High Voltage from Thin Air?

[Mark]

I would love to start working on this circuit but I cant find the SEC FOR DUMMIES link. Can anyone steer me to a laymans layout? Thanks!

[Tecstatic]

You are not alone in your wishes for progress

@All
Well we have a number of people that can now do many tricks with FL's, Neon's and LED's, so can we now move into something we can build that will be useful in a practical and safe way?

1) Storage of energy. A SEC Exciter needs a bit of energy to trigger the coherence and the cohered energy needs to be stored in such a way that after a period of time we can supply our trigger energy and make use in other practical ways the excess.

2) The only two that are are able to be implemented without high initial cost are batteries and capacitors. Of the two the battery will provide the greatest return for the buck. One properly sized capacitor will set a person back a minimum of $55US and to make a device that will serve you will require that you have at least 6 of the units. Lead acid batteries (others also) will give the best return for the cost and two very good batteries can be had for less than $120US.

3) Additional electronics. You will be required to construct additional control circuits. The Exciters can not be connected direct to a battery and return a meaningful gain. We need to provide a switching system that both monitors and switches when needed. Note: Yes, if push came to shove all of this could be a manual operation, but I see no reason to stay so primitive.

4) Test equipment. Yes you will need or have access to some in order to construct and calibrate the final control systems.

5) Power Goal. I think we could consider a starting point at 45W/Hr solar panel for a return of say 207W/Hr without great cost. This would be in the range of $1KUS to $1.4kUS and with a kWHr at 0.30 would be paid for in;

Use 10 hours for a base usage period, 207W/Hr * 10 = 2.07kWHr and 2.07 * 0.30 = 0.621 per daily period. Using the worst case of 1400/0.621 = 2,254 days to recover cost, 2,254 / 365 = 6.175 years.

Not to promising is it? As it is said, nothing is FREE!.

So if I have not made a stupid mistake here in how I calculate it, is it worth it to go for it...........

I don't think so as a daily application. I think we can move forward, but in small emergency and remote short term requirements and may use multiple Exciters to reduce weight from battery storage. In other words maybe use just a solar panel to provide trigger and make real time use of the cohered energy.

Open for discussion!

Dear Doc

Please forgive me for not responding to this post before, I have had my focus on replicating this small part of your work.

As mentioned previously I'm a newcomer in this alternative energy with 18 months exposure to a brand new world. That is nothing compared to your 25 years or more.

Anyway I think I have spent more than 1000 hours reading and trying to understand.
The hardest to read, but also what I have found the most giving after multible readings are the writings of Hector.

His sayings goes along with your work as I see it. I have done some different experiments. Some powerful 1 wire lighting learning some effects but with a low CEC.
I also did some RotoVerter testing, a SS Bedini charger which has restored many batteries to life, along them NiCd's discarded 12 years ago.. I also did some plasma ignition experiments.

So I'm focused to learn more, have been all my life, so count me in, as I think this is excellent for lighting applications. The great thing about a lighting application is that it can be completely enclosed except for holes for the leds. If this beast follows the rules for EMC then it should not be noisy to ordinary electronics. It can then further be enclosed in nice looking reflectors in order to be accepted by the wife.

@Lidmotor
I admire your drive and findings even though your wife does not always encourage you.

In order to make a lighting application the batteries goes in. So we need to study the battery long term response to this kind of charging.

With Bedini chargers you can have "surface charging" if not properly designed, seeing a fast climb in the battery voltage, but loading the battery it goes fast down again. If the AV plug is not suitable for good battery charging, maybe a simple DIAC discharging a capacitor into the battery wil work. I have seen that a capacitor voltage double that of the battery works well for lead batteries.

Another property, at least for lead acid batteries charged the Bedini way, is the need for slow discharge less than 1/20 C. Here a properly working SEC has no problems.

