High Voltage from Thin Air?

[gmeast]

sec on 9 volt battery

Hi,

I finished investigating my first SEC using only chokes ... no custom coils. My initial attempt (see posting) did not get anything from the AV Plug, but now I have good output from that.

It seemed more important to light up a neon lamp than a bunch of diodes.

I re-oriented some parts, identified a problem with the protoboard and made an unimpressive video showing what I did. I hope it is entertaining.

Greg

Here's the video:

YouTube - first sec

The following picture went with this post ... sorry forgot,

Greg


voltage, frequency, waveform: probe gnd on V-, probe on output of 22uh choke (AVPlug input)

[Tecstatic]

@Tecstatic,

Sorry I did not see your last post as I was writing mine while you posted it.

Regarding the sharp edges, should we explore other geometries instead of cylinders then, perhaps two spheres one inside the other, with the outer sphere split into two (electrically) separate hemispheres. Heh, sounds like the popcorn ball v.2

I have no comment whether your suggestion works, I think the cylinders will be OK. I have one more geometry in my pocket... But first I need to build what I just posted and raise my level of understanding.

Also, you mention 1mm gap in your future SGate, why not use some dielectric then instead of air to ensure no gaps are bridged?

I will still use air to keep losses low and Q high.

You mentioned Phase Conjugate Mirror and AV plug and so after reading through your post, the two got put together in my mind with an equal sign between them.

Isn't the AV plug acting as a Phase Conjugate Mirror, and as such we actually need that effect to increase our standing wave energy?

This is not the way i view it, I consider the resonant circuit the phase conjugate mirror and the AV plug the harvester of the converted energy.

From my understanding, the Phase Conugate Mirror does not follow the physical total reflection rules but reflects back to the source along the same vector in the opposite direction, thus creating a standing wave.

In our case don't we get the reflection but there are losses, obviously due to conductivity/impedances, etc?

I do not know enough to comment this.

Although, that's good as this energy would keep growing and growing and growing if it weren't for the losses until the circuit blows up.

I do not agree, that's what we have a closed loop regulator for.

-----

My SEC + SGate has now been running 15 LEDs with weak light for 9.5 hours with an earth wire as the only external connection, and the start condition being less than 46mV on the 2200uF/50V capacitor.


Eric

[Tecstatic]

@amigo

I think I was writing before thinking on the air gap answer (at the least), sorry

Actually it has to be seen which loss is less: the loss in a short outer "tube" due to less gap and the dielectric isolation, or the loss due to damping of the waves due to a longer outer "tube" without dielectric materials other than air (for the same capacitance).

Eric

[amigo]

@Tecstatic, et al.

You might be interested to read this document...took me two hours to remember what it was called. (I guess I wasn't big into Alice in Wonderland story)

Through the looking glass with Phase Conjugation

[samedsoft]

@Tecstatic,

I have been working with SEC almost two years.. I have posted some my findings long ago...

I just wanted to share my ideas with you..

I can not to give my findings directly about SEC but I can ask questions to people if somebody makes another creative suggestion..

Which platform do you suggest for simulation? Can you share your project with all?

Do you have any hybrid simulation system that you can draw S-gate and it will calculate its circuit s-parameters?

I have found this one below, seems perfect for SEC simulation..

Direct transient co-simulation of a Step Recovery Diode (SRD) Pulse Generator


@Tecstatic, Amigo, Lidmotor, Dr.Stiffler, Otto, Gmeast,


Sometimes I compate S-GATE cavity with LASER cavity to create Coherent-same polarized-standing waves in RF?

Did you think S-GATE like that before?

I think gain happens in CAP or S-GATE with suitable trigger system...

So S-Gate might play very important role for a CEC>1 system?

Doctor named this thread as HV+Thin-Air right?

Why Thin Air?

Where does HV comes from and how?

Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey

[Tecstatic]

@Tecstatic,

I have been working with SEC almost two years.. I have posted some my findings long ago...
.
.
.
I can not to give my findings directly about SEC but I can ask questions to people if somebody makes another creative suggestion..

Assuming we both have something valuable to share, how much will actually be shared if I think just the same as you. "I can not to give my findings directly about SEC"

Besides I'm the rookie here, I have worked with the SEC for almost two weeks.

