High Voltage from Thin Air?

[EgmQC]

Hi DrStiffler,

Which type of probe did you use for your spectrum analyzer in this video ?
YouTube - Spatial Coherence & Spatial Gate #1

Best Regards,
EgmQC

[mudwump]

LEM Speed

Please help me to understand something. I am really struggling with the LEM/TEM calculation. I do not understand how frequency can be used to determine that LEM is faster than the speed of light. This is really counter intuitive to me. I looked in Meyl's book and saw the description, but did I miss the explanation? Thanks ahead of time.

[lamare]

Please help me to understand something. I am really struggling with the LEM/TEM calculation. I do not understand how frequency can be used to determine that LEM is faster than the speed of light. This is really counter intuitive to me. I looked in Meyl's book and saw the description, but did I miss the explanation? Thanks ahead of time.

The basic formula:

All about Wavelength

"If you study waves, you will find that wavelength and frequency are related by an equation
Speed of the wave = Frequency x Wavelength "


The trick for calculation of propagation speed, is to create a standing wave of a known frequency in a medium with a known length. This way, you can calculate the wavelength, and since you know the frequency, you can calculate the speed of the wave with the formula above.

Wavelength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"A standing wave is an undulatory motion that stays in one place. A sinusoidal standing wave includes stationary points of no motion, called nodes, and the wavelength is twice the distance between nodes. The wavelength, period, and wave velocity are related as before, if the stationary wave is viewed as the sum of two traveling sinusoidal waves of oppositely directed velocities."


What happens if you transmit a wave into a medium, such as blowing on a horn like you see in my logo (and at my website www.tuks.nl ), is that you get reflections, just like light reflects on a mirror. These reflected waves travel back to your transmitter, where they reflect again. So, you basically have multiple waves, traveling back and forth in opposite directions.

When you get a standing wave, that must have specific frequencies, then at some specific points, these two waves cancel eachother out (a node) and at other specific points, they enforce one another (see the animation at wikipedia).


As said, these standing waves occur at specific frequencies, such that the wave "resonates" within the medium. Depending on the reflection characteristics of the end-points of the medium, the length of the medium for the lowest resonance frequency is either half a wave length or a quarter of a wave length. See the acoustic equivalent:
Resonances of open air columns

Normally, antenna's and the like, behave as half-open acoustic pipes, and so you know that the length of your antenna matches a quarter of a wave length for the first, lowest resonance frequency.

Now let's look at Tesla's calculation:


http://keelynet.com/tesla/00787412.pdf

"The earth's diameter passing trough the pole should be an odd multiple of the quarter wave length - that is, of the ratio between the velocity of light - and four times the frequency of the currents.
[...]
The most essential requirement is, however, that irrespective of frequency the wave or wave-train should continue for a certain interval of time, which I have estimated to be not less than one-twelfth or probably 0.08484 of a second and which is taken in passing to and returning from the region diametrically opposite the pole over the earth's surface with a mean velocity of about four hundred and seventy-one thousand two hundred and forty kilometers per second."

In this same patent, he also says:

"The lowest frequency would appear to be six per second, in which case there will be but one node, at or near the ground-plate."

Now, the diameter of the earth is about 12.750 km:
Basic Earth Facts - Facts About the Earth

So, for a frequency of 6 Hz, you have a wavelength of 4*12.750 = 51.000 km.

Fill in the formula, and you get a speed of 6 * 51.000 = 306.000 km/s.

Note that this is the case Tesla speaks about "but one node", which means the analogy of the closed pipe (1/4 wave length) is valid..

Now the other number mentioned by Tesla: 0,08484.
If you divide 1 by 0,08484, you get 11,79. In other words: this number corresponds to a frequency of 11.79.

Since he mentions at that frequency two poles, this means we're talking (multiples of) 1/2 wave length, hence the full wave length is 2 * 12.750 = 25.500 km.

So, we do fill in the formula again, and we get a speed of 11.79 * 25.500 =
300.645 km/s.

--::--

Another way of calculating the propagation speed is to simply divide the traveled distance of the wave by the time it took it to do that. In that case, you need to measure this time. This is what Tesla talks about in his patent. The time he mentioned, 0,08484 sec, as the time needed for the wave to travel back and forth trough the earth, so the traveled distance in 0,08484 sec equals 2 * 12.750 = 25.500 km.

With this, you can calculate the propagation speed as 25.500/0,08484 = 300.566 km/sec.