I feel confident that a mechanical switch can be designed so one battery is charged while loading another. Maybe the best thing is to do the switching in the wire to the AV plug, the battery under charge are removed from the load using bistable relays, and the design of the maybe sliding arm is so the capacitive load remains constant to the exciter, regardless which battery is charged (except for the battery itself). Maybe the sliding could be made very simple with a suction coil moving the arm to the opposite side each time pulsed. During the switch of batteries, a capacitor can do the supply as shown by mlurye.

If we can take good care of the batteries I would like lamps with two batteries, a mechanical switch, an exciter and a bunch of LEDs. Here I see no need for an expensive solar cell. just start with one charged battery. So take my vote for the lamps as it is not too complicated, mastering the basics.

LEDs may still be to the expensive side, but that will change shortly.

And please excuse me for mentioning uControllers. Being a hammer every problem looks like a nail.

Of cause I do not want to introduce one just for the sake of it. My reason is the versatility, just change the program and you have a new property.

If the source and binaries are published then it can be considered a part just like the MPSA06. We use it even though we don't know how to produce it.

This ends my argument, I'm also in for simple analog solutions when they do the job, been there myself.

-----------

Regarding my replication I'm trying to figure out some stuff. After my first easy result I do not feel on solid ground now.

Dear Doc, allow me to gain a little more understanding. Is my way, stating my understanding of something, asking your opinion OK with you, or do you consider this spoon-feeding ?

1. I have built my S-Gate as a 15pF balanced gate. Could my S-Gate in principle replace the S-Gate of one of the other 15pF balanced gate replications, or does it require other coils because of the different length ? If no what about the question below:

2. The frequencies you mention for my S-Gate have been found from some criteria. Are they found this way:

f = c * 1.54 / ( inner_tube_length * n ), where
c is speed of light
1,54 is the speed relation between the transversal and longitudinal wave. ( causing two resonant frequencies )
n is an even number.

********************************************

For this HF purpose I do no longer consider a coil a relative simple component to design, I will return when I have learned more. Please be a little patient with me as a newcomer to your thread. Although your circuit look simple the operation is not simple in my opinion.

@mlurye
Thank you for the picture. You really did a good job on CEC, I hope I get there too.

Eric

[Jules Tresor]

Thanks Dr Stiffler for that paper. It's the history of the public domain research with your circuits. Then we will see the evolution that took place. It's very important in my opinion.

A/ That paper gave me to understand that even without capacitor on the output you can get power. So we are not looking for an LC resonance on the output line ? Or does an LC circuit improve the response ?

Can we consider the SGate + the L3 coil connected to ground as a LC circuit that we must put in resonance to cohere more energy, or not? Does the coherence comes only from the transistor side and exit through the output circuit ?
(Sorry for these basic questions, but I'm not expert in electronics.)

B/ In this paper you were using the output of a signal generator. No MPSA06 there I think. If you consider that you were already cohering energy in the circuits shown in that paper, what is the improvement of using the MPSA06 ? Are they just better 'pumps' to increase the quantity of cohered lattice ?

Thanks for sharing and guiding us,
your knowledge about YOUR circuits is many folds ours, so you know much better than us about where to head with the SEC

I'll be ready and happy to contribute financially to the development of your projects by buying your next papers or diagrams. I know that we all have bills to pay, and that money is necessary in any adventure !
God blessings,
MDG

[Lidmotor]

Lattice333 & Dr. Stiffler SEC---My replication

I made a video of my replication of Jonathan's and Dr. Stiffler's SEC/LED circuit. I found a spot between the LEDs and the switching diodes where I could charge up a capacitor to over 20 volts sooooo----I put a second battery there. I'm just running this on 9 volt batteries so I did not use the filter. I also used only 20 LEDs and kept both coils in the circuit. I'll swap batteries every 12 hours and run this for a few days to see what happens. So far it looks pretty good.


YouTube - Lattice333 & Stiffler SEC--- My Replication

Lidmotor

[DrStiffler]

Thanks Dr Stiffler for that paper. It's the history of the public domain research with your circuits. Then we will see the evolution that took place. It's very important in my opinion.

A/ That paper gave me to understand that even without capacitor on the output you can get power. So we are not looking for an LC resonance on the output line ? Or does an LC circuit improve the response ?