Let me repeat myself:

"I'm confident, that when you start working with the SEC circuit and report your findings, everything will be OK."

To me a simulating tool is only usable when my experience allows me to make a good model and evaluate the validity of the simulation. As long as I can simplify a situation and make progress without a simulation, I will. Time will tell, and I neither have a crystal ball nor the skills to use it

By the way this reminds me of a sign I once saw in a company, it stated:

"Theory and practice

Theory is when you know everything, and nothing works.
Practice is when everything works, but nobody knows why.

We have joined theory and practice - nothing works and nobody knows why."

No disrespect to science

--------------

@amigo

Thank you for the very interesting document, more to read

I remember Hector writing about RotoVerter experiments with a 75kW 3 phase motor, free wheeling at approx. 10 W input power.

He states you have to stay below 10kW to avoid changes in your local environment.
Much to learn still, the document may shed some light on this.

-----

20 hours now, cap voltage has dropped 15mV during the night. Is this due to the earth being between me an the sun or maybe a higher humidity, or a slightly lower temperature ?

Eric

[amigo]

@all

Good news, Dr.Stiffler will be back shortly.

He had problems posting, but Aaron came to the rescue (thanks!) and fixed the account.

[amigo]

Hi samedsoft,

I can not to give my findings directly about SEC but I can ask questions to people if somebody makes another creative suggestion..

I would like to know why can you NOT give your findings out. Dr.Stiffler did, and unless you have some written agreement with him, I can't see a reason why you could not disclose information, as the technology is not yours to begin with, thus you can't make claims to it.

Sometimes I compate S-GATE cavity with LASER cavity to create Coherent-same polarized-standing waves in RF?

Did you think S-GATE like that before?

I think gain happens in CAP or S-GATE with suitable trigger system...

So S-Gate might play very important role for a CEC>1 system?

Doctor named this thread as HV+Thin-Air right?

Why Thin Air?

Where does HV comes from and how?

I think that we need to stop thinking of things as separate. Everything we know of (and that we don't know of) is a wave.

Whether it's optical or electromagnetic, it's still a wave, the same kind of wave, just in a different spectrum.

That is why the document on Optical Phase Conjugation can apply to every other field as the same rules apply. Only the technology (application) would be different...

"High Voltage from Thin Air" is a figure of speech. An expression: "out of the thin air" means that something seemingly appears out of nowhere, as a kind of magic.

One moment there is nothing there you can see, and the next all of a sudden something appears.

[amigo]

I remember Hector writing about RotoVerter experiments with a 75kW 3 phase motor, free wheeling at approx. 10 W input power.

He states you have to stay below 10kW to avoid changes in your local environment.
Much to learn still, the document may shed some light on this.

-----

20 hours now, cap voltage has dropped 15mV during the night. Is this due to the earth being between me an the sun or maybe a higher humidity, or a slightly lower temperature ?

Could you please shed some light on who Hector is, to someone obviously living under a rock (me)?

Technically, if we speak about Odic forces, the energy should be higher as the Sun is generally interfering with them during the day.

Having said that, perhaps this is something else. Let's see what happens today, if the voltage goes back up. Then it would suggest that the geometry changes and that the Sun is the key element in that geometry.

Also note where the circuit is as moving it would affect the geometry as well (Long/Lat)...

[gmeast]

now what?

Hi all,

I'm laughing at myself while writing this post. I'm pretty sure that most researchers' 'secret', 'general goal' is to coax power from thin air using less power to cohere (to) the more abundant energy surrounding us.

The 7.4V from my 9 V battery and 53mA current draw as seen in my video translates into 0.3922 Watts. Is this good or bad? I think probably a dedicated driver circuit for neons uses less power but there's little room for improvement with those.

I am using just chokes and I am not at the 'sweet spot' of anything ... I know that. I discovered that I needed what amounted to an antenna (the wire in the video) to stabilize the circuit.

Suggestions please ... best next step? Thanks in advance,

Greg

[amigo]

I am using just chokes and I am not at the 'sweet spot' of anything ... I know that. I discovered that I needed what amounted to an antenna (the wire in the video) to stabilize the circuit.

Suggestions please ... best next step?