He also specifies this time as "1/12th of a second". With this number, you get a speed of 25.500 * 12 = 306.000 km/sec.


So, how he came to 471.240 km/s is anybody's guess. He may have been calculating with an earth diameter of 19.990 km.

[Parav]

The basic formula:

All about Wavelength

"If you study waves, you will find that wavelength and frequency are related by an equation
Speed of the wave = Frequency x Wavelength "


The trick for calculation of propagation speed, is to create a standing wave of a known frequency in a medium with a known length. This way, you can calculate the wavelength, and since you know the frequency, you can calculate the speed of the wave with the formula above.

Wavelength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"A standing wave is an undulatory motion that stays in one place. A sinusoidal standing wave includes stationary points of no motion, called nodes, and the wavelength is twice the distance between nodes. The wavelength, period, and wave velocity are related as before, if the stationary wave is viewed as the sum of two traveling sinusoidal waves of oppositely directed velocities."


What happens if you transmit a wave into a medium, such as blowing on a horn like you see in my logo (and at my website www.tuks.nl ), is that you get reflections, just like light reflects on a mirror. These reflected waves travel back to your transmitter, where they reflect again. So, you basically have multiple waves, traveling back and forth in opposite directions.

When you get a standing wave, that must have specific frequencies, then at some specific points, these two waves cancel eachother out (a node) and at other specific points, they enforce one another (see the animation at wikipedia).


As said, these standing waves occur at specific frequencies, such that the wave "resonates" within the medium. Depending on the reflection characteristics of the end-points of the medium, the length of the medium for the lowest resonance frequency is either half a wave length or a quarter of a wave length. See the acoustic equivalent:
Resonances of open air columns

Normally, antenna's and the like, behave as half-open acoustic pipes, and so you know that the length of your antenna matches a quarter of a wave length for the first, lowest resonance frequency.

Now let's look at Tesla's calculation:


http://keelynet.com/tesla/00787412.pdf

"The earth's diameter passing trough the pole should be an odd multiple of the quarter wave length - that is, of the ratio between the velocity of light - and four times the frequency of the currents.
[...]
The most essential requirement is, however, that irrespective of frequency the wave or wave-train should continue for a certain interval of time, which I have estimated to be not less than one-twelfth or probably 0.08484 of a second and which is taken in passing to and returning from the region diametrically opposite the pole over the earth's surface with a mean velocity of about four hundred and seventy-one thousand two hundred and forty kilometers per second."

In this same patent, he also says:

"The lowest frequency would appear to be six per second, in which case there will be but one node, at or near the ground-plate."

Now, the diameter of the earth is about 12.750 km:
Basic Earth Facts - Facts About the Earth

So, for a frequency of 6 Hz, you have a wavelength of 4*12.750 = 51.000 km.

Fill in the formula, and you get a speed of 6 * 51.000 = 306.000 km/s.

Note that this is the case Tesla speaks about "but one node", which means the analogy of the closed pipe (1/4 wave length) is valid..

Now the other number mentioned by Tesla: 0,08484.
If you divide 1 by 0,08484, you get 11,79. In other words: this number corresponds to a frequency of 11.79.

Since he mentions at that frequency two poles, this means we're talking (multiples of) 1/2 wave length, hence the full wave length is 2 * 12.750 = 25.500 km.

So, we do fill in the formula again, and we get a speed of 11.79 * 25.500 =
300.645 km/s.

--::--

Another way of calculating the propagation speed is to simply divide the traveled distance of the wave by the time it took it to do that. In that case, you need to measure this time. This is what Tesla talks about in his patent. The time he mentioned, 0,08484 sec, as the time needed for the wave to travel back and forth trough the earth, so the traveled distance in 0,08484 sec equals 2 * 12.750 = 25.500 km.

With this, you can calculate the propagation speed as 25.500/0,08484 = 300.566 km/sec.

He also specifies this time as "1/12th of a second". With this number, you get a speed of 25.500 * 12 = 306.000 km/sec.


So, how he came to 471.240 km/s is anybody's guess. He may have been calculating with an earth diameter of 19.990 km.

Lamare

Wow, great tutorial on the above -will put it in my archives.

I have learned so much from you and the Doctor on this thread. Keep up the good work .

