High Voltage from Thin Air?

[DrStiffler]

what came to mind for me when I did this experiment was, if you view the test tube as being initially a neutral part of the free space environment of the local area. now you excite the bottom of the tube while placing a rectifying diode across the length of the tube.

The capacitive ring will direct its radial potential gradient towards a central point giving the highest potentials near its central axis, which is where the rectifiers cathode sits in capacitive coupling. Not only does water act as a great dielectric, but because it is distilled water it will have a higher impedance for current flow. Because the capacitive coupling affects one side of the diode very strongly, and the other side of the diode sits at a significantly further point distance wise, there will inevitably be a potential difference. This will "pump" the diode. Because it is a rectifier, it will allow the easiest path of conduction to be through its silicon region during one half of the cycle, and during the other half of the cycle through the water, causing unidirectional flow of current.

if this were the case, it might be reasonable to assume that the L3 was detrimental to the experiment from sitting so close to the test tube in the first video.

What I thought important to consider is that water is both strong dielectric, and charge carrier (even in distilled you get small current, high impedance). Can the way the water responds to the charge imbalance on the ends of the rectifier cause the capacitive ring, and the L3 to ring? In other words, if the experiment were reversed, and you were forcefully pumping the diode, would it couple back to L3?

In my book that constitutes a "one way" transducer,

@Armagdn03

The capacitive ring will direct its radial potential gradient towards a central point giving the highest potentials near its central axis,

Correct and I'm sure you know the ring is also radiating outward and if one so wishes can call it near field (tired of fighting that battle). We of course are not concerned with what happens external or on the exterior of the ring. For the low level experimental demo purpose a ball park rule of thumb would be a density of 100mW/cm2.

capacitive coupling. Not only does water act as a great dielectric,

Correct again, although to model this is not so easy. With the diodes or the LEDs you can reason a complicated capacitive structure between the ring, water and diodes and pretty much discard environmental capacity, yet this changes greatly if you look at the significant heating that is possible. Now we have to look at the molecules themselves and the affect of the environmental capacity, unless we model it as all taking place at the structure level of the water and this is the most interesting of it all.

but because it is distilled water it will have a higher impedance for current flow

Okay then we could assume there is minimal actual current flow from anode to cathode? Would we then say this is conventional electrolysis of water? Using this idea could explain the lack of the O2, but this reall opens a can of worms does it not?

You can indeed use a conductive water (tap water) yet it contains such junk it fouls the works in short order. Don't mess with ionic additives like NaCl etc, kills the action.

if this were the case, it might be reasonable to assume that the L3 was detrimental to the experiment from sitting so close to the test tube in the first video.

That is a valid point, except the number of replication by different people already has shown that to be of minimal effect. Remember to out conversations on diode orientation and the video that came from? That will affect what takes place, that is why you don't see diodes in that position when close to the L3.

difference. This will "pump" the diode. Because it is a rectifier, it will allow the easiest path of conduction to be through its silicon region during one half of the cycle, and during the other half of the cycle through the water, causing unidirectional flow of current.

Okay sounds good, where is the O2, did you evolve any that would be correct in ratio?

Very good thoughts and result, looking forward to feedback on the comment answers and questions from you observation.

Oh, about forgot. If you have the instrumentation, look at the pH, you will find it of interest.

[Armagdn03]

@DrStiffler

This is where I wish I had correct instrumentation. I have no idea which gasses where being evolved! If what you say is correct (and I assume it to be) and the o2 is not being evolved in correct ratio then that is very very interesting indeed.

I can go buy a simple litmus test for pH, or perhaps a digital soil meter, but for now I have no way to measure.

I will look into this further!

(p.s. a guess...does the water get more and more basic?)

[DrStiffler]

@DrStiffler

This is where I wish I had correct instrumentation. I have no idea which gasses where being evolved! If what you say is correct (and I assume it to be) and the o2 is not being evolved in correct ratio then that is very very interesting indeed.

I can go buy a simple litmus test for pH, or perhaps a digital soil meter, but for now I have no way to measure.

I will look into this further!

(p.s. a guess...does the water get more and more basic?)

@Armagdn03
Lets do this off line. Only one in 100 viewers care or want to know the resulting chemistry. Will contact you and we do have all the necessary instrumentation down the hall. Anyway I then know who is talking to who as I am getting sick of all the ex-spurts out there and have no desire to add to their misguided notoriety.

[dinu]

More diodes equal more gas ouput ?

Thank you DrStiffler and all the people who got involved in this project.