Personally I would replicate the basic 15-3 circuit exactly as it was done by Doc, and the next one with the air cores, and use that as a basis for further experimentation.

I know that not everyone has gone that route and instead used parts at hand, and had some success. But I believe that we all need to be on the same page first (same starting point) as this would make it easier for future replications as well.

Not sure how feasible that is but I think we can all help each other with some spare parts...

[gmeast]

next

Personally I would replicate the basic 15-3 circuit exactly as it was done by Doc, and the next one with the air cores, and use that as a basis for further experimentation.

I know that not everyone has gone that route and instead used parts at hand, and had some success. But I believe that we all need to be on the same page first (same starting point) as this would make it easier for future replications as well.

Not sure how feasible that is but I think we can all help each other with some spare parts...

Hi amigo,

Looking at the SEC 15-3 board in the PDF it looks like I built it that way (filter cap values, choke values, etc.) except for the Lb, 1ohm resistor and 1N4001 diode. I will concentrate on a tunable Lb.

meanwhile, @ all, following is scope capture of my SEC at 14.85 VDC ... not symmetrical or tuned yet but better sine wave and good voltage - 50Vper Div.

Thanks

Greg

[amigo]

message from Dr.Stiffler

While we are waiting for Doc to get his access back (still unable to post) here's an email from him including a Spice sim file, so we can get moving in the mean time:

This is an LTSpice (.asc) file. You need to insure you have spec for MPSA06 in your Spice.

Run this and probe voltage, current and power for the transistor, the 10k resistor and the power supply.

We can talk about this after you have run the sim and can see what a transient run looks like. You should find it of interest as this is the basic platform from which the Exciter is built.

If you need LTSpice, get it here and here is the LTSpice Tutorial.

The MPSA06 model links are:

ON Semi: http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MPSA06.SP3

Fairchild: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MP/MPSA06.pdf

To add the model edit with a text editor the file in C:\Program Files\LTC\LTSpiceIV\lib\cmp\standard.bjt and add your transistor model at the end.

For ON Semi:

.MODEL MPSA06 NPN(IS=6.03149e-15 BF=559.138 NF=0.841146 VAF=996.086 IKF=0.187838 ISE=1e-08 NE=3.53096 BR=43.984 NR=0.893292 VAR=1.45264 IKR=1e-05 ISC=3.06474e-11 NC=3.98114 RB=0.01 IRB=0.269152 RBM=0.01 RE=1e-05 RC=0.000928752 XTB=1.17305 XTI=1 EG=1.05 CJE=5.54912e-11 VJE=0.577764 MJE=0.313139 TF=5.4629e-10 XTF=23.7458 VTF=7.07849 ITF=4.69733 CJC=1.76218e-11 VJC=0.4 MJC=0.285166 XCJC=0.902334 FC=0.732277 CJS=0 VJS=0.75 MJS=0.5 TR=1e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1 mfg=ON)

For Fairchild:

.MODEL MPSA06 NPN (Is=8.324f Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Vaf=100 Bf=12.16K Ne=1.368 Ise=73.27f Ikf=.1096 Xtb=1.5 Br=11.1 Nc=2 Isc=0
Ikr=0 Rc=.25 Cjc=18.36p Mjc=.3843 Vjc=.75 Fc=.5 Cje=55.61p Mje=.3834 Vje=.75 Tr=72.15n Tf=516.1p Itf=.5
Vtf=4 Xtf=6 Rb=10 mfg=Fairchild)

Then restart your LTSpice and re-load the sim file.

And attached below is the sim file...I had to rename it to .doc, so make sure you change it back to .asc as in exciter00.asc.

[gmeast]

While we are waiting for Doc to get his access back (still unable to post) here's an email from him including a Spice sim file, so we can get moving in the mean time:


The MPSA06 model links are:

ON Semi: http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MPSA06.SP3

Fairchild: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MP/MPSA06.pdf

------------------

Hi amigo,

Thanks. I've never used spice so I have no idea how to download and incorporate the part specification into the program.

Help appreciated,

Greg

[amigo]

Hi amigo,

Thanks. I've never used spice so I have no idea how to download and incorporate the part specification into the program.

Help appreciated,

Greg

Please read my post above...

Thanks.