CloudSeeder's Gravity Wheel on Fire

[CloudSeeder]

Repeating-Swing Motion Pendulums, the Secret of Gravity Wheels 4/01/2010:

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Repeating-Swing Motion Pendulums,
the Secret of Gravity Wheels 4/01/2010:

Friends, we have tackled this mystery from every conceivable angle. I have the answer now we were all believing existed. The successful Gravity Wheel isn't one that "uses" pendulums it's the one designed so that the entire gravity wheel device IS the pendulum.

More specifically, since it is in a constant state of spinning, by its design its weight is always swinging the same way. The essence of it is that it is a half-pendulum, two half pendulums that switch each other out producing a constant and never-ending replay.

Whew. One side is always sliding away from the axle (+ falling), the other side always coming in closer to the axle, and as it spins the up coming side is becoming the down falling side every time the up coming side passes 12 o'clock. So this establishes a one-way [always] pendulum action of the entire Gravity Wheel.

Both sides weigh the SAME so that the physical wheel is in balance but the penduluming switching is always throwing the overall center-of-balance into a repeating state of imbalance in the same direction.

Peter was right all along! But
it isn't a physical pendulum; it's a
total weight-shift "Motion Pendulum"
that repeats.

Repeating, Center-of-Balance Same-Direction Over-Balance

Projected Completion Time May 1 2010.

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[CloudSeeder]

Gravity Wheel Toy Shopping Cart => http://www.justgravity.com :

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Getting the Gravity Wheel Word Out to the World!

Plans to produce gravity wheels as a children's toy are very tentative. I placed this parking page online to announce it for a reason => "Just Gravity" is a small page that loads super fast even on the slowest third world Windows 95/98 computers still in use. The intention of putting it out ahead of the actual building is to introduce as many people in the world to the idea of working gravity wheels. Reminiscent of a John the Baptist going before Jesus announcing his coming, justgravity.com is a forerunner. Using children's toys in the title should begin the process of filtering out to parents, Moms and grandparents, bringing a spotlight of exposure and attention to our great and difficult endeavor.

The justgravity page is for helping all of us.

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[HiggsBoson]

Is there a working prototype of this ?
I can't see how it can work
It seems to defy some fundamental laws of physics.

Mind you, the laws of physics seem to defy some laws of common sense ie no proven (agreed) unifying theory.

[Cloxxki]

In rest, the toy will have a COG well under it's pivot. Even with 3 such toy arms on 1 axle I suppose the COG would be under the pivot?

[CloudSeeder]

with the same arm, like whipping your opponent with one arm tucked behind your back

Well, I do my best to stuff a moving work of art into words but it always leaves something to be desired. Once you see it you'll be able to trace the cam-like path the center of balance follows, then it won't need lots of words.

That being said I can tell you to think hockey sticks... then imagine the handle of the hockey stick slides a ways back and forth parallel to the main rectangular body. The end of the hockey stick has a sliding weight, so that as it passes 12 o'clock the weight goes in motion as the handle slides a ways, the two happening the same time.

On the other side of the axle the opposite is happening so that the weight and stick have both hugged the axle on the way up. Now the triick is to have the total weight high enough to give the inertia so that the total device's weight carries it through the dead spots where it might otherwise stop => which we call momentum.

hehehe and once again words fail. Anyway, the trick #2 is that the sliding weight starts sliding in the upper quadrant over across the x line into the negative y quadrant impact, so it's jumping quadrants going ahead, which was what I called being a "forerunner".

Think of it too as a boxer's leading punch. He puts his weight forward on the front foot and delivers the jab (fist, the sliding weight). Ahh buddy this is real poetry my friends, the stuff of Jack Dempsey. And it happens twice every 360 degree spin. You're punching out electric bills the world over like the men we are meant to be, taking care of our families.

Putting the bread on the table every day, no finer feeling a man can have.

Of course technically what this is doing is a double jab in rapid fire succession, a 1-2 punch with the same arm, like whipping your opponent with one arm tucked behind your back coming around to hammer him again the other arm. However, there's a possibility a few properly-placed counterweights may be needed, but I'll see won't it work without them first. It's best to add any additional stuff very sparingly to hold down the total weight because every time you add weight it changes the equation.

We're all in for a big treat, including me. I have yet to see it run also!

note: obviously I've gone beyond the earlier animation...
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[CloudSeeder]

Never-Ending Wrestling Match?! Struggle of the Gravity Wheels

In rest, the toy will have a COG well under it's pivot. Even with 3 such toy arms on 1 axle I suppose the COG would be under the pivot?

Your use of the term COG is foreign to me but as the falling side bottoms out and heads toward 4:30+ AM there needs to be happening the first punch from the next weight for pulling the up-coming side up toward 1:30 AM when the 2nd punch will be hitting on the down side. 1-2 punch. Extra on the down side + less punch required to raise the tree hugger weight near the axle on the up side => every spin more impact on the down side than needed to raise up the other tucked-in side.

