High Voltage from Thin Air?

[martin]

DrStiffler, Ive got my certificate ready to go. I sent you a pm.

[DrStiffler]

Ok everyone, you heard the man, anyone here have a backup???

@martin
I have not received the document you refer to? Did you send to DrStiffler at the greater EmbarqMail?

[DrStiffler]

DrStiffler, Ive got my certificate ready to go. I sent you a pm.

@martin


Yes Sir that is the correct address to send it.

[slayer007]

Is L1 wound around a ferrite rod or is it a carbon rod?

Thank you.

[Mutten]

Is L1 wound around a ferrite rod or is it a carbon rod?

Thank you.

L1, depending on circuit diagram(from +V to Collector) should be an air core. The SEC I'm using it measures in around 8uH. 22 turns 22 gauge wire, just wrapped it around my pointer finger and secured it with zip ties.

Only Lb has a ferrite slug for tuning.

[slayer007]

L1, depending on circuit diagram(from +V to Collector) should be an air core. The SEC I'm using it measures in around 8uH. 22 turns 22 gauge wire, just wrapped it around my pointer finger and secured it with zip ties.

Only Lb has a ferrite slug for tuning.

Thanks a lot Mutten

I was thinking Lb was the choke.
Thanks for clearing that up.

I also have a ferrite rod that should work good for Lb.

@ Doc.

Thanks for the great circuit.

I can see this thread turning into a long one.

Thanks for all your hard work.

[Mutten]

Thanks a lot Mutten

I was thinking Lb was the choke.
Thanks for clearing that up.

I also have a ferrite rod that should work good for Lb.

@ Doc.

Thanks for the great circuit.

I can see this thread turning into a long one.

Thanks for all your hard work.

NP Slayer. Always great to have more people experimenting.

My time this last few days has been contemplating what the SEC15 circuit is doing when its operating. The more I look at it the more it reminds me of various other radiant energy circuits, just done differently. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying Dr Stiffler's work, its just what my novice brain see's for now.

We've got an LC tank circuit that's made by the resistor, the cap and Lb Inductor in series, connected to the base of the transistor.

This sets up the pulsing of L1. When L1 magnetic field collapses we get a radiant spike that creates high voltage with no current.

L2, or the coil off the collector to load, is similar to what bedini does with a diode coming off it. I haven't tried a diode directly off the collector on the SEC15 yet. The magic happens when we get the radiant spike pulsing L2 at its resonant frequency, which reminds me of some of gotolucs work on how the high voltage builds towards the bottom(relative to gotolucs work) of the coil.

One thing that makes this circuit so difficult to work with at times is stray capacitance. The LC tank is very sensitive, and any change in capacitance changes the operational frequency, in turn throwing the L2 resonance out of whack, so you get mixed results.

You'll also notice once you get a working circuit there seems to be 2 sweet spots. One that draws very little current, and one that pulls a bit more.

IMO Whats happening here is a coil has 2 resonant frequencies. The transverse and longitudinal. When you get L2 resonating at its longitudinal frequency the amp draw goes way down.

I'm sure I'm still missing something. This circuit just feels different than the Jewel Thief or Imoteps radiant oscilator and other similiar setups that create the radiant spike.

This is all IMO and would love to hear more ideas, Because theoretically we should be able to get this working with other transistors.

[DrStiffler]

NP Slayer. Always great to have more people experimenting.

My time this last few days has been contemplating what the SEC15 circuit is doing when its operating. The more I look at it the more it reminds me of various other radiant energy circuits,

Well not so fast here. Unless I have poor information (and I have not spent much time on this 'Radiant' stuff) I am not aware of any claims that the 'Radiant' circuits have a 500MHz bandwidth?

Actually I envision them as just a spike from the collapse of a magnetic field.

just done differently. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying Dr Stiffler's work, its just what my novice brain see's for now.

We've got an LC tank circuit that's made by the resistor, the cap and Lb Inductor in series, connected to the base of the transistor.

Well Rb only is required to start the process and can be fully disconnected once the Exciter is in operation and properly tuned. Lb and Cb are a series tank and are pumped by the negative resistance of the transistor and thereby create harmonic excitation to the collector. When you do the math on the three different tuned circuits you will find that they are all below 12MHz., far from the 470-520MHz that is created in the circuit.

This sets up the pulsing of L1. When L1 magnetic field collapses we get a radiant spike that creates high voltage with no current.

Have you seen such a spike on your scope? The wave forms you have shown do not indicated such an action. One of the shots shows a fairly low harmonic wave where the others show a complex waveform that beg for a FT on them.

L2, or the coil off the collector to load, is similar to what bedini does with a diode coming off it.

If you get a diode to work, please let me know. Using a diode will drop your UBO and you will be pulsing from a more or less conventional oscillator (close to a Clapp in design) that suffers a major reduction in bifurcation.

I haven't tried a diode directly off the collector on the SEC15 yet. The magic happens when we get the radiant spike pulsing L2 at its resonant frequency, which reminds me of some of gotolucs work on how the high voltage builds towards the bottom(relative to gotolucs work) of the coil.

