CloudSeeder's Gravity Wheel on Fire

[Joit]

Yes you are right about the additional Energy for the Springs.
Maybe even dont need them long as the Shafts,
but even maybe only a Coil would be enough, what fires the Weight to the outside from the Wheel, when it is big enough.
But i guess, you are more specified to mechanical Moves from Parts at the Wheel.
When i think about it, my mind turns like this big Wheel, but anyhow, nothing drops out.

[CloudSeeder]

Instead of each shaft having its own spring I would favor all the shaft weights being on a ring wire going to one spring, each taking its turn as needed at pulling the one shared spring. Provided that's possible. I also thought of putting weights on the other side of the backboard and letting centrifugal pulling on them through the hub (sort of) serving to provide the return energy, if that isn't throwing the ball too deep for you today. Having the weights on one side of the plywood and counterweights opposite, on the other side of the plywood, connected by a rope or wire... something like that. That was a couple months ago. I drew a picture here somewhere and I liked it a lot. In other words, a counterbalance to the weights on the back side of the plywood. It was complicated but a beautiful design.

[Stealth]

I have built one similar to that design. It self destructed in short order. It would have to be built strong to support the strength of the springs, Even then, I don't think it would work. I have considered the OU contest, but I am not yet ready to submit my machine. It is still a cad drawing at the minute. I ordered some bearings to start building, but they were metric, and now I have to find some metric bolts to mount them on. I got a good deal on E=bay. They are skateboard bearings, and I bought a box of 100, cheap. I will have to build it first and then decide what course to take. If I do decide to open source it, I will post it on this forum first. There seems to be some seriously minded and determined people on here, and I respect all that are trying to make OU and FE work by thinking outside the box. Good Luck. Stealth

[CloudSeeder]

Single cylinder kadiddlehopper doesn't quite make the trip

I had to try it one more time => using only two arms. I suspected it wouldn't work, just had to make sure. Two arms, only one is hitting at a time, may as well be a single cylinder kadiddlehopper. I am going to slap on a secondary auxiliary system -closer in to the hub- spaced a bit ahead so that it hits ahead of the arms, in effect making it like a Two-Stage Engine Fire... but also like a centrifugal advance.

That's the missing piece of the puzzle that should pull the next arm around further.
Yep, think I'll modify one of my other designs scaled down a bit less radius. The
hub should have been larger diameter also, too late to change that this time.

I'll pick this up again tomorrow.

[CloudSeeder]

p.s. It doesn't help a lot when you violate your own drawings. See the hinged arm with the weight? It isn't supposed to extend out past the extended arm but the one I ended up with tonight did. So I ended up with the stroke distance being overly long and the weight further out from the hub (which drug it down on the ride back up). I'll tidy up all the mistakes (pull the weight in 1/2) then add the secondary system (if it still doesn't work). This is a lot of fun.

[CloudSeeder]

Stealth: Did you get the stainless steel pipe yet?

[CloudSeeder]

A Purely Centrifugal Engine No Gravity Required?

Robert Kostoff's 9,000 pound gorilla system is a hybrid device using both gravity AND centrifugal. Has anyone tried making one that is purely or approaching pure centrifugal? At High Speeds a revolving wheel with weights flying away from the hub would pack a lotta punch. Seems like that somehow the next and the next centrifugal force should use a portion of its energy to reset the weight immediately before it.

(Or just do it by virtue of a special "auto-reload" design.)

In that case centrifugal would be the Prime Mover and Gravity would be the Helper Energy. I'm not at all sure that isn't the engine we should be chasing. The new design I mentioned yesterday somewhat does this and I believe will be a strong contender for producing Home Energy... because it would lend itself to a much higher RPM than Gravity.

[CloudSeeder]

Block & Tackle?

All: These is one thing we all seem to have left out => the Block & Tackle magnification device. I think plastic ones can be purchased so the added weight might not be so bad versus the gains. Gravity still seems to have a slowness about it in these short distances. There is need for a pre-loaded catalyst to provide a mechanical advantage.

That could be springs except springs add too much extra weight. A straight rope or wire might help but probably not enough; but if it was fed through a central-position block & tackle we might do something nice... because added extra weight in the center doesn't put extra weight away from the hub like springs tend to do.

What happened yesterday, my hinged arm-weight was returning too far backwards, inserting an awful delay reaction when the weight was dropping. The reason for that was the jig I made moved the axis farther out, allowing the weight to come too far (in other words "bending over backwards").

Whichever ones of us conquer this beast deserves more than "a box of chocolates".

[Stealth]

No, I haven't as of yet recieved my stainless pipe. My friend is supposed to be getting it for me. I haven't seen him in about 2 weeks. I still need to go find some 8mm metric bolts to mount my bearings on. Maybe when I can get all my materials, I can start building one or both of my projects. Sounds as if you are about to work out the bugs in your system. Good Luck. Stealth

[CloudSeeder]

Compression Springs = Positive Rebound Energy

The Value AND the Necessity of
Short Bouncy Compression Springs

Today is June 19 2009. I began tackling Gravity Wheels at the end of February barely 4 months ago Energetic Forum shortcut => http://tinyurl.com/GravityWheelOne . One very early insight I stated there was that my designs were like a pinball machine. Off the starting blocks 1st page of this thread I said the "smack plates" would accomplish the job by having a spring on the back side. I should have qualified that to read "compression springs".

Anyone who knows car engines knows the value of compression springs to pushrods so I placed one behind each smack plate. As of today I've built 3 Gravity Wheels, each a different design but without using the springs. Others here on the Energetic Forum (plus The Mechanical Engine contributors) have come up with many great designs too; and every one of us has noticed a common negative rebound effect that stops them from running nonstop => Negative Rebound Energy. Correctly-placed compression springs (like my first design proposed behind each smack plate) are like Anti-Matter to Matter, the solution to this "Evil Superman" we all feel pushing against our wheels in the wrong direction.

