Healing properties of water

[hhoexclusive]

i have tried again with my little electrolyser i added a bubbler in between the the cup i drink from and the cell for added safety and to minimise risk of water vapour with Hexavalent Chromium entering the drinking water. even though my electrodes are well conditioned that orange gunk gives me the hebe jeebes. my water tastes very clean now before adding the bubbler it had a slight tang. i think it (the water) has the effect mainly because of the extra oxygen passed through the drink not just because of hho. i wont continue with it however i will burn the gas and condense the "new" water for drinking this i think will really work how more intense can this process of purification get!! totaly pulled apart and reformed at massive temperatures.

[sucahyo]

@Bob Smith and dmonarch, doesn't kangen water has the same danger as what rectified mention?

It is scary to think that healthy food can have poisonous content:

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=660#60
You think small companies are better?

There are many supplements beings sold in shops and the internet which are proclaimed to be "healthy" and "anti-aging".. but which in fact are either placebo or even toxic. Such websites will give you information about how the miracle substance works, and that 'scientists' found it 'rejuvenates' you and other BS.

Well it never does what they say.

Perhaps its because I'm a molecular biologist but it's easy to see that the 'scientific' explanation they give doesn't even make a liquor sense, and is just a whole lot of empty talk. But I am still horrified at the ignorance of lifespan extensionists and other supplement addicts.

In many cases I found that such sites even go further than just providing false information, they would even give literature references to non-existent articles from real or made-up journals. In most cases however they only mention the benefit, and leave out all the downsides which where found.

An anti-oxidant as quercetin for instance does indeed provide some SLIGHT protection against the oxidative damage resulting from an infarct, but it also reduces the lifespan of mice GREATLY over a longer period of time. Yet it is still being marketed as lifespan increasing and thousands of people spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars each month buying quercetin and similar toxic chemicals in the illusion it will make them practically live forever.

Even herbal tea's can be poisonous, especially tea's from third world countries and China have repeatedly been found laced with poisonous herbs. Those tea's really aren't made by 10.000 year old magic Budhist monks, whatever the packaging says. They are made by people without a clue of how the right herb looks like, and simply gather whatever herb sort-of looks right, and most of them wouldn't give a rats ass to how many stupid rich foreigners will stuff it because they picked the wrong type of star anise.

Even to this day Aristolochia is repeatedly found in Chinese herbal potions, without being mentioned in the ingredient list. SpringerLink - Journal Article Take a few cups too many of that and your kidneys will shut down and cancer will develop. And it is small time businesses that sell these crap.

No matter how small or large a business, no matter how friendly or professional their appearance, just don't trust anything they have to say. Money will always come first to them.

But I am thinking what if we do it with high voltage around the water. So presummably the HV will electrolized water even without electrode in the water.

@hhoexclusive, I will be glad to hear your next experiment result.

[sucahyo]

My setting

Here is my setup for trying to see if there are any difference. If this really has effect, maybe I could see it in a couple of weeks.

Water is put inside a mobius coil from secondary of radiant oscillator coil. My last radiant oscillator circuit do not have serious heat problem, I can turn it on much longer now.

The water taste seems slightly different, but this may happen just bacause of different room temperature.

[sucahyo]

Kangen water

I decide to find the technical background from electrolysis healing water. Here is what I found.
- The price is high for electrolizer to pay the price of platinum titanium electrode, to avoid metal contaminating the water during electrolysis. As such many product also use thin layer of Platinum which can only last 6 month of normal operation. If the core is not another inert metal, then the core will contaminated water.
- some suggest salt to add chlorine inside the water, but most hydroxy experimenter believe that chlorine is also released in air thus can be dangerously lethal.
- acidic water / oxidized water build at positive electrode said to have good sterilizing effect. Is best to cure exposed injury, fungus in plant, cleaning bactery.
- alkali water / reduced water / hydrogenized water build at negative electrode said to have good boosting effect. Is best for reverse aging, bigger fruit and healthy life.
- some site said bigger electrode is bad, while hydroxy experimenter find it best to use larger surface and use PWM to control the current.
- most of the efefct caused by OH- and H+ in the electrolysis process. hydroxy experimenter mention that H+ and O- also released as gas in small amount in normal electrolysis process, where most is H2 and O2 (can be controlled according to hydroxy patent). May be a separate O2 and H2 output is better.