I may come up with a stupid questions that might have been answered but I don't know.
It is claimed that increasing the number of diodes in the electrolyser it increases the gas output without any voltage/current drop from SEC. Is this a correct statement ?

I've seen almost all the youtube viodes regarding SEC electrolysis but I didn't see more then 4 diodes in the water. Is anybody here who tried with more then 4 diodes ? If not, can somebody try with maybe 10 or 20s or more then 20s to see how it goes ?

Thanks !
Dinu

[everwiser]

@Armagdn03
Lets do this off line. Only one in 100 viewers care or want to know the resulting chemistry. Will contact you and we do have all the necessary instrumentation down the hall. Anyway I then know who is talking to who as I am getting sick of all the ex-spurts out there and have no desire to add to their misguided notoriety.

I understand your desire for constructive privacy Dr. Stiffler. However, please do keep the information coming when possible. I find them all very interesting and enjoy each new discovery. Please, if possible, keep them coming. Thank you.

[DrStiffler]

Thank you DrStiffler and all the people who got involved in this project.

I may come up with a stupid questions that might have been answered but I don't know.
It is claimed that increasing the number of diodes in the electrolyser it increases the gas output without any voltage/current drop from SEC. Is this a correct statement ?

I've seen almost all the youtube viodes regarding SEC electrolysis but I didn't see more then 4 diodes in the water. Is anybody here who tried with more then 4 diodes ? If not, can somebody try with maybe 10 or 20s or more then 20s to see how it goes ?

Thanks !
Dinu

@dinu

You can add as many diodes as you wish to increase production so long as they maintain (see) a power density of at least 100mW/cm2.

We don't do work on request here, at least I do not. This is a participation thread composed of people that are willing to replicate and work with the experiments.

Appreciate you interest and would suggest to take that interest to the bench as the reward can come in many ways.

[DrStiffler]

I understand your desire for constructive privacy Dr. Stiffler. However, please do keep the information coming when possible. I find them all very interesting and enjoy each new discovery. Please, if possible, keep them coming. Thank you.

@everwiser
I supply all that is required for replication and sometimes more, yet to clutter with information that only would be of interest to a chemist or physicist, I feel that is better served on a different level, as can so easily be seen by just what happens here in this thread from time to time.

[CosmicFarmer]

Yup. Finally tried the water diode experiment. SEC18 with standard L3, and I used a one shot VSOP sample plastic bottle which was the only thing that was as small as a test tube I had around. I don't think there was enough mass after L3 but I could see gas evolve and did notice that most or all of the bubbles came from the diode body and not the leg, as you showed.

However I found some heating in a strange place...

I had a AV plug and double LED detector in my hand. Once I put it in the water, the LEDs came on and where the metal touched my finger begun to get burnt, but no mark. Usually I can touch anything and not feel it when experimenting with the SEC, but this time there was a difference. It didn't feel like electric zap, just heating... If I left the AV plug on top of the "drunkard's test tube" then it didn't get hot, but it needed my hand to begin warming up. I think this is an indicator of not enough mass after L3.

Anyway. I know you think i'm silly but I just wanted to reaffirm everything you have been showing.

[dinu]

Yup. Finally tried the water diode experiment. SEC18 with standard L3, and I used a one shot VSOP sample plastic bottle which was the only thing that was as small as a test tube I had around. I don't think there was enough mass after L3 but I could see gas evolve and did notice that most or all of the bubbles came from the diode body and not the leg, as you showed.

If you say that the bubbles come from the diode body then it might answer the question "Is it hydrogen alone or hydrogen+oxygen". The answer can be both hydrogen and oxygen as standard electrolysis in this case - just my 2 cents.

One way to confirm that the diode body is producing the gas as oxygen+hydrogen would be to put it horizontally not vertically (but I'm not sure if that would create any bubbles at all) and see if the diode leg(s) are producing the gas or just the diode body.

One other way to check if it's only hydrogen (yet another stupid idea) is to fill up a ballon with the resulting gas. Inside the ballon you must have some electric discharge mechanism that you can trigger from outside the ballon. If the ballon explodes then it contains oxygen as well. But you must be sure that the ballon+electric mechanism is oxygen free before filling it up with the gas.

Does this make any sense ?

Thank you,
Dinu

[DrStiffler]

Yup. Finally tried the water diode experiment. SEC18 with standard L3, and I used a one shot VSOP sample plastic bottle which was the only thing that was as small as a test tube I had around. I don't think there was enough mass after L3 but I could see gas evolve and did notice that most or all of the bubbles came from the diode body and not the leg, as you showed.