Can we consider the SGate + the L3 coil connected to ground as a LC circuit that we must put in resonance to cohere more energy, or not? Does the coherence comes only from the transistor side and exit through the output circuit ?
(Sorry for these basic questions, but I'm not expert in electronics.)

B/ In this paper you were using the output of a signal generator. No MPSA06 there I think. If you consider that you were already cohering energy in the circuits shown in that paper, what is the improvement of using the MPSA06 ? Are they just better 'pumps' to increase the quantity of cohered lattice ?

Thanks for sharing and guiding us,
your knowledge about YOUR circuits is many folds ours, so you know much better than us about where to head with the SEC

I'll be ready and happy to contribute financially to the development of your projects by buying your next papers or diagrams. I know that we all have bills to pay, and that money is necessary in any adventure !
God blessings,
MDG

@stephenafreter
Thanks for the comments.

I do not plan on a business of selling papers, my goal is to have all information in central locations (papers) That can be the guide and foundation for development and understanding. This is not the paper most wanted to be first, but I felt it was the correct one, start near the beginning and move to today.

The papers will be marked so that if changes or additions are made it will be easy to know which is current and most accurate at any point in time. This approach is much better that posting bits and pieces all over the INet.

Your (A/ ) question is answered in the Exciter Paper, but there is always an LC component, a simple coil have various capacity components and not you are not looking for resonance.

For your (B/) question, the paper answers that, please refer there.

The SGate has its own paper and is being compiled now to release after the Exciter.

As far as the release of the papers I have not decided how to do it yet, they can be done as singles and I have a site that will offer them or if I will put all on one CD and offer that myself. I am still open on the best way to reach the goal.

[DrStiffler]

SGate Basics

@Tecstatic

Sorry but its not all that easy. You need to setup a macro in a spread sheet or enter the function in Mathmatica (unless you like self punishment). I will save my method for the SGate paper but will give you direction as it seems you would enjoy the work.

You need to calculate and chart the phase angles for the gate (see attached) and adjust L22 so that the Lg wave takes place in the center where the L33 connects. Remember this is a UWB circuit.

The rest will fall into place and yes I do have a formula that will get in the ball park for U11 and U22, that must wait.

What you will see is that if Lg is properly formed, U >1 otherwise U <1.

[DrStiffler]

I made a video of my replication of Jonathan's and Dr. Stiffler's SEC/LED circuit. I found a spot between the LEDs and the switching diodes where I could charge up a capacitor to over 20 volts sooooo----I put a second battery there. I'm just running this on 9 volt batteries so I did not use the filter. I also used only 20 LEDs and kept both coils in the circuit. I'll swap batteries every 12 hours and run this for a few days to see what happens. So far it looks pretty good.


YouTube - Lattice333 & Stiffler SEC--- My Replication

Lidmotor

@Lidmotor
If you don't need light at the same time, try the charge I posted, it works the same way but is isolated from the collector of the Exciter. If you want to get rid of the cap, just reverse the charge side (polarities of batt and diodes) and remove the cap.

The diodes and the LED are used to adjust the voltage across the battery so that it is not exposed to HV.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...air-bchg01.jpg

[Tecstatic]

S-Gate runs now, not being perfect tuned

@Tecstatic

Sorry but its not all that easy. You need to setup a macro in a spread sheet or enter the function in Mathmatica (unless you like self punishment). I will save my method for the SGate paper but will give you direction as it seems you would enjoy the work.

You need to calculate and chart the phase angles for the gate (see attached) and adjust L22 so that the Lg wave takes place in the center where the L33 connects. Remember this is a UWB circuit.

The rest will fall into place and yes I do have a formula that will get in the ball park for U11 and U22, that must wait.

What you will see is that if Lg is properly formed, U >1 otherwise U <1.

Dear Doc, thank you for the info

I have been "punishing" myself because I have done a minor study and wound several coils having the wire length relative to wavelength and varying the geometry to get a desired inductance. During this I
got the S-Gate working, about the same results with long light off the capacitor seen previously without the S-Gate.