Document:

Alkaline Ionized Water by Dr. Hayashi

Electrolyzed–Reduced Water Scavenges Active Oxygen Species and Protects DNA from Oxidative Damage

CLINICAL APPLICATIONS OF ELECTROLYZED-REDUCED WATER

Various document about alkaline and acidic water


The rather concerning factor is the use of 0.5%-1% salt, see diagram. It is what have been used in hospital with alkaline water. It produce Chlorine, Ozone gas in positive part, both is a known disinfectant but what if we use them a lot? And NaOH at negative part, is it safe to drink them too?
Envirolyte-Conquest Properties of Water Disinfectants

I found it alarming that many kangen water site promoting chlorine filtering ability of the device while it also producing chlorine since many suggesting salt water. Although envirolyte mention the use of acidic water is 0.5% in public water treatment.

I think using bubbler is safer, although we may need to separate hydrogen and oxygen:
Alkaline Water and ORP Explained

Do you know what pH stands for? It comes from French, and means "per Hydrogen", which is a measure of the amount of Hydrogen in a liquid. Note; we're not talking about the amount of alkalizing or acidifying chemicals in a liquid. No, we're talking about the amount of hydrogen atoms. The chemicals or minerals just react with the water to create hydrogen atoms.

Why is this so important? Hydrogen fuels us. Hydrogen heals us. Hydrogen is our most essential nutrient. Hydrogen provides our life force! And pH equals amount of hydrogen in liquid, so it's a measure, if you like, of available life force in a liquid.

I rather concern to know that pH and ORP can be manipulated easily. pH can manipulatedby increasing cell efficiency or even by using A LOT of salt. more salt = more HCl in acidic water and more NaOH in alkaline water. Obviously it will result on much higher ORP too since it mentioned that ORP is a measure of water voltage. But, is it safe to drink more HCl and NaOH? Not to mention more Cl2. Although some expert would argue that hot shower using tap water would be a lot more dangerous.

[sucahyo]

I search NaOH and Chlorine reference but can't find a good one.

Anyone know what is the danger of drinking NaOH or Chlorine? A goverment link would be nice.

The NaOH link only mention internal organ corrotion. Seems reasonable but isn't in our stomach there is acid powerfull enough to melt metal. I don't find report about people get sick because of drinking NaOH/Lye.

The chlorine info is mostly related to people consume tap water everyday, tap water which use chlorine for disinfectant. How much saturation which considered dangerous is unknown.

Many greenhouse farmer in Japan use it, and I want to build it with iron for testing for personal use for plant. Just a simple dual pipe output, one with positive iron mesh, other with negative iron mesh. Positive output for cleaning up fungi, negative input for watering.

[Jules Tresor]

Drinking NaOH

Hello,
I'm also very iterrested in info on drinking NaOH water ...

I just found little info on NaOH in cooking at wikipedia:
Sodium hydroxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's used in a few common food recipes !

I'm putting Lye/NaOH in my water since a few weeks, to bring the PH up to 9.00
I do regular testing of the PH of my saliva.
I thing on a daily basis I will use PH 8.5 maximum, to be sure not to overload.
I'm interrested in info on medical treatment with high PH water !

The surprising thing is HOW LITTLE NaOH is needed to bring PH up to 9

I buy jar of 10 liters of filtered water (PI energy water) and I have to had only a VERY SMALL flake of NaOH to see the PH go up to 9 !
Something like 1/4 of my fingernail surface. It must be only a few milligrams per 10 liters of water !! (starting water is at PH 6.5)
see picture attached (sorry for quality, handphone camera ...)


So I feel confident to drink this water, because the added amount of NaOH is ridiculous, and very small compared to what they use in the different food processing, even in kitchen/food factory cleaning ...