However I found some heating in a strange place...

I had a AV plug and double LED detector in my hand. Once I put it in the water, the LEDs came on and where the metal touched my finger begun to get burnt, but no mark. Usually I can touch anything and not feel it when experimenting with the SEC, but this time there was a difference. It didn't feel like electric zap, just heating... If I left the AV plug on top of the "drunkard's test tube" then it didn't get hot, but it needed my hand to begin warming up. I think this is an indicator of not enough mass after L3.

Anyway. I know you think i'm silly but I just wanted to reaffirm everything you have been showing.

@CosmicFarmer
Thank you for the report. Well, silly no, we all have our moments and lapses.

I do think you were getting RF burn, leave it for a minute and it should gray the flesh, may even take a day to show up. RF burns can sneak up on you. As far as the mass, could also be true.

Hey, the singing coils, wait until you hear tools start singing or test equipment that is turned off. That remark was a bad attempt at affirming what you reported.

[DrStiffler]

If you say that the bubbles come from the diode body then it might answer the question "Is it hydrogen alone or hydrogen+oxygen". The answer can be both hydrogen and oxygen as standard electrolysis in this case - just my 2 cents.

One way to confirm that the diode body is producing the gas as oxygen+hydrogen would be to put it horizontally not vertically (but I'm not sure if that would create any bubbles at all) and see if the diode leg(s) are producing the gas or just the diode body.

One other way to check if it's only hydrogen (yet another stupid idea) is to fill up a ballon with the resulting gas. Inside the ballon you must have some electric discharge mechanism that you can trigger from outside the ballon. If the ballon explodes then it contains oxygen as well. But you must be sure that the ballon+electric mechanism is oxygen free before filling it up with the gas.

Does this make any sense ?

Thank you,
Dinu

@Dinu
Well that sounds like some of my cryptic responses. Why would you think it to be liberated from the glass body in normal mix? We do have a GC, Gas Chromatograph.

Here is where this could be heading and it can fit all sec and av plug display with most circuits. What if the diodes and leds are at 'very' high potentials?
Oh lets call it a photonic well. Humm... Now all kind of new doors open. This even fits my videos of mass transmission.

Thanks for the idea, now you talking

[dinu]

@Dinu
Well that sounds like some of my cryptic responses. Why would you think it to be liberated from the glass body in normal mix? We do have a GC, Gas Chromatograph.

:

If you don't mind and if you want...can you please post the Gas Chromatograph results - if any ? Just so that everybody knows what in the world is in that gas

Thanks for your fast responses
Dinu

[dinu]

@Dinu
Well that sounds like some of my cryptic responses. Why would you think it to be liberated from the glass body in normal mix? We do have a GC, Gas Chromatograph.

Thanks for the idea, now you talking

My theory is that the gas is produced because of a small plasma arc discharge in the diode body between the legs which would result in some kind of normal electrolysis but I might be wrong.

[DrStiffler]

My theory is that the gas is produced because of a small plasma arc discharge in the diode body between the legs which would result in some kind of normal electrolysis but I might be wrong.

@dinu
You keep pushing 'Normal Electrolysis', interesting.

Help me on you plasma thought process, please tell me where my attempt to understand is incorrect.

Lets see, the leads act as antennae bringing signal into the diode, the diode rectifies the AC into a peak DC which should be no higher in potential than the Peak of the AC. This polarized DC forms an AC plasma that passes through the glass body an perform 'Normal Electrolysis'??

Or maybe the diode is not even doing a rectification, by some magic it is increasing the coupled AC and amplifying it to a potential of which will pass through the glass and produce the 'Normal Electrolysis'?

Okay, what is you thought pattern?

[CosmicFarmer]

@Dinu - I'm kind of sloppy as you can tell by my videos and the diode was at an angle, and I saw the bubbles rising straight up as well as hugging the leg on their way up. Maybe some get generated on the leg, but most come from the point where the metal meets the glass. What do you think if we drilled down to the P/N junction? let some more bubbles out? Hmm, Also a transistor has 2 junctions, do you think a submerged transistor would have the same effect?

@DrStiffler - Wow! Singing tools! Hmm... Another possibility of water dissociation rests in magnets... Magic with Magnetism - magnetic electrolysis? But the permanent magnet could be replaced with coils, and your oscillator could power those coils... Maybe combine the two methods of diode and external coil? Just an out loud thought, I'm not putting in any requests.

"Exciting" stuff!