So this spike is created by the circuit and within the circuit, am I understanding this correctly? If that is the case then these radiant spikes can never have a CEC>1? Now if this spike were for a moment considered to be external of the circuit would it not be required to dissipate in the circuit and would it not be indicated as additional input energy from the circuits power source as it would compensate for the imbalance? Humm........ wonder if such a spike could be detected as an imbalance if energy was monitored in both the power rails? Seems if a radiant spike was just seeking ground it could work without showing in the input energy, but dual input energy monitoring would be required.

One thing that makes this circuit so difficult to work with at times is stray capacitance. The LC tank is very sensitive, and any change in capacitance changes the operational frequency, in turn throwing the L2 resonance out of whack, so you get mixed results.

Correct, but it is not parasitic capacity, its the absorption or imbalance introduced into the localized lattice surrounding the exciter. Some really like to call this a Near Field, got to Love Em!.

You'll also notice once you get a working circuit there seems to be 2 sweet spots. One that draws very little current, and one that pulls a bit more.

Correct!

IMO Whats happening here is a coil has 2 resonant frequencies. The transverse and longitudinal. When you get L2 resonating at its longitudinal frequency the amp draw goes way down.

Give you 50% here.

I'm sure I'm still missing something. This circuit just feels different than the Jewel Thief or Imoteps radiant oscilator and other similiar setups that create the radiant spike.

Missing a lot....... Show me one of these circuits that will work with a supply voltage as low as 2.5V? The circuits of which you speak are not SEC (Spatial Energy Coherence) they are in the KV range to see similar events.
Why are you placing SEC with these circuits? Apples and Oranges.

This is all IMO and would love to hear more ideas, Because theoretically we should be able to get this working with other transistors.

Good Luck!

See response in the above quote....

[slayer007]

I tried to replicate Dr. Stiffler's SEC.

Here's a short video of it.

YouTube - Replica of some of Dr Stiffler's Work

For the L2 coil I used a coil I had from a crystal radio.
The top of the coil is sanded so I could find the sweat spot where it ran the best.

The neon would also light up better when I touched the end of the coil with my finger.

In the video the meters were not working right.
But when I had them further away it read 30 to under 10Ma.

The neon was brightest when it was around 10Ma. or under.

Thanks Doc. for a Great circuit.
And Thanks agine Mutten for all your help.

[DrStiffler]

I tried to replicate Dr. Stiffler's SEC.

Here's a short video of it.

YouTube - Replica of some of Dr Stiffler's Work

For the L2 coil I used a coil I had from a crystal radio.
The top of the coil is sanded so I could find the sweat spot where it ran the best.

The neon would also light up better when I touched the end of the coil with my finger.

In the video the meters were not working right.
But when I had them further away it read 30 to under 10Ma.

The neon was brightest when it was around 10Ma. or under.

Thanks Doc. for a Great circuit.
And Thanks agine Mutten for all your help.

@slayer007
Great Attempt!

I left a comment on your video, but let me add here.

The "Spatial Energy Coherence" Exciters when in proper operation will have a bandwidth of at least 500MHz. This means that long clip leads or connection wire will "Kill You" in trying to replicate. Wire it like you are living in a Japanese Apartment (no disrespect meant here) Small, Small is the operative word.

That coil you have from the xtal radios has far to small a gauge of wire. You need a minimum of #24 otherwise the inner winding capacity is going to stop or limit the UBO.

You will see a world of difference when you shrink things and shorten wires. You have seen a point where you access the lattice, but you are not able to stabilize it.

Thanks for going for it and accept my comment as help and not criticism.

[slayer007]

@slayer007
Great Attempt!

I left a comment on your video, but let me add here.

The "Spatial Energy Coherence" Exciters when in proper operation will have a bandwidth of at least 500MHz. This means that long clip leads or connection wire will "Kill You" in trying to replicate. Wire it like you are living in a Japanese Apartment (no disrespect meant here) Small, Small is the operative word.

That coil you have from the xtal radios has far to small a gauge of wire. You need a minimum of #24 otherwise the inner winding capacity is going to stop or limit the UBO.

You will see a world of difference when you shrink things and shorten wires. You have seen a point where you access the lattice, but you are not able to stabilize it.

Thanks for going for it and accept my comment as help and not criticism.

@ Dr. Stiffler

Thanks for the reply and info.

I will shrink it down and wind another coil for L2.

Now that I know the ohms where the coil runs the best.
I will make another coil with heavier wire but the same ohm.

[Mutten]

Originally Posted by Mutten View Post
NP Slayer. Always great to have more people experimenting.

My time this last few days has been contemplating what the SEC15 circuit is doing when its operating. The more I look at it the more it reminds me of various other radiant energy circuits,

Well not so fast here. Unless I have poor information (and I have not spent much time on this 'Radiant' stuff) I am not aware of any claims that the 'Radiant' circuits have a 500MHz bandwidth?

Actually I envision them as just a spike from the collapse of a magnetic field.

just done differently. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying Dr Stiffler's work, its just what my novice brain see's for now.

