High Voltage from Thin Air?

[mudwump]

Input and Output

Today I lit a string of 48 bright white LEDs with the Stiffler device. They were all very, very bright. According to their spec they consumed 2.5 volts at 30 mA. They were connected in series so by my calculations 48 LEDs x 2.5 volts x 30 mA = 3.6 watts. According to my digital multi-meter (which I do not fully trust) my input was 19.6 volts DC at .35 mA. Hmmmm... that comes out to .00686 watts input and 3.6 watts output. LOL. I am still waiting for my super caps to arrive so that I can do measurements that do not depend upon the high frequencies affecting the DMM. I probably did a basic math error, so please jump in, no hard feelings here. The DMM did not vary on the .35 mA reading with one or two towers.

[mudwump]

Two receivers

Not having a light meter everything is very subjective of course. With two receivers each having a bank of 48 LEDs in series, it appears that they are about half bright. When I disconnect one tower, the single bank of 48 are almost blinding bright. I reattach the second receiver and they drop back to about half bright. I have not figured out a tuning parameter to be able to adjust the output for full brightness. Doc, any help here would be appreciated. Thanks.

[ABCStore]

Dr.,

thanks for new videos!

ABC

[DrStiffler]

Today I lit a string of 48 bright white LEDs with the Stiffler device. They were all very, very bright. According to their spec they consumed 2.5 volts at 30 mA. They were connected in series so by my calculations 48 LEDs x 2.5 volts x 30 mA = 3.6 watts. According to my digital multi-meter (which I do not fully trust) my input was 19.6 volts DC at .35 mA. Hmmmm... that comes out to .00686 watts input and 3.6 watts output. LOL. I am still waiting for my super caps to arrive so that I can do measurements that do not depend upon the high frequencies affecting the DMM. I probably did a basic math error, so please jump in, no hard feelings here. The DMM did not vary on the .35 mA reading with one or two towers.

@mudwump
Could you explain how the cap charging will work for obtaining info of any value?
I would be interested in how you will maintain correct tuning on the Exciter during the charge/load changing curve? The output of the Exciter does not auto tune. So you would move from short circuit to very high Z during the charge cycle. I would think the Exciter under these conditions would be ~2% eff.

[mudwump]

Super Caps

I only plan to charge and discharge in a small voltage range. As an example charge to 2.5 volts and discharge to 2.0 volts and measure the time for discharge and charge rates. This voltage range may be too large. It will take some experimentation of course. It may not work at all. I trust your judgment much more than mine, but I just wanted to give it a try to satisfy my curiosity. I plan to have two banks of caps, one charge and the other discharging and measure the time between cycles as the variable. I will post the circuit of course. All, feel free to jump in and critique the idea, no hurt feelers here, I am just trying to learn.

[DrStiffler]

I only plan to charge and discharge in a small voltage range. As an example charge to 2.5 volts and discharge to 2.0 volts and measure the time for discharge and charge rates. This voltage range may be too large. It will take some experimentation of course. It may not work at all. I trust your judgment much more than mine, but I just wanted to give it a try to satisfy my curiosity. I plan to have two banks of caps, one charge and the other discharging and measure the time between cycles as the variable. I will post the circuit of course. All, feel free to jump in and critique the idea, no hurt feelers here, I am just trying to learn.

@mudwump

As an example charge to 2.5 volts and discharge to 2.0 volts and

You are still not understanding what I said. From 0V (dead short) to whatever voltage 2V or 2KV the impedance changes as the cap charges and the Exciter eff will change accordingly. I have stated many time in many places the Exciters are for the most part high Z outputs. So I fail to see how this will provide anything but incorrect information.

Additionally with SuperCaps you had better understand their dynamics. I have been there done that and screwed up more than did it right. This is not the correct approach.

[mudwump]

@mudwump



You are still not understanding what I said. From 0V (dead short) to whatever voltage 2V or 2KV the impedance changes as the cap charges and the Exciter eff will change accordingly. I have stated many time in many places the Exciters are for the most part high Z outputs. So I fail to see how this will provide anything but incorrect information.

Additionally with SuperCaps you had better understand their dynamics. I have been there done that and screwed up more than did it right. This is not the correct approach.

I was not planning to start at zero voltage with the charge of the caps. If this is not the correct approach. I understand. To clarify it a bit better, I will probably start with charged caps (19.6 volts total for the string of super caps). Using a known resistance, discharge to a lower voltage (just for an initial guess, let's say 18 volts for the string) and measure the time it takes to charge back up to 19.6 volts. This setup would alternate between a charging bank and a discharging bank. I would also compare the discharge times to the LED bank and the load to the known resistance. Doc, am I still out in left field? I know i still need to get the correct value for the voltage levels. I do not know this value at this time. If you can recommend a starting point, that would be great.