You have to watch where the center of balance is going, like a cam. Or cog? At any rate this is Greco~Roman wrestling of the finest wrestlers, eternally switching out, neither one able to pin the other man because then the switch~out happens again! hahahaha

[CloudSeeder]

#1 Short Strokes #2a Heavier Weights #2b Close in to the Axle

The difficulty of a gravity wheel is they have to make moves ahead of the move's results being needed. They're like the old distributors in cars that used the counterbalance weights to advance the spark plug fire. It isn't as difficult as it sounds. Once you define the point you want something to happen you have to go back a couple degrees and define what the wheel needs to do THERE to accomplish the future deed. Unfortunately, there are more pre-happenings like this going on at the same time all around the axle. I like it because a gravity wheel is the essence of REAL-TIME.

They're a lot like car engines. You have to mash the gas accounting for a delayed acceleration. This isn't any different. Although the trick is to make it happen at the same time every time. I fail to see that as a problem with a mechanical device that is predictable using gravity that's also 100% predictable. Some designs are very narrowly defined; they are the ones that fail. They miss the one spot they have to act & they stop spinning because they broke their stride. The designs I'm working have a wider window where it can go early or go later, and that window gives you a Speed Adjustment.

It's just like Peter said once. There has to be extra power produced, not just "enough" to spin. That extra power pulls the device through such small blips. What I do with using the threaded rods is I put a set of nuts with a lock washer sandwich on each side of the sliding weights. That gives ya stroke length and position. I expect the successful wheel to #1 use short strokes and #2a use heavier weights that are #2b close in to the axle. A heavier weight close in does less "damage" to the equation (the "trick" I found for the Scorpion design). The short stroke trims seconds off the clock, making for a harder and faster "snap" of the ball. You don't need a long fall if the weight is heavier; however, the design I'm working on now somewhat violates that rule BUT by placing counterbalance weights extended out between them I can effectively move them in closer and also gain some Pre-Ignition control.

[john_g]

Cloudseeder

Just to add to your comment "short strokes and heavy weights". I made a wheel about 6 foot in diameter with the weights suspended by rods from the rim to say 6 inches from the axle line, and they could swing out a bit - it was quite suprising the ammount of torque when unbalanced - of course no self running condition made! I'm still working on a few ideas and will have time this coming week to try some out. Will post if there is any thing of note.

Regards

John

The difficulty of a gravity wheel is they have to make moves ahead of the move's results being needed. They're like the old distributors in cars that used the counterbalance weights to advance the spark plug fire. It isn't as difficult as it sounds. Once you define the point you want something to happen you have to go back a couple degrees and define what the wheel needs to do THERE to accomplish the future deed. Unfortunately, there are more pre-happenings like this going on at the same time all around the axle. I like it because a gravity wheel is the essence of REAL-TIME.

They're a lot like car engines. You have to mash the gas accounting for a delayed acceleration. This isn't any different. Although the trick is to make it happen at the same time every time. I fail to see that as a problem with a mechanical device that is predictable using gravity that's also 100% predictable. Some designs are very narrowly defined; they are the ones that fail. They miss the one spot they have to act & they stop spinning because they broke their stride. The designs I'm working have a wider window where it can go early or go later, and that window gives you a Speed Adjustment.

It's just like Peter said once. There has to be extra power produced, not just "enough" to spin. That extra power pulls the device through such small blips. What I do with using the threaded rods is I put a set of nuts with a lock washer sandwich on each side of the sliding weights. That gives ya stroke length and position. I expect the successful wheel to #1 use short strokes and #2a use heavier weights that are #2b close in to the axle. A heavier weight close in does less "damage" to the equation (the "trick" I found for the Scorpion design). The short stroke trims seconds off the clock, making for a harder and faster "snap" of the ball. You don't need a long fall if the weight is heavier; however, the design I'm working on now somewhat violates that rule BUT by placing counterbalance weights extended out between them I can effectively move them in closer and also gain some Pre-Ignition control.

[CloudSeeder]

john_g always has good ideas too

Glad to hear that John_g! They both have their place! With distance from the axle the laws of leverage multiplies the weights, making possible to use smaller weights. What I've found unfortunately is that farther from the hub also multiplies the chances for failure. That was why I went to the opposite spectrum, large wts near the hub moving less distance. Doing that reduces the stroke length (more of less chances for failure).

The Scorpion used BOTH. The head weights close to the axle dropped pulling the tail into a whipping action with the smaller weight farther out, producing a 1-2 punch. The ones I'm working on now are basically a straightened-out Scorpion. By straightening it out I moved the smaller weight to the opposite side, allowing me to not use a weight at all just a boot to kick it in its own butt.

Yours may very well work also if you figure a way to draw the weights closer to the axle on the way back up the opposite side. Perhaps you could make the arm partly hinged?

[CloudSeeder]

Cloudseeder

Just to add to your comment "short strokes and heavy weights". I made a wheel about 6 foot in diameter with the weights suspended by rods from the rim to say 6 inches from the axle line, and they could swing out a bit - it was quite surprising the amount of torque when unbalanced - of course no self running condition made! I'm still working on a few ideas and will have time this coming week to try some out. Will post if there is any thing of note.