PR

[mudwump]

Wave Propagation Velocity

Thank you lamare for taking the time to provide such a wonderful and concise description of wave measurement. I have read and re-read your posting and the links you provided and even more. So, I am going to attempt to explain what I have learned from an experimental approach. All, please jump in and let me know if I error in my thought process. If I use a setup similar to the Meyl device, with the only variable being the frequency from the SG. I first find the lowest frequency resonance; this will be the lowest TEM resonance measurement. For this experiment, let’s assume it is 4.7MHz. I can verify that this is the TEM measurement by blocking the signal and the receiver will, for practical purposes, stop receiving the signal. As for the second part of the experiment, I increase the frequency until a resonance is again observed. Let’s assume 7.2MHz. At that time I should be able to verify that it is the LEM resonance by attempting to block the signal in a faraday cage. If the two devices are still observed to be in resonance by the LED indicator on the receiver being lit, then I use that new frequency as the lowest LEM resonance. Since I have used the same device with the same distance between the transmitter and the receiver, I should be able to use a standard quarter wave equation to calculate the speed of propagation. For this calculation I am going to assume that the distance between the transmitter and the receiver is 10 meters.

4700000 = 4.7 MHz
7200000 = 7.2 MHz
4 is the conversion factor for the quarter wave
10 is the distance between the transmitter and the receiver

10 meters x 4 x 4700000 = 188000000 meters/sec or 0.62 c for the propagation speed for the TEM resonance
10 meters x 4 x 7200000 = 288000000 meters/sec or 0.96 c for the propagation speed for the LEM resonance

[DrStiffler]

Finding a coils Spatial Resonance

@All

I just placed a Part#1 video up on YT and it is being processed.

The video shows "Excess" Energy, but its really "Cohered Energy".

More to come, enjoy.....

YouTube - Finding Spatial Resonance Part #1

[EgmQC]

@All

I just placed a Part#1 video up on YT and it is being processed.

The video shows "Excess" Energy, but its really "Cohered Energy".

More to come, enjoy.....

YouTube - Finding Spatial Resonance Part #1

Amazing job DrStiffler

Best Regards,
EgmQC

[DrStiffler]

Finding Spatial Resonance Part#2

YouTube - Finding Spatial Resonance Part #2

[DrStiffler]

Finding Spatial Resonance Part #2

YouTube - Finding Spatial Resonance Part #3

[Tecstatic]

@Tecstatic

I'm leaning towards PNP-NPN pair (e.g. mpsa06-mpsa56 if I remember correctly).

Doc, it this more of a "two-stage" or rather a "two-cycle" design?..

ABC

@All

I have not had the time I dreamed of for this thread. so I'm way behind reading and answering, I'm sorry.

Yesterday and today I got some time, but I felt more like doing some experiments.

I made a PCB layout with a total of 64 10mm LEDs in 4 AV plug rows, and assembled with the 140.000mcd@20ma white LEDs.

I tried out some tuning, and got the idea to add a diode between the minus side of the LEDs and the decoupled power+ near the MPSA06 inside the power filter.

Now it is not single wire anymore, but for approx. 10% more current, the light output doubled. Please let me hear if other try this.

I just put the LUX-meter sensor upon the LEDs, and it went from 3000 to 6000 LUX by adding the diodes ( a total of 4 diodes ).

Too bad, as it was too much for the LEDS, the intensity dropped to 5000 LUX which is the new max intensity. Hereafter I will tune from lower voltage supply, and not exceed 4500 LUX, the LEDs are a bit expensive.

@ABC
I will be glad if you share your diagram. I have been thinking about how to make a two stage SEC. I have considered a solution with a MPSA06 as oscillator and and complementary MOSFETs
IRFR220 and IRFR9220 for output, lying ready in the drawer. Output configuration like Bedinis Window motor driver.

The FETs are quite fast, and are 200V types, so I can theoretically get up to 400V on the primary of a transformer, hopefully an air core will work well. Then the secondary have two balanced ends for connecting LEDs. It may be worth a try.

@Doc Nice educational videos. in the first video you demonstrated the shilding by your hand, but not for the 1.5 frequency, according to Meyl that can not be shielded.

But for your setup I guess the spheres are too close one another, so you can not shield without detuning.

Eric

[DrStiffler]

@All

I have not had the time I dreamed of for this thread. so I'm way behind reading and answering, I'm sorry.

Yesterday and today I got some time, but I felt more like doing some experiments.

I made a PCB layout with a total of 64 10mm LEDs in 4 AV plug rows, and assembled with the 140.000mcd@20ma white LEDs.

I tried out some tuning, and got the idea to add a diode between the minus side of the LEDs and the decoupled power+ near the MPSA06 inside the power filter.