[Armagdn03]

Im not sure if this is relevant, but,

Much of the work I do falls along similar lines to what is being worked on here. With several similar devices, I found that one can charge a capacitive load, however the building "back pressure" on the capacitor affects the circuit filling it. The result is one such that you may start with your capacitor at 0, and you may be in resonance, however as the cap fills, you fall out of the resonant situation you once sat in. The result is that as the capacitor fills, you connect to the hip of it a changing resonant point, so either you must have a way hunting for the correct sweet spot continuously, or you must figure out a way to make the capacitor appear invisible.

For example, I for a while (using similar transmision style) was using a pick up coil, rectified to fill capacitors and ran into the problem above. In order to fix it, I used a 2 strand pick up coil, connected to two capacitors, each with a diode (half wave rectified). The diodes were reverse of one another, so that one capacitor filled one cycle of the AC wave, the other the next. The result is that the back pressure placed on the pick up coils from the capacitors is equal and opposite within that coils space, and so they appear not to be there, making the job easier. This was still not perfect, but an improvement.

Many of the energy gain mechanisms need a very stable load as a transducer so that more instable loads may be attatched down the line. I think that issues such as impedance matching and other load related issues cause the effect of "overunity" to be missed by most. For example, I am building a motor that runs off of reactive power, but to do so the rotational aspect of the device needs to have no effect on the capacitive or inductive elements in the circuit, meaning it must be STABLE, and not change state as it is being used. I think if these concepts are worked on now, many people will have a much easier time understanding the nature of the beast.

The SEC exciter seems to fall right into these lines, If I remember correctly, the good Dr. Stiffler mentioned a heat producing version of the circuit, which could not simply be ploped in water for calorimetry, I would assume for reasons of detuning. To really get the bang for the buck, I think a high z transducer need be found which has a stable input, no matter the output. This device would need to have a high efficiency, because you dont want to loose 50% of your power through the transducing process. Such a load allows a dynamic output, with a stable input, so that it can be run by circuits such as being discussed. An example of this would be a solar cell and LEDs, no matter what you pull from the cell, the LED input stays stable, however this would be wildly inneficient.

[lamare]

Some interesting documents on electrolysis

@Doc (and all)

Since you're also interested in electrolysis, I have found a whole lot of documents about Stanley Meyers system:
http://my.opera.com/h2earth/blog/cybrarium

The most interesting document is this one:
http://files.myopera.com/H2earth/fil...n%20Design.pdf

This states something about how stainless steel tubes should be prepared:

"It should be noted that shiny new stainless steel is not suitable for use as an electrode in any form of
electrolysis. This can be seen in Joe Cell construction where the stainless steel cylinders need to be
conditioned through repeated short periods of electrolysis. The same applies to flat plate electrolysers,
where Bob Boyce points out that no serious volumes of gas will be produced until the stainless steel plates
have received a white coating, produced by leaving them to sit unused in the Potassium Hydroxide solution
for a few days. The same applies to this replication of Stan Meyer’s electrolysis unit. When the power is first
applied, very little electrolysis takes place as the active surfaces of the pipes get covered with bubbles which
stick to them. However, if they are left for a while with the bubbles in place, a brown scum forms on the
surface of the water. The scum is cleaned off and another short period of electrolysis carried out to cover
the plates with bubbles again. After this process has been carried out repeatedly, the brown scum no longer
forms and the active tube surfaces have a white coating. At this point, the ‘conditioned’ tubes produce the
kind of rapid electrolysis shown in the video."

This suggests that the white coating that appears forms an insulating layer on the electrodes (note that the wires and all electrical stuff inside the reactor is also stainless steel).
If that is true, then it looks like it is possible to do electrolysis (almost) without current, by putting the water in between insulated capacitor plates. In other words: it appears to be possible to perform electrolysis using only an electric field.

It this is the case, one wonders what would happen if one would place two insulated metal plates close to one another in water, and excite it with one of your circuits trough an AV plug.

[Lidmotor]

SEC 15-3 Performance Observation

@ Dr. Stiffler and All
I did a little video to basically encourage those with the proper equipment to continue trying to get accurate measurments of the input vs output. It shows the SEC running a computer fan as well as lighting up a whole bunch of LEDs off one wire at a distance. I have read and reread the Measurement document and decided that I have to buy a new meter to get the results I'm after. Here is the "Observation" video----

YouTube - SEC 15--3 Performance Observation.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[lamare]

@mudwump
Could you explain how the cap charging will work for obtaining info of any value?
I would be interested in how you will maintain correct tuning on the Exciter during the charge/load changing curve? The output of the Exciter does not auto tune. So you would move from short circuit to very high Z during the charge cycle. I would think the Exciter under these conditions would be ~2% eff.