We've got an LC tank circuit that's made by the resistor, the cap and Lb Inductor in series, connected to the base of the transistor.

Well Rb only is required to start the process and can be fully disconnected once the Exciter is in operation and properly tuned. Lb and Cb are a series tank and are pumped by the negative resistance of the transistor and thereby create harmonic excitation to the collector. When you do the math on the three different tuned circuits you will find that they are all below 12MHz., far from the 470-520MHz that is created in the circuit.

This sets up the pulsing of L1. When L1 magnetic field collapses we get a radiant spike that creates high voltage with no current.

Have you seen such a spike on your scope? The wave forms you have shown do not indicated such an action. One of the shots shows a fairly low harmonic wave where the others show a complex waveform that beg for a FT on them.

L2, or the coil off the collector to load, is similar to what bedini does with a diode coming off it.

If you get a diode to work, please let me know. Using a diode will drop your UBO and you will be pulsing from a more or less conventional oscillator (close to a Clapp in design) that suffers a major reduction in bifurcation.

I haven't tried a diode directly off the collector on the SEC15 yet. The magic happens when we get the radiant spike pulsing L2 at its resonant frequency, which reminds me of some of gotolucs work on how the high voltage builds towards the bottom(relative to gotolucs work) of the coil.

So this spike is created by the circuit and within the circuit, am I understanding this correctly? If that is the case then these radiant spikes can never have a CEC>1? Now if this spike were for a moment considered to be external of the circuit would it not be required to dissipate in the circuit and would it not be indicated as additional input energy from the circuits power source as it would compensate for the imbalance? Humm........ wonder if such a spike could be detected as an imbalance if energy was monitored in both the power rails? Seems if a radiant spike was just seeking ground it could work without showing in the input energy, but dual input energy monitoring would be required.

One thing that makes this circuit so difficult to work with at times is stray capacitance. The LC tank is very sensitive, and any change in capacitance changes the operational frequency, in turn throwing the L2 resonance out of whack, so you get mixed results.

Correct, but it is not parasitic capacity, its the absorption or imbalance introduced into the localized lattice surrounding the exciter. Some really like to call this a Near Field, got to Love Em!.

You'll also notice once you get a working circuit there seems to be 2 sweet spots. One that draws very little current, and one that pulls a bit more.

Correct!

IMO Whats happening here is a coil has 2 resonant frequencies. The transverse and longitudinal. When you get L2 resonating at its longitudinal frequency the amp draw goes way down.

Give you 50% here.

I'm sure I'm still missing something. This circuit just feels different than the Jewel Thief or Imoteps radiant oscilator and other similiar setups that create the radiant spike.

Missing a lot....... Show me one of these circuits that will work with a supply voltage as low as 2.5V? The circuits of which you speak are not SEC (Spatial Energy Coherence) they are in the KV range to see similar events.
Why are you placing SEC with these circuits? Apples and Oranges.

This is all IMO and would love to hear more ideas, Because theoretically we should be able to get this working with other transistors.

Good Luck!

See response in the above quote....

Well, like I said, I'm still trying to wrap my novice head around this with what I know. I guess I am comparing apples and oranges. Its hard moving from conventional EE thinking when this doesn't fit the bill.

Any and all corrections are welcome.

I've got some questions about reading my oscope. I'm still learning as I go.

So I've got my scope set at 5v/div 1uS/div using a 10x probe.

What I am seeing on the screen is then 50v/div and .1uS or 10uS / div ?

1uS = 1 mhz if I am understanding this correctly.

L1 I get a scope shot that looks like this, with a peak to peak of roughly 130v (if I'm reading this correctly) with a Frequency of 60mhz or 600KHz ? 600khz seems too low so it must be 60mhz but I'm not 100% sure.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3073-1.jpg

Then on L2 (collector to load) my scope looks like this. 300v peak to peak at roughly the same frequency?

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...C15-3072-1.jpg

[amigo]

Mutten,

it really depends if your scope compensates for the probe or not, first of all.

The probe never affects the frequency (x axis), only the amplitude (y axis).

What you are compensating for is the higher voltage component of the signal than the lower input stage of the scope, so it does not burn it out.

Yes, 1us = 0.000001 s and so 1/0.000001 = 1,000,000 Hz = 1 MHz

[Blue_Serge]

Circuit to work with?

Does anyone have a circuit diagram that I can replicate? If Dr.Stiffler doesn't mind, can someone post the circuit. I would love to build one of these systems. THank you.

[Mutten]

Does anyone have a circuit diagram that I can replicate? If Dr.Stiffler doesn't mind, can someone post the circuit. I would love to build one of these systems. THank you.

Best I can do at the moment is point you to someone thats already posted it on another forum.

Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler

This is the basic SEC15 exciter. Very few parts. I'd recommend buying a lot more MPSA06 transistors than you'll think you need. I think I've got about half of what i started with. Originally bought 100. Also, look for Fairchilds or On Semi's

I'm still blowing up about 2-4 a day but I think that's because my tunable inductor is set for such a wide range of frequencies.