Now it is not single wire anymore, but for approx. 10% more current, the light output doubled. Please let me hear if other try this.

I just put the LUX-meter sensor upon the LEDs, and it went from 3000 to 6000 LUX by adding the diodes ( a total of 4 diodes ).

Too bad, as it was too much for the LEDS, the intensity dropped to 5000 LUX which is the new max intensity. Hereafter I will tune from lower voltage supply, and not exceed 4500 LUX, the LEDs are a bit expensive.

@ABC
I will be glad if you share your diagram. I have been thinking about how to make a two stage SEC. I have considered a solution with a MPSA06 as oscillator and and complementary MOSFETs
IRFR220 and IRFR9220 for output, lying ready in the drawer. Output configuration like Bedinis Window motor driver.

The FETs are quite fast, and are 200V types, so I can theoretically get up to 400V on the primary of a transformer, hopefully an air core will work well. Then the secondary have two balanced ends for connecting LEDs. It may be worth a try.

@Doc Nice educational videos. in the first video you demonstrated the shilding by your hand, but not for the 1.5 frequency, according to Meyl that can not be shielded.

But for your setup I guess the spheres are too close one another, so you can not shield without detuning.

Eric

@Tecstatic
You missed a very important point and that is that my demo is truly 'Wireless' where Meyl's id a 'Single Wire' system. LEM waves work different between a truly wireless and a single wire system.

[Tecstatic]

@Tecstatic
You missed a very important point and that is that my demo is truly 'Wireless' where Meyl's id a 'Single Wire' system. LEM waves work different between a truly wireless and a single wire system.

Doc
Thank you for answering.

Please excuse my ignorance, being low on reading the gigantic amount of references lamare posted ( Thank you lamare :-) ).

I did notice it is wireless, so you employ resonance between masses at 1.5 x frequency, right ?

I just wanted to see demonstrated that LEMW is not shield-able. But I guess it requires so much distance that the shield does not interfere with the resonance frequencies.

I don't think it is the case, but from your first video from post #808 where you "kill the receiver", how can I really know you are shielding and not tuning the sender to another frequency with the presence of your hand ? Have you tried re-tuning the sender frequency with your hand in shielding position ?

Meyl's demonstration I saw in person, he actually did fully wireless. He used the water in which the boat was sailing as mass. While we mounted the setup he changed the frequency slightly, and by adjusting the length of the "telescopic antenna" with the sphere on top, I could tune back to resonance.

Eric

[lamare]

Thank you lamare for taking the time to provide such a wonderful and concise description of wave measurement. I have read and re-read your posting and the links you provided and even more. So, I am going to attempt to explain what I have learned from an experimental approach. All, please jump in and let me know if I error in my thought process. If I use a setup similar to the Meyl device, with the only variable being the frequency from the SG. I first find the lowest frequency resonance; this will be the lowest TEM resonance measurement. For this experiment, let’s assume it is 4.7MHz. I can verify that this is the TEM measurement by blocking the signal and the receiver will, for practical purposes, stop receiving the signal. As for the second part of the experiment, I increase the frequency until a resonance is again observed. Let’s assume 7.2MHz. At that time I should be able to verify that it is the LEM resonance by attempting to block the signal in a faraday cage. If the two devices are still observed to be in resonance by the LED indicator on the receiver being lit, then I use that new frequency as the lowest LEM resonance. Since I have used the same device with the same distance between the transmitter and the receiver, I should be able to use a standard quarter wave equation to calculate the speed of propagation. For this calculation I am going to assume that the distance between the transmitter and the receiver is 10 meters.

4700000 = 4.7 MHz
7200000 = 7.2 MHz
4 is the conversion factor for the quarter wave
10 is the distance between the transmitter and the receiver

10 meters x 4 x 4700000 = 188000000 meters/sec or 0.62 c for the propagation speed for the TEM resonance
10 meters x 4 x 7200000 = 288000000 meters/sec or 0.96 c for the propagation speed for the LEM resonance

@Mudwump,

You are a long way in the right direction, but....
there are actually three 'things' that can be resonating:

1. your transmitter coil
2. your transmission medium
3. your receiver coil

In your calculations, you assume that the transmission medium is actually in resonance, which is usually not the case.

Maybe it's good to think of the following analogy. You span a rope between two horizontal points, and to the rope, you attach two equal pendulums. When you swing one of the pendulums, the rope will swing along with it, and transfer some energy to the other one. If both pendulums are equal, at some point