I have been thinking in the direction of using a tuned secondary pick-up coil to extract the cohered energy.

The before mentioned article by Naudin ( The L.M.D./T.E.M.Test ) suggests that the main coil can be thought of as a transmission line. In this article, you see a model of how a transmission line (and also a coil) can have two transmission modes, a longitudinal and a transversal. For the longitudinal mode, the potential wave is transmitted trough capacitative coupling between the coil wires, while the current still goes trough the wires. In other words: the electric field is not aligned with the direction the current flows in. You get a certain "angle" between the direction of "driving" electric force and the actual movement direction of the electrons inside the wire.

Given the simulations by Naudin, it suggests that when a higher harmonic resonance frequency is used, you get a standing longitudinal wave (component) propagating trough the capactive coupling of the coil windings, which extracts some kind of energy from the environment. (Of course, at the same time you have a normal transversal component, mainly traveling trough the coil wires.)

In other words: it appears that the energy coherence takes place by this mechanism in the main coil, given that indeed a higher harmonic is actually being used, as I have measured in my coil before.

If this is all correct, then you would have excess power available at (the top of?) the coil, which could be extracted using a transformer, as Tesla did in his magnifying transmitter.

So, I'm thinking in the direction of winding a secondary coil, and tune that with a cap, such that the combination is tuned to the applied resonance frequency. Since we want to extract power, we want to have both current and voltage, which means we want to transform high-voltage, low current excess power into low(er) voltage, high(er) current power.

Since we want current to be available to power loads, we want the available electric field to move the electrons in our secondary coil, and therefore we don't want it to take a shortcut across the capactive coupling between the secondary coil windings.

So, I'm thinking of winding a secondary coil with less capacitive coupling by using more space between the windings. Then I can measure the inductance of the secondary and make a tuned "recieving" circuit using a capacitor, such that the secondary circuit has it first resonance frequency at the used frequency.

This way, we should be able to capture a significant portion of the cohered energy in our tuned LC secondary circuit, which could be fed trough a full bridge rectifier followed by a couple of chokes and/or other filtering to power loads.

However, I haven't tried any of this yet. Perhaps I will be able to do some experiments the coming weekend. Please feel free to experiment with a/o discuss this idea any way you like.

[mudwump]

Input and Output Energy

I am not sure how many people are in the same boat, but I do not have the money to invest in the wonderful array of test equipment similar to the Doc. I had hoped that I could come up with a test protocol with the super caps that I have ordered that I could measure the input and output of the SEC 15-3 with sufficient accuracy that I had confidence in what I imagine seeing. With the Doc's knowledge and doubts about using my proposed method, does anyone have a good, cheap way to test the input and output energy? I have had experience with high frequencies causing false indications, so I do not have confidence using my inexpensive DMM (~$200), even with a filter, and it providing reliable data that I have confidence in.

[kent_elyue]

questions about the coils in the construction guide

How many turns of #24 wire on the sewing machine bobbin are required to achieve 9uH? I searched carefully in the construction guide but could not find the information. Perhaps I missed it several times. Or do you need to use an inductance bridge? (I don't have one.)

Oh, and just to make absolute certain, do the "tower" coils use the same #24 wire too?

[Lidmotor]

AV plug

Sorry to barge in, but, Lidmotor or anyone else, could you please post a diagram of an AV plug. I seen one posted before but can't find it.

Thanks

Hi Mark,
The diagram for the AV plug is very simple. It is just one small switching diode going one way and the second one going the other way. Join the two at one end and you have (+) and (-) on the free ends. Here is a link to Dr. Stiffler's Measurment document where he shows how it is put together as a testing tool. It is a very handy little device.

SEC Exciter Measurement Methods

@Kent_elyue
I am using 39 turns of 24 ga on the bobbin. Someone earlier in the thead figured it out. The tower coils are 24 ga also.



Lidmotor

[Lidmotor]

BIG AV plug

Thanks Lid,
But I was talking about the one in your video that has 6 or 8 diodes shaped like a triangle inside of another triangle. Sorry Doc I'll erase these posts tomorrow.

I have some trouble posting pictures here for some reason so here is the video where I show the BIG AV plug and a diagram. Just freeze frame it and draw a sketch. Slayer came up with it for another application and I added the cap to it. In my last video I am not using the earth ground like it shows in the diagram here. This thing makes a great little wireless batttery charger sitting anywhere near a running SEC. I have to ground out the cap when I'm not using it or it quietly builds up a charge in it. ZAP!!!!

YouTube - SEC running a pulse motor wirelessly

Lidmotor