So It is not perfectly tuned yet. My problem was I could not get any oscillation at first.
I will look into the new info, and thanks for the document, more to read

@Lidmotor
I watched your video, super presentation, always a pleasure to watch
I look forward to hear about your experience with battery + light.

Eric

[Lidmotor]

Charging circuit

@Lidmotor
If you don't need light at the same time, try the charge I posted, it works the same way but is isolated from the collector of the Exciter. If you want to get rid of the cap, just reverse the charge side (polarities of batt and diodes) and remove the cap.

The diodes and the LED are used to adjust the voltage across the battery so that it is not exposed to HV.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...air-bchg01.jpg

@Dr. Stiffler---Thanks. I understand what you are saying to do with the charging circuit that you posted. I will try that. The simple circuit that I'm now using seems to be working OK. I switched to (8) AA NiMh battery packs (about 10volts) and that is working really well. I may try charging two battery packs in parallel on the back end to provide a bigger "sponge" for the energy.

Lidmotor

[DrStiffler]

@Dr. Stiffler---Thanks. I understand what you are saying to do with the charging circuit that you posted. I will try that. The simple circuit that I'm now using seems to be working OK. I switched to (8) AA NiMh battery packs (about 10volts) and that is working really well. I may try charging two battery packs in parallel on the back end to provide a bigger "sponge" for the energy.

Lidmotor

@Lidmotor

Sounds good, one or two minor observations from watching your video. Get rid of the double diodes at the front end. The one that has the lowest ( Vf ) is handling the most current anyway and a Vishay 1N4148 will more than handle the load.

Please shorten those leads. Clip leads can be the difference between working and not working (Re: CEC>1), you are normally talking about a band width of >500MHz.

Great effort and commendation to you and Lattice.

@All
My site is coming back up, it is time.............

[Lattice333]

@Lidmotor--great video and looking forward to the results of battery swapping! I believe if we all freely share what we have then we maximise our chances of making this amazing world a better place for all.

Somewhere ahead of us is a 100w incandesant bulb fully lit with with a few watts of input.

Can I borrow a line from a popular song by Phil Collins;

I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh lord
Ive been waiting for this moment, all my life, oh lord

Jonathan

[DrStiffler]

@Lidmotor--great video and looking forward to the results of battery swapping! I believe if we all freely share what we have then we maximise our chances of making this amazing world a better place for all.

Somewhere ahead of us is a 100w incandesant bulb fully lit with with a few watts of input.

Can I borrow a line from a popular song by Phil Collins;

I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh lord
Ive been waiting for this moment, all my life, oh lord

Jonathan

@Lattice333
I think my friend? you may be in error, is it not more like 786.3W/Hr.?

[Lattice333]

@Lattice333
I think my friend? you may be in error, is it not more like 786.3W/Hr.?

@Dr Stiffler

I think my friend that you have more to freely share!

Let's make it harder then - 100w incandescent bulb, a few watts of input, and no batteries allowed.

[DrStiffler]

@Dr Stiffler

I think my friend that you have more to freely share!

Let's make it harder then - 100w incandescent bulb, a few watts of input, and no batteries allowed.

@Lattice333

Okay, we can go there; But unless you have indeed (One Up Me), I need a slight kick start to move forward.

[Mavrick23]

underestimate

@amigo

What I find ironic is we have what 4 or 5 people here that take or appear to care? I guess I could do a YT video on Frog Disection with an SGate Knife and get a couple million views, yet every one cries for energy and one a few hundred bother to look. Strange, YES?

I think you are underedtimating the effect you are having on this community. From what I have seen on this thread and YT I have seen proof that you are underestimating by a factor of 4 or 5 and it is impossible to know how many are working on this quietly and not commenting. The effect is also future reaching in the people that are following and will build, but have not yet for various reasons. I for one will, but at the present have too many projects going and need to finish some up so I can move foreward. I do thank you for what you are showing us.

Michael L