz's law thread?

In those threads you will find the theory that predicts what you are saying.

As you are a ceo I don't know how much free time you have, but I recommend reading them.

@Sucahyo, switch info coming this week, i've been busy with life recently - but getting back on top now.

Love and light,
Ben

[darkwizard]

I will try to run an Adams pulse motor from a Bedini solid state using a photo-flash capacitor.

High impedance coils on a high voltage source?

[sucahyo]

@patmac, if the requirement is sub 100 ms then relay can achieve it too. That is 10Hz isn't it?

@Inquorate, I'll be waiting for the news .

@darkwizard, instead of that, how about cutting out power out of a capacitor powered coil? I really curious why I get very thick 20mm spark when I don't get that before using joule thief or single transistor configuration.

I decide to do another coil powered by capacitor circuit. This time I use NPN to switch the coil and PNP to switch the capacitor input. I use 1Amp transformer for coil, and strangely the neon bulb in secondary light up brighter than it ever was, more over it light up only one electrode, indicating the current passing the secondary coil is a DC current.
YouTube - Capacitor discharge charger

The bad thing in this circuit is the input current increase proportionally with recovery part load. Maybe doing this using mechanical switch is better.

edit:
last circuit is what I mean by charging battery with capacitor powered coil

[Xenomorph]

@sucahyo: I appreciate your efforts.
I am wondering for what purpose you are actually using the transformer, if you are looking into charging a battery with a cap as in the Bearden diagram. As your circuit looks right now to me, the battery is mainly charged with radiant spikes from the coil, i don`t see the cap contributing to that too much. Maybe i am wrong, its late, i need to go to bed lol. Maybe you can explain that.

[sucahyo]

I want to charge the battery using coil that is being powered by capacitor. I done experiment with capacitor charging. My result for capacitor charging is a bit discouraging.

If input current is very low (0.01A), the charging seems very very slow. It can charge fast but the input current is very high, and some of the component get very very hot.

I want to see if coil powered by capacitor can give enough radiant spike to charge a battery. The solid state version seems has the same behaviour as previous. So I try relay.

See attachment.

When relay switch is at Normally Close position, the capacitor will be charged. After relay is on and relay switch go to Normally Open position, the capacitor stopped charging and change to discharging. It will discharge to the coil. when the relay is shut off and relay switch go to Normally close position, the current collapse in coil will produce radiant spike that is either being utilized by neon at secondary or charging the battery.

I am thinking that capacitor reduce current in coil and coil will have spike voltage higher than capacitor.

I done building the relay circuit. It draw 0.04A. Charging rate is very slow, maybe because I put neon in the secondary. Currently flashing at 4 Hz. The neon light up decently bright.

Using car coil, this circuit can also light up CFL. Although maybe this is because the spark in relay contact make way for the source battery to power the coil.

It seems my best solid state circuit to charge a battery is still tesla switch circuit.
Edit:
On the second though, battery charged with tesla switch circuit reduce voltage after a while. It still has most of the voltage when charged with capacitor coil.

[sucahyo]

Using two separate timer

My effort so far has been dissapointing. Either the battery charge very slowly or the transistor get hot very fast. And I get different result when I change the transistor to the same brand.

I decide to use different timer. The coil induction timer is in kilo Hertz range which is dumped to a capacitor. The capacitor charge is then dumped to a battery in maybe in every 2 second to give time for the capacitor to collect voltage. Since induction voltage usually higher than source voltage, the capacitor can reach 48Volts (I use 10000μF 50V).

I already build the circuit and will see if the charge in the battery is real or not.

Here is the video:
YouTube - Radiant Oscillator with buffer


The charging seems to have real amp. Measured by amp meter, the battery amp do increase. No self charging fenomena noticed.

Test report:
before turn off:
battery = 11.03V
capacitor = 12.5V average
source = 11.5V

after turning off
battery = 10.83V
capacitor = 10.87V

after half hour
battery = 10.55V

I will measure the amp tomorrow to let the battery settle down the voltage.

[Xenomorph]

i wonder if a super rigid metal plate capacitor would make a difference?
Are these available on the market at all, gotta google for it.

[ren]

check out Bedinis patent for a pulse charger or driving devices with a pulse.

[sucahyo]

i wonder if a super rigid metal plate capacitor would make a difference?
Are these available on the market at all, gotta google for it.

Would that has the same construction as usual capacitor but use tougher dielectric material?


@Ren, I don't realize that there is already patent for this. Thanks . It seems the way to charge the capacitor is different though. I was hoping to get some of radiant energy by collecting spike. I don't use switch to change charging too because the coil collapse frequency is at KHz range and capacitor discharge at seconds range. If I use switch there would be some spike that will be uncaptured.

I wonder why Bearden do not patent spike capturing pulse charger? It allow us to charge higher voltage battery with lower voltage battery by collecting the spike....


Result of the latest circuit:
battery = 10.03V, 4.5 Amp (previously 8.9V 3Amp)

I guess this circuit work.

Since transistor mostly interact with capacitor, it remain cooler than dumping to battery directly. Because the capacitor store higher voltage than source, charging is faster and have higher charging voltage. The part that get hot is resistor and transformer. I cant do anything to transformer, but replacing the resistor with 2watt version solve resistor heating problem.

The best past of this circuit is I will know wether the circuit running or not because the transformer is whistling. Little too loud though, I have to reduce the frequency a little.

I attach the FFT of the circuit using car coil

[Xenomorph]

There is some potential in this i believe.
So you ran into the charging success with the last circuit you posted?
I noticed that you could use a diode after the relay to make sure that the charging battery does not give energy back into the circuit when the relay closes
You could try to put a very high freq in the Mhz range onto the coil and see what happens, there is some 555s that go into the few MHz range. Kind of remotely similar to what Doc Stiffler is doing on his caps.
About the super rigid caps, i think they are outside your budget, they cost between 300 to couple thousand USD.
I ran into this thread:
"this capacitor is not a convencional capacitor electrolitic, is a capacitor with super rigid plates, this plaates no moves when capacitor charge or discharge, The cost of this capacitor is extremely high, about 300 dollars to some thousands dollars, this capacitor charge when you connect on the battery and battery no drawing current." (The free energy in CAPACITOR)
Hmm if that indeed is true, i wanna have such a cap

[sucahyo]

@Xenomorph, the charging is the same as usual coil collapse induction recovery, but at higher rate and higher charging voltage. About adding a diode I already use a diode to direct the induction to the capacitor. I rather afraid an additional diode from capacitor to battery may reduce the capacitor voltage bomb.

Nice idea for trying MHz range. I think if I short the 1000ohm resistor I can get at least 500KHz range. The coil already screaming at current highest frequency. I wonder how loud it would be if I raise the frequency more.

Just tried it, there seems to be a frequency sweet spot, the neon light up brightest at certain frequency. The coil collpase induction voltage sweet spot is higher though.