Chaos & Order

[dmonarch]

I have noticed that most seem to be in favour of a creation which is ordered and synchronized. This is a nice model and fits in well with most peoples spiritual beliefs however it it not wholely true.
In actual fact creation is both chaotic and ordered, both synchronized and unsynchronized. All these things are happening all at once all around us. The only component which is the dividing line is scale. For example lets say you took a bedini ssg which is self organizing. It is most definitly organized on a local scale however on a larger scale this may not be true. That said though the way in which abrupt moments are a key part of the device suggests that it reaches further out into its surroundings as this how an ordered system bring components of a chaotic system into train.
Damian

[dmonarch]

A different Angle

Tom Bearden in his video on radionics describes how at one moment you could have a gold particle form and then poof its gone, and the next a molecule then poof gone, and finally a living breathing life form and poof gone. He talks about the denisty that matters. The denser the virtual particles the more real it will apear to us.
All this is the same as talking about scope. Scope and denisty are one and the same totally based on perspecitve and the observers current denisty. What may appear dense and very really to a less dense entity will appear vague and unreal to a denser entity. This is exactly what it is like when observing outside of the body, be it astral or other. You are making your conciousness less dense so as to be able to observer the lesser dense and denser and real.
When you take into acount scope the concept of time travel and multple dimensions becomes a very real possibility.

[sucahyo]

Time travel is not possible even for astral body. For us human astral world is closer, thus it is the place which are easiest for us to peek or enter. For astral body time travel is still a (many?) layer ahead, thus the best astral body able to achieve is time peeking.

Similar analogy with energy. The astral energy should be more possible to harvest instead of energy independent of time.

About less dense, I wonder if it is less or more?

About chaotic, do you not belive future prediction? Why would we able to predict future if the future is random? From what I believe there is strong relation of what we do today with what will happen tomorrow. Some prediction may change if we have strong enough will to change it. But ofcourse human will is limited compare to nature's will.

[dmonarch]

Chaos

Hi Sucahyo
I have yet to make up my mind on future prediction, I have yet to find enough information for me to lean either way. I dont know if human will is limited in comparison to nature, once again it comes down to scale.
Chaos and random are two different things. A chaotic system is one that appears random but in actual fact is not, instead just very complex. A random system is has no order to it and is something i doubt exists as everything has an effect on everything else. It would seem impossible isolate one thing from the whole.
I have yet to make a conclusion on the astral body. I have experienced a number of things which are very similar in nature in relation to astral projection and there is a very fine line between the effect and result. If you think that the astral body is a body formed from the virtual particle flux, sure that is possible and have experienced something like that. On the other hand is it really necessary to have an astral body to percieve the astral plane and travel within it. From experience no i would say it is not. However that said I cannot say for sure that what i have experienced is related to the so named astral plane and not in part or entirly a result of delusion. Aleister Crowley and Israel Regardie said it well "just because your are delving into the mystical there is no need to abandom the scientific, it is your compass". If you dont do this you open yourself up to self delusion, dogma, etc.
One of the characteristics of astral projection are being able to move through solid objects. If the astral body was more dense it would not be able to do this.

Time travel is not possible even for astral body. For us human astral world is closer, thus it is the place which are easiest for us to peek or enter. For astral body time travel is still a (many?) layer ahead, thus the best astral body able to achieve is time peeking.

About less dense, I wonder if it is less or more?

About chaotic, do you not belive future prediction? Why would we able to predict future if the future is random? From what I believe there is strong relation of what we do today with what will happen tomorrow. Some prediction may change if we have strong enough will to change it. But off course human will is limited compare to nature's will.

[sucahyo]

@dmonarch,

About chaotic, ok. Chaotic as a sort of unpredictable harmony then.

Future prediction already proven many times, either now or in the past. If you never experience it yet, maybe because you are not compatible with this area. You seems to excel in other area. There is so many branch in psychic ability, so not knowing one thing should not be considered a missing talent.

About astral body, I believe in the existance of spirit, god creation that live in astral, ether, or whatever you name it. They live longer than human and can interact with human. Sometimes human interact with them doing spesific routine or trough spesific item without the human realize it. Some of them pray to god, some of them don't.

There are living thing inside ether, so we should make a differentiation and not assuming that all ether are the same.

To be able to see/experience thing in astral world, some transfer only thought/mind, but some transfer the physical body too. I don't know in what form, but astral world is like different dimension. Maybe like hary potter world. There can be an astral kingdom overlapping with ordinary human house.

As for relation between ether and our atomic world, I still learning. I currently think that we are trying to do here is to make a bridge between our world electricity with ether world "air".

The connection of spirit with free energy is when a device can achieve over unity but has emotion. If this device can not be replicated even if all physics specification is 100% match, it may indicate a spirit help powering the device. Ordinary people will call it over unity, but a shaman will identify who/what make the device move.