Regards

John

Take a look at the star weapon used back in the 1984 movie Krull.



Now, if you were to take and widen the arms to not be pointy, then cut a slot about two inches long, and put your weight hanging/swinging from the slot, on the upcoming side the weight would be sliding back toward the axle. After passing 12 o'clock the weight would both slide AND swing away to impact at the end of the slot. I would make the slot-curve more pronounced toward the end of the arm. Think Golden Ratio John.

This is borrowing from Robert Kostoff's solution. He used the slot in a very ingenius way.

edit: but you need to put a little "speed bump" to hold the weight back from prematurely sliding.

edit: the speed bump will help do the swing benefit FIRST + taking it over the speed bump for the #2 slide-impact.
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[CloudSeeder]

Or something like that. Those are just a few ideas I've had. They need to be built before anyone can say they hold water. The slots worked already for Kostoff...

[protecheqp]

Or something like that. Those are just a few ideas I've had. They need to be built before anyone can say they hold water. The slots worked already for Kostoff...

well like they say...... every thing works in animation and on paper

some points I noticed in your animation
http://members.cox.net/riley101/virginiahammercam.gif

being in reverse rotation makes it a little bit of a challenge to put it in clock rotation points, but we will keep the clock as is and transpose.

1/ your weight rod does not fall till your at 8:00 o'clock, now I have never seen a object defy gravity like that before the speed of a falling object Is close to 9 meters a second free fall I think I remember

2/ now even if you do get enough impact to turn the device on the shaft, you loose all motion on the other side when it slaps back out at 4:00 o'clock

3/ in reality your rod is sitting on its heel in the 12 o'clock position and by 11 is falling your impact is that of something falling over on a almost lateral plane your little slide weight has the same effect on both sides so it cancelers its effect

don't waste your money till you do some rough tests

but I got to admire your effort ... here is a hint ! the falling weight hammer thing when used in conjunction with centrifugal force reset is only limited by the size of the weight you use. the larger the weight the more torque you get
and in order to use centrifugal force reset it can not go in a circle.

Something to think about..... How do you get the weight you just dropped back up into a weight drop position again using fundamental laws.


Bill

[john_g]

Take a look at the star weapon used back in the 1984 movie Krull.



Now, if you were to take and widen the arms to not be pointy, then cut a slot about two inches long, and put your weight hanging/swinging from the slot, on the upcoming side the weight would be sliding back toward the axle. After passing 12 o'clock the weight would both slide AND swing away to impact at the end of the slot. I would make the slot-curve more pronounced toward the end of the arm. Think Golden Ratio John.


This is borrowing from Robert Kostoff's solution. He used the slot in a very ingenius way.

edit: but you need to put a little "speed bump" to hold the weight back from prematurely sliding.

edit: the speed bump will help do the swing benefit FIRST + taking it over the speed bump for the #2 slide-impact.
....

Cloudseeder

The idea I'm working on is similar, with weight running in a track (slot) connected to a scissor link, timed by another weight - to get advancement. The effect of the weight on the upcoming side can be reduced by placing a ramp at the bottom running up the upcoming side. This may also help return the weight to the inboard position.

[CloudSeeder]

@protecheqp => Yep Bill, the animation leaves a few things to be desired and I believe I have corrected them already. But my son did the animation and then had to split, so in the interest of keeping you guys up-to-speed as much as I could -in case the Bessler scaffold was to find me- I went ahead with what I had. Even though it contains timing jerks and wrong angles and a few visible flaws, to the general public viewing it in their mind they know, they know.

I'm more than 3/4 along with the build #1. It is very balanced just awaiting the weights added. Plus, I know how to make a vastly improved #2 behind it. Thanks for taking time out of your day to mention the discrepancies!

These devices really shouldn't be that hard. Once we define the relationships it's a simple matter to make the device LARGER, which will provide more torque than necessary at the axle to turn generators... by making the device size greater than the required output. I like to believe that can be done without going up to Kostoff's device at 9,000 lbs. and 12 feet height.

@john_g => You have excellent ideas. The use of a ramp is good. My "speed bump" stall is a ramp also. Bill is right. You always hafta keep your eye on just how the weight resets itself into the start position.

Adding another weight or two to yours tempts negative energy creation but if you keep the weight near the axle you can escape that.

[CloudSeeder]

3/ in reality your rod is sitting on its heel in the 12 o'clock position and by 11 is falling your impact is that of something falling over on a almost lateral plane your little slide weight has the same effect on both sides so it cancelers its effect.

Bill

I'm unsure if you completely understand what the animation is doing by this comment. The device has a total of 3 impacts. The entire rod falls over as it passes 12, striking the raised hump inside the slot. This is a fulcrum stop, throwing the impact into both sides but one is down the other is up. This is a splitting of the total impact to both sides and yet also a doubling of the spin because both impacts are in the direction of spin.

The weight sliding is gravy. Hint: the end needs to be angled forward.