To fight deases I use MMS on a regular basis, it's just FANTASTIC !
MMS home - Jim Humble - Mineral Miracle - mmsglobe.com

Hope this helps,
MDG

[sucahyo]

It is interesting that you already gain benefit just by adding mixing NaOH with water. I use NaOH for my electrolizer cell, so I know what you mean.

In this site, it mention the pH of 13.4 ........
Irritation factors of sodium hypochlorite solution...[Contact Dermatitis. 1990] - PubMed Result
"However, all solutions induced significant irritation in a volume of 100 microliters. Skin reactions did not show a straight pH dose response, a maximum reaction being seen to the solution containing 0.1% NaOH. Skin surface pH values had increased when monitored immediately after removal of the patch material. However, 24 h later, baseline values were again reached at most sites, demonstrating an efficient buffering capacity of human skin, even after challenge with alkaline solutions of pH 13.4. We suggest that a non-irritant concentration for diagnostic patch testing for allergic contact dermatitis with an aluminum chamber, using 17 microliters to 20 microliters test volume, could be as high as 1% NaOCl and 1% NaOH."

Bio / ion / energizing water is in upstart in here. So I really like to know if NaOH really is dangerous to our body. If it is, I would like to know who said it. So many mention the danger only from it's corrotion property.

I highly suspect that the water being sold is a water from electrolizing/ionizing/alkalizing device. Instead of buying the $100/liter, it would be better if we make or buy a $1000 electrolizing device which can output any gallon we want. With added benefit of having secondary output of steril water for our bath or external injury or killing fungi.

[sucahyo]

found the keyword

I just found some more reference on NaOH. I have to use word ingest.

Board Message

Poison is all about the acute or chronic dose that you ingest (by mouth, skin absorption, or inhalation). Yes, ingesting NaOH in large quantities is not a good idea, that's why a bottle of Drano has the skull and crossbones symbol on it. However, Drano is a concentrated solution of NaOH. The acid test kit solution is a dilute solution in water and you only use a few milliliters to do the test. Rinse the glass and the NaOH will be simply washed down the drain. Very unlikely that you'll reach either the acute or chronic toxic dose (as long as you don't start doing straight shots of the test kit solution).

Keep in mind that oxygen is incredibly important to life on earth as 21% of the atmosphere, but a pure 100% atmosphere is deadly. Warfarin was originally developed as rat poison, but in small, precisely controlled doses is used as a blood anti-coagulant to treat heart attacks and blood clots in humans.

http://web.grcc.edu/Pr/msds/Biology/...dt%20Baker.txt

First Aid Measures
- Inhalation:
Remove to fresh air. Get medical attention for any breathing difficulty.
- Ingestion:
If swallowed, DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. Give large quantities of water. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get medical attention immediately.
- Skin Contact:
Immediately flush skin with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Call a physician, immediately. Wash clothing before reuse.
- Eye Contact:
Immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, lifting lower and upper eyelids occasionally. Get medical attention immediately.

Sodium hydroxide can be a boon or a bane.(EDITORIAL)(Editorial) - Telegram & Gazette (Worcester, MA) | Encyclopedia.com

The announcement yesterday that Spencer inadvertently had added an excessive dose of sodium hydroxide (NaOH) to its drinking water sent us scurrying to the reference books.

Turns out, the stuff is a standard additive used to make water potable, among other things balancing the acidity of water taken from wells or reservoirs.

But it's nothing to fool with. Its Material Safety Data Sheet warns that in high concentration it is extremely poisonous and corrosive. Also known as lye or caustic soda, it is used not only in drinking ...

Community exposure to sodium hydroxide in a public water supply. | Full text City Life articles from leading publications on ArticleArchives.com.

The incident occurred in a small city located in northeastern Texas. According to the 1990 census, the population of this city is approximately 12,000 (7). The city has one hospital. The municipal water supply consists of a conventional surface water treatment plant and a distribution system that supplies treated water to residents in the city and outlying rural areas. The treatment plant includes facilities for chemical feed, rapid mixing, flocculation, clarification, filtration, disinfection, and clearwell (finished-water) storage. One of the chemicals used in the water treatment process is liquid sodium hydroxide.

On the Sunday morning of June 13, 1993, several city residents arrived at the hospital emergency department complaining of burns resulting from contact with the municipal drinking water. The hospital staff notified city officials, who immediately initiated efforts to identify and resolve the problem. The water in the clearwell storage at the treatment plant and in various parts of the distribution system was analyzed and found to have a pH of approximately 12.0. Residents were warned about the problem through local radio and television announcements and were instructed to avoid contact with the water until further notice. Acceptable water conditions were reestablished at the treatment plant within several hours. Flushing and testing of the distribution system continued for two days, however, before pH levels of less than 10.0 were obtained throughout the distribution system and residents were notified that the water was safe.

Conclusion:
NaOH is safe if pH is under 10.0 .

For Chlorine, the envirolite which supplies industrial water treatment unit said that the chlorine in acid water is 1/1000 normal chlorine found in water treatment plant.
HEALTH EFFECTS OF CHLORINE IN DRINKING WATER

[Dave45]

what about silver electrodes isnt that whats used to make colloidal silver

[sucahyo]

how safe is colloidal silver?

I can't find a safe level of colloidal silver, is it really safe? All that I find when I google silver ingest is warning:

Systemic argyria associated with ingestion of colloidal silver

Over the last few decades, there have been several reported problems associated with silver ingestion, including intestinal ulcers and argyria. With the availability of more effective pharmacologic alternatives, physician-directed use of silver-containing products has significantly declined. However, recently many health-food manufacturers have promoted colloidal-silver-based products as cure-alls. With the proliferation of the Internet, it has become much easier for these manufacturers to market their products to unsuspecting consumers using unsubstantiated claims of effectiveness against major illnesses such as AIDS, cancer, arthritis, and infectious diseases.

Colloidal Silver: Risk Without Benefit

In 1995, an herbal distributor named Leslie Taylor tested nine commonly marketed colloidal silver products available at health-food stores and concluded:
Two of the products were contaminated with microorganisms.
The amount of silver suspended in solution varied from product to product and would gradually decrease over time.
Only five products actually showed antibacterial activity in a laboratory test. To perform the test, she prepared a culture plate with Staphylococcus aureas bacteria, which can cause infections in humans. She then placed a drop from each product on the plate and used disks of two common antibiotics as controls. After eight hours of incubation, she found that bacterial growth had been inhibited around the antibiotics and four of the products.

Of course, the fact that a product inhibits bacteria in a laboratory culture doesn't mean it is effective (or safe) in the human body. In fact, products that kill bacteria in the laboratory would be more likely to cause argyria because they contain more silver ions that are free to deposit in the user's skin.

FDA laboratory studies have found that the amount of silver in some product samples has varied from 15.2% to 124% of the amount listed on the product labels. The amount of silver required to produce argyria is unknown. However, the FDA has concluded that the risk of using silver products exceeds any unsubstantiated benefit [3]. So far, eleven cases of argyria related to silver products have been reported:

other:
Colloidal silver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Argyria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

pro:
SilverFacts.com - Silver in health
SilverFacts.com - Silver safety


If silver is already used so many years ago and many people decide to abandon it I think would eat honey bee home instead of colloidal silver. Propolis is very good anti toxin and recommended.

[amigo]

Funny that nobody mentions that all (how many are there, several?) of the argyria cases came from drinking silver shakes and not colloid sollutions, or from use of "tainted" tap water instead of distilled water in production of colloids.

Bottom line is, people have been drinking colloidal silver for decades, been giving it to their pets as well, and they are still alive and well. Matter a fact probably better than they were before. Animals would not drink it if it was harmful for them, I think they just have a sense for it that humans don't.

Of course, everyone should decide for themselves what they are going to do, and how. If silver colloid is not your thing then it's not the end of the world. All I can say is that it works, from my own personal experience.

[sucahyo]

Funny that nobody mentions that all (how many are there, several?) of the argyria cases came from drinking silver shakes and not colloid sollutions, or from use of "tainted" tap water instead of distilled water in production of colloids.

The second link I post is wrong?

Colloidal Silver: Risk Without Benefit

So far, eleven cases of argyria related to silver products have been reported:
- A 56-year-old man who had sold and used colloidal silver for three years, developed blue/gray discoloration of his fingernails accompanied by a very high blood level of silver [4].
- A married couple who had three years of daily consumption of a drink prepared by administering an electrolytic charge to a bowl of water that contained a silver bar [5].
- Another couple had been taking a silver-containing "dietary supplement" prescribed by a naturopath [5].
- A mentally ill man who had been drinking silver-containing herbal tea for about 10 months [5].
- Stan Jones, Montana's Libertarian Party candidate for the U.S. Senate, who reportedly started taking colloidal silver in 1999 for fear that Y2K disruptions might lead to a shortage of antibiotics. He made his own concoction by electrically two silver wires in a glass of water[6].
- Two men, ages 63 and 76, developed argyria after a year of product use inspired by Internet claims [7].
- A 16-year-old boy developed blue-gray pigmentation of his entire body after ingesting a silver-containing dietary supplement for a year. The product, packaged so that it was identical to bottled water. was touted as a preventive for everyday infections [8].
- A 58-year-old man who treated a presumed kidney infection with a home-brewed colloidal solution 12 times a day for 4 days developed argyria about 4 weeks later [9].
- A 38-year-old man developed argyria after ingesting approximately 16 ounces of 450 ppm colloidal silver three times a day for 10 months to treat his arthritis and other conditions. He made the solution with a simple battery-operated chamber that leached silver from pure silver wire. He had obtained the plans from information on the Internet [10].

The bold part looks pretty much like colloidal silver processing.

About the water, isn't distilled water make electrolysis difficult? or is there suggestion to add NaOH for dissolving silver?

[amigo]

I'm sorry but the reference website (quackwatch) you used is simply not credible, in my humble opinion. While on that subject Wikipedia is the least credible source of anything, but I won't go into a rant about it...

None of those cases you mentioned are detailed in any way. All they say is the final outcome but they do not tell us exactly what those people did, what supplement they took, or how they made their own Colloidal Silver.

I'll sum up the instructions as I digested them from various sources and my own experience over the years:

- Must use pure Silver (not Sterling, pure 99.99%+); obtain the certificate proving purity of your Silver from the seller. Those who don't provide it have something to hide.

- Must use Distilled Water, ideally lab grade, or alternatively home (steam) distilled.

- Particle content of DW should be < 1 ppm (or if any, though I doubt there is 0 ppm DW available - if there is, use a few drops of existing CS as a starter)

- Use clean, glass or plastic - I prefer glass - washed thoroughly, containers for the process and storage. Some use peroxide to rinse of old Silver residue, but I have seen a suggestion of using home ammonia as a better solution, though have not tried it myself. Final rinse would be with the DW you will use for "brewing."

- NEVER EVER add anything else to the DW, or the CS solution, especially not salts. Some people add peroxide, or gatorade afterwards, but I'm against that personally.

- Ideal method of "brewing" is with constant current, constant voltage, constant stirring (some suggest vigorous), slight to moderate heating. Sweet spot voltage is claimed to be 30-40V, current depends on the wet surface of electrodes, but varies depending who you ask, generally in the range of 0.2-0.6mA/sq.inch, with some up to 1mA/sq.inch

- If lacking real testing equipment (Transmission Electron Microscope for imaging the particle size - realistically, who has one at home?) the CS solution has to be clear, or a slight blue tint. Yellow or any other colour suggests larger particle size. Using a laser to check for Tyndall effect is one of the simpler ways of checking for large clusters of particles, too.

- Store in (brown or blue) tinted glass (or plastic) containers away from the Sun. The solution can last for several weeks without diminishing in potency, after the intiail drop within 24 hours. Does not need to be refrigerated.

I guess that sums it up...

[sucahyo]

That is valuable information, thank you .

[Jules Tresor]

Anyway 11 cases among millions regular users would seem quite ridiculous statistically, no ?