[dmonarch]

Astral

Yeah you could say that about chaos. I think it has allot to do with scale though. If you look at a newspaper very closly all you see is meaningless dots. However if you move out further the apparent chaotic dots turns into something recognizable. If you were to take that another step forward and spread the distance out between the dots of the image and overlay the image on top of another image with the dots at the normal spacing you would have how i experience the astral plane. Our physical reality is like the image with the close/dense dots while with the astral the dots are less densly packet. When you tune into the less dense astral plane it seems just as real as the physical but to do so it is necesary for some change to occur in the observer.

Yeah i definitly agree with you on the whole god concept, other entity situation. Probably not in the way most do, none the less i do.

Yeah i would definitly agree with you on overlapping worlds or dimensions.

Tom bearden in his video on radionics has a nice model for bridging the gap between the two understanding.

I dont know about a spirit making overunity. For me it dosnt sit well but who knows.

@dmonarch,

About chaotic, ok. Chaotic as a sort of unpredictable harmony then.

Future prediction already proven many times, either now or in the past. If you never experience it yet, maybe because you are not compatible with this area. You seems to excel in other area. There is so many branch in psychic ability, so not knowing one thing should not be considered a missing talent.

About astral body, I believe in the existance of spirit, god creation that live in astral, ether, or whatever you name it. They live longer than human and can interact with human. Sometimes human interact with them doing spesific routine or trough spesific item without the human realize it. Some of them pray to god, some of them don't.

There are living thing inside ether, so we should make a differentiation and not assuming that all ether are the same.

To be able to see/experience thing in astral world, some transfer only thought/mind, but some transfer the physical body too. I don't know in what form, but astral world is like different dimension. Maybe like hary potter world. There can be an astral kingdom overlapping with ordinary human house.

As for relation between ether and our atomic world, I still learning. I currently think that we are trying to do here is to make a bridge between our world electricity with ether world "air".

The connection of spirit with free energy is when a device can achieve over unity but has emotion. If this device can not be replicated even if all physics specification is 100% match, it may indicate a spirit help powering the device. Ordinary people will call it over unity, but a shaman will identify who/what make the device move.

[sucahyo]

@dmonarch, thanks. I found it weird that when people learn about psychic but they don't learn about the existence of spirit as well. Psychic power can make you hear or even see spirit and yet many don't realize their existence.

What anyone think if you experience being strangled when you half asleep, feel very hot like being rejected when learning different new psychic skill, got whisper without knowing where it came from, etc?

The drawing in ancient civilization or recent show the actual picture of them, and yet many think it is just a simbol. One eye, three eye, dog head, elephant head, horse body, horn, etc, they would only exist in spiritual world since human should not supposed to be that way. Don't you find the similarity of drawing between different remote civilization rather weird? Most people said it is a migration, but migration is not the only way the knowledge transfer between location.

[dmonarch]

Existance

Human nature has allot to do with it. People pick and choose there own little artificial reality as they please whether it goes against common sense or otherwise. A good example is the simple idea that there is other life on other planets. Despite the odds for there being life people will flat out stick with there little reality. Take a look at christians, there is clear evidence that there were dinosaurs and yet they will flat out deny the existance of such evidance with something as whimsicle as its my belief, we follow the book.
There a couple words that have destroyed all common sense and hope for humanity which are "Its my belief", because as soon as someone says that what they are in effect saying is no matter what evidence you bring against what i believe i will still stick with what i believe. Thats just plain insanity and a license to get away with what ever one likes. When it comes to pk there is so much misinformation out there and so many people looking to rip honest seekers off that it is no wonder that the whole pk arena is a mess. People practice things that they have read in a book because the author has some long winded name and has trained in vegas. Most of these people are not only fulling themselves but even worse fulling others and so inhibiting there progress.

I know what you mean about being strangled and hearing little voices, etc. Most of the original disiplines say to treat it as a passing wave and to not treat as the destination which is very true. It is interesting but most of the time its astral rubbish. The little voices are often things people have spoken with great energy be it anger, love, or happiness. If you take it a little bit further you see the scenery as well. It occurs in a mind which is in change where greater possibilites are accepted and open to. Its part of the journey so your doing well

I am not sure about the images

@dmonarch, thanks. I found it weird that when people learn about psychic but they don't learn about the existence of spirit as well. Psychic power can make you hear or even see spirit and yet many don't realize their existence.

What anyone think if you experience being strangled when you half asleep, feel very hot like being rejected when learning different new psychic skill, got whisper without knowing where it came from, etc?

The drawing in ancient civilization or recent show the actual picture of them, and yet many think it is just a simbol. One eye, three eye, dog head, elephant head, horse body, horn, etc, they would only exist in spiritual world since human should not supposed to be that way. Don't you find the similarity of drawing between different remote civilization rather weird? Most people said it is a migration, but migration is not the only way the knowledge transfer between location.

[sucahyo]

@dmonarch, about the image, ask people that can see or ask spirit to show their true form. I think each place has different kind of spirit.

I conclude the picture in ancient drawing are true picture of spirit from friend or family experience that can see them. There are once a TV show in Indonesia (pemburu hantu) where a group of people trying to move spirit to other location, where one of them would draw some of the spirit.

I suggest not to try to see it yourself though. According to my friend, seeing or meeting them need a very strong mind or else you might lost it.