It's like Samson of old pushing a turnstile against us
un-crushing our grain. Compression springs
provide what Gravity lacks:
=> BOUNCE <=

All the gravity wheel designs I have shown so far plus the ones I have not shown will all work so long as the positive rebound compression springs are correctly added and placed. I think that applies to everyone else's gravity wheels, including the swinging board. Pendulum weights swinging outward should hit into a compression spring that will bounce them completely back to their starting position and a waiting latch. That would mean placing the spring soon after the pendulum weight passes say 5 AM, not waiting til the energy has waned toward the end of the stroke. Since the spring energy would be sent toward the rim (and away from the hub) there wouldn't be any negative energy produced because the hub is immovable.

Why would springs being required have to be true? Gravity is our first stage energy. Any motion obtained off of gravity is secondary strength energy. That means whatever design we come up with ONLY HAS ONE SHOT PER MAIN GRAVITY MOTION to reflect the full amount of energy from Gravity. Not to say some really unique and ingenious systems couldn't be thought up say with a counterweight system because I think they can. But for right now we need to whack this beast on his nose, and that means short bouncy compression springs.

Since springs don't grow on trees, + they need to be specially designed and fabricated per use, getting the correct springs is not going to be easy at all. We may end up designing our entire device around a certain size spring. So before running out and searching through landfills and GoodWill stores and hardwares all over the city I think I'll first put some time into figuring out a sufficient spring substitute perhaps using a lever~&~weights combination my weights can smack into, or a thin strip of bungee cord or benchpress weight rubber.

I apologize if I led anyone away from using springs... but many times the springs I was looking at were long (heavy) that I determined would increase the inertia (resistance to motion) overmuch for the total device. Compression springs we need to use should be shorter & lighter. We are on the verge of adding many more machines to Robert Kostoff's.

[CloudSeeder]

Throw a Frisbee away from us and its Design returns it to us.

Thanks Stealth. Yeah, I might get one working today, the one I was working on yesterday. I tried a trick this morning that didn't pan out and made an adjustment too. Still it wouldn't quite make it so I thought up a way to change it again, but then I realized it just plain has to have a bounce in there somewhere.

Spring-contained energy isn't "free energy" and yet in a sense it is. Energy that goes into a spring then coming back at us to do more work is pretty close to free. It's free to use provided us by spring properties sort of like how we throw a Frisbee away from us and its Design returns it to us.

[CloudSeeder]

Which I think agrees with Joit #301

even maybe only a Coil would be enough

but since I thought he meant an electrical coil I didn't grasp his thought right off the bat. A shorter coiled spring would be a compression spring, unless Joit corrects me on that.

[CloudSeeder]

SURFBOARDING, shooting the curve with a Gravity Wheel in each hand

I was just looking at my last wheel, the one I'm also presently still working on. I made the arms a bit over long adding unnecessary weight/inertia needing to be overcome. There are several ways to correct that had I not made it PERMANENT with liquid metal used to keep the threaded rods from turning but that's okay. It occurs to me that the arms being too long might have contributed to needing a secondary system closer to the hub in the first place.

I should add that one reason this design has ended up needing so many patches is from making the hub diameter way too small. Such a small diameter increased the Work needed to be done and also made the Timing more critical than it ever should have been. The hub should have been fat like this steam pot toy http://www.enchantedlearning.com/inv...teamengine.GIF made by Hero(n) 1900 years ago:



Once a mistake of that magnitude has been made everything afterward becomes a struggle of playing catch up trying to outrun such a Base-Level Error & Design Flaw. Notice how the short arm steam toy used its design to direct its output steam behind the 180 degree mark! That's what a gravity wheel needs to do, just forward instead of backward.

But we learn from it anyway because
using a two-phase power stroke
may still be the better choice:

In looking at my failure some more it looks like the secondary system I am adding must not only be #1 closer in to the hub it needs #2 to have a shorter stroke and #3 increased weight (leverage) of the sliding fishing weights #4 angled in toward the hub so they will slide backwards on the ascending side ... in addition to #5 adding some compression springs in somewhere for the missing Bounce. A bit like surfboarding, the secondary system closer in needs to split the middle.

The outer system revolving faster is still covering a longer distance (making its punches come slower) so the inner system needs to throw its punches faster using shorter strokes. Right offhand, I would say the inner short "piston" jab needs to hit first, thereby providing the action of a centrifugal-advance car distributor with the added plus the short jab ahead of the longer arm should add to the longer arm's punch... close enough strikes to be considered a single punch.

Following doing all that I'll start the next wheel correctly with a fat-diameter hub plus shorter arms because the design was a good one had I followed it more closely. (I chose to use a hub ~5/8" dowel rod~ I already had mounted & ready to work on.)
....

[CloudSeeder]

additional mechanical advantage (leverage) when the hub is empty.

Distance outward from the hub gives additional mechanical advantage (leverage) when the hub is empty. Empty = Zero Inertia. Of course the heated air and water of the steam was also providing lift so they somewhat actually came close to defining both a hot air balloon and a spinning toy dirigible.

Maybe I should be using a plastic ball for the hub. I'll look into it come Monday.

[Joit]

Which I think agrees with Joit #301 but since I thought he meant an electrical coil I didn't grasp his thought right off the bat. A shorter coiled spring would be a compression spring, unless Joit corrects me on that.

No no, i dont correct you on that. Its ok, i meant an electrical Coil, where you get some Current from,
or from another one with few Magnets to power the one Coil over a Capacitor, since you said, springs want last that long.
A smaller, maybe weaker or stronger Spring is maybe the right thing, to give some more additional Spin.