Gray Tube Discussion

[Electrotek]

Tesla's High Frequency Charging

ren: Tesla was big on charging a capacitor at a very high frequency, then discharging it at a much lower pulse rate. Why not 80 12V charging pulses to the cap between each pulse of the motor?

[ren]

sounds good to me. Infact I already have something planned to that effect. Multiple pulses to charge a cap/cap bank, which is dumped periodically, but at a lower frequency to the motor or load.

My point to amigo regarding the voltage source was simply meant to be about the matter of convenience.

I do like the Inverter/MOT idea because it is easy. I already have an inverter I was given for free. Its only 300watts however and may not be up to the task. Plus I am a little unsure if the inverter will drive an inductive load as efficiently without serious considerations and calculations. The latter of which I am not the most knowledgeable of.

Then there is the correct hook up of HV out of the inverter.....and the even higher voltages on the secondary of the MOT.

1 step at a time for me for now. Got other promising projects in the works, but I still have plenty of time for learning and experimentation. It would be good if the group could build a simple inverter/MOT/HV circuit that is simple and safe (as safe as it can be) along with hookup and guidelines/safety. No doubt the efficiencies will be average, without ideal components, but its a start.

Regards

[Electrotek]

I like the idea of using MOT's since they're easy to get and come with a cap and a diode which has a realistic voltage rating, without costing a ton. (12 to 15kV) But these transformers pull a lot of power and could overload a small inverter. It might be good to put a 100 watt light bulb in series with one side of the MOT's primary, to limit the current draw. Then plug another bulb into the other socket. This tricks the inverter so it doesn't know the load is inductive. Even with a really long extension cord, I can get full power to something like a drill if I have as many as ten light bulbs pluged in too.

The secondary wire is soldered to the core. I can bolt a wire through the base and it works OK.

For safety, get a dowel rod around a foot long and put a U wire through a hole at the end. Bend this so it will short the terminals of a cap. Always discharge any and every cap after use. Never touch anything when the power is on.

I'm working on a circuit I can post in a day or two.

[tv4free]

"HV capacitive discharge matey." (Best Jack Sparrow voice)


Think about how much amperage is flowing through those power windings when you dump 2Kv+ through that coil. Think about how much stronger that field is going to be. And you collect it for reuse afterwards.


The point being this. There are two ways you can get HV. Low voltage source transformed into HV, or HV source. 2000v worth of 12v would certainly be nice, but lets face it, no one has got the room for 166 batteries in series

Finally, some smart statements on this forum...You are on the right track.

You people out there, you are wondering 15 amps?????
Dang that is a lot, but like Mr.Ren said collect it for reuse afterward... PLUS the MOT wastes 360Watts, my cores are the worst out there, but the motor is still flying, while recharging the battery! More tests to be done later, and posted of course.

[Electrotek]

MOT Circuit?

It's starting to look like a MOT may not be suitable for my test circuit, at least not with an inverter. With a 100 Watt light bulb in series with the primary, it doesn't put out enough voltage to form an arc. With the bulb in series with the secondary, the bulb burns out. Without any limit, the transformer itself starts smoking after several seconds and one of the #12 copper wire electrodes melts. I'll try using a smaller cap than the MOC, but I don't expect to post any favorable results any time soon. It looks like I'm stuck using my NST, with high dollar caps.

I have a few other projects I'm working on and I'm starting to lose interest in the EV Gray system. At least for now.

[ren]

Finally, some smart statements on this forum...You are on the right track.

You people out there, you are wondering 15 amps?????
Dang that is a lot, but like Mr.Ren said collect it for reuse afterward... PLUS the MOT wastes 360Watts, my cores are the worst out there, but the motor is still flying, while recharging the battery! More tests to be done later, and posted of course.

Bear with us Tv, you may find some little gems here and there

Pulling 15 amps is fine, if you can charge 300amp hours worth on the backend. That puts you in the C20 rate. Bear in mind if that 15 amps is measured on the AC part (post inverter) there's a fair chance you are pulling more on the DC side of the inverter.

Like you say, there could be vast improvements made on the transformer. I seem to recall seeing an old picture of Ed's power supply/transformation arrangement, and there was a transformer that looked alot like this one seen on the right hand side. Reminds me somewhat of the transformer from Tesla patent 568177. Page is here that I got it from. Efficient Power Supply Suitable of Inductive Loads -- Engineering Report Ed Gray Patent 4,595,975 Working Drawings

I wonder about the suitability of an inverter to drive an inductive load, from what I have read this is where the trick is going to be.


@ Electrotek, thanks for the info, I might try a few things. Let me know if you have any luck.

[martin]

I'm still thinking. In the Cannady Interview, Gray demonstrated a variety of tools, including a large drill and a small razor, all operating in series, connected to his circuit. Gray stated that he had to supply the power through a long extension cord he had rolled up in a big pile, to keep from blowing out nearby TV's. This sounds like a dampening technique to contain an Electrostatic Pulse. Joseph Hiddink reports that he had to repair several TV's in his neighborhood after setting off such a pulse with his Capacity Changer. (Pat. #4905162).

I think I'll connect all the spiral grids together on one end, with a single input/output connection on the other end, to the outer grid. This will produce a Static Pulse if the relative grid geometries are correct, together with the length of the wire to the load.

This type of energy should power an underwater load, since water is a good insulator for static electricity.

Do you happen to have the correct patent number for this? When I look this up, is comes up as some computer prog. or something.

[Electrotek]

Martin: I tried entering the number in the search field at google.com/patents and it came up allright. Funny thing, this patent has completely dissappeared from my computer. So I downloaded the PDF myself.

[Aaron]

4905162

Please beware of google patents. Many patents have been manipulated - especially schematics so entire lines and other connections are missing. I have seen this over and over. The ones at pat 2 pdf always seem to be complete.

4905162 pulls up some computer related patent...is that the right #?

[martin]

Please beware of google patents. Many patents have been manipulated - especially schematics so entire lines and other connections are missing. I have seen this over and over. The ones at pat 2 pdf always seem to be complete.

4905162 pulls up some computer related patent...is that the right #?

Yip. Evaluation system for determining analogy and symmetric comparison among objects in model-based computation systems. whew.

I found it. #4095162

[martin]

Aaron, do you have a water spark circuit that will rapid fire? Im having trouble locating a circuit that will constantly fire that white/green burst.

[Electrotek]

You can also get this patent at the USPTO site:

US Patent Full-Text Database Number Search

I thought I've been looking at patents which were some how changed. (At Google.) Still, I like this site because it provides key word searches, such as the Inventor's name. It also lists all subsequent patents which referrence a give patent.

With the Patent Office site, images are in TIFF format, so an altenatiff, or similar plug-in is needed.

[Aaron]

easy circuit for effect

Aaron, do you have a water spark circuit that will rapid fire? Im having trouble locating a circuit that will constantly fire that white/green burst.

Hi Martin,

This does it
YouTube - Plasma Ignition - Water Sparkplug Circuit by Peter Lindemann
Schematics are at the end.

You don't need a variac, you can charge the cap straight from the wall through a sufficient bridge and you will want some good resistors. This isn't a radiant charger of course but does the job for testing.

The cap I was using is 47uf and it charges close to 200 if I crank the variac up but 160 is what the wall gives and that is fine. Also, 47uf isn't needed. You can use smaller uf. I'd recommend 5-10uf to get the basic effect.

Use booster caps in parallel with common ground and HV output through diode of course. That way you don't have big capacitance dumping into an ignition coil. You can keep this cap or bank easily with a variac.

This is the quickest easiest way to do it.

The reason I was experimenting with isolating the cap on the primary from the power supply charging the cap was because I wanted to prove that the effect was not because of the power supply being the LV source. It can boost it but isn't the cause.

Anyway, this circuit can easily do 50hz so that is 3000 pulses per minute so with magnets every 120 degrees, that is 1000 rpm, which should be good for these small scale tests.

[lamare]

Engineering report by Gary Magratten

Hi all,

There's an engineering report by Gary Magratten floating around on the web about the Gray tube:

Efficient Power Supply Suitable of Inductive Loads -- Engineering Report Ed Gray Patent 4,595,975 Working Drawings
Efficient Power Supply Suitable For Inductive Loads
Additional Research material supplied by Gary Magratten


This appears to be on of the original Magratten documents, since the author in the PDF says so:

http://www.rafoeg.de/20,Dokumentenar...ient_power.pdf

Anyway: the images in that pdf are of much better quality then those on the links above.

I think the most interesting part is this:

"Circuit Section 6; Low Voltage Switching Circuit.

This circuit creates the short duration [.OOO5 sec.] current pulse necessary for
the formation of the ARC in the CSET. There are many ways to accomplish this.
You can use a TRIODE or a FAST-RECOVERY DIODE.
If you use a fast-recovery diode, you can place mechanical switching in the
circuit line from the positive terminal of the battery to the diode.
If you use a triode, you must control the grid of the triode with a separate
circuit."

This at least gives an idea about what is connected to the triode that is missing in Gray's patents, as pointed out by Peter Lindemann. All signs point to the key to a succesfull replication of the Gray tube being the *timing* of the pulses going trough the rods of the tube.
Magratten talks about pulses of 0.0005 seconds duration (500 usec), about 10 times longer as being reported by Johnson ( http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/MKay5.pdf ), but he also talks about *short* pulses.


Also interesting is the paper TECHNICAL DISCUSSION - ENERGY MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS by Richard Hackenberger, one of Grays engineers:

"Report by Richard Hackenberger at the time he was Ed Gray's Engineer, regarding the EVGray EMA motor and its circuit input-output measurements, scientific basis for the function, and projected development , explaining avalanche power pulse principles in terms of existing models of physics."

Technical Discussion: Energy Management Systems by Richard Hackenberger



Evolution of the E.V. Gray Circuit Topology - By Mark McKay
With insights from Dr. Peter Lindemann and John Bedini
Evolution of the E.V. Gray Circuit Topology -- by Mark McKay



More on the Gray motor/tube:
Latest Developments at the PES Ed Gray Motor Open Sourcing Project


Regards,

-- Arend --

[phi1.62]

The man at the end of "The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity"

Hello,

This is my first post on this forum but I have spent the last few months viewing the posts on the forum, particularly regarding the Ev Gray replication attempts. I was an electric motor repairer and am currently a second year electrical engineering student. I first became interested in free energy when I first heard of Nikola Tesla and since then I have been pursuing as much information as I could on the topic. Eventually, I came across Peter Lindemann's lecture "The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity" which sparked my interest in the Gray circuit. While it seems that the circuit by itself will not generate energy it does share similar characteristics to other free energy devices, such as the use high voltage and frequency electricity and the arrangement of it's metal cylinders, to generate energy.

At the end of Peter Lindemann's lecture "The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity" there is a man named Brian Desborough that says the following to Peter:

First of all I must complement you on your research, you've done an excellent job and I'll think you'll find that Mr Gray's transceiver would have to function at a minimum frequency of 20 Khz in order to split the incoming dipoles, then you could take the electron which would then be coupled with the etheric carrier and then split those. But from my own experiments I find anything less than 20 Khz you can't split the dipoles, but I find once you do the problem then is not generating tremendous energy it's limiting it - you need a really good voltage divider usually because I find my incoming spikes are well over 1000 amps and it gets really frightening.....but definately this kind of circuit is for real.

I tried to find an email address to contact Mr. Desborough as I wanted to know whether he solely used the original circuit to achieve energy production and while he does have a website it states that you cannot contact him. If you're reading this Peter I would appreciate if you tell us if you ever spoke to Mr. Desborough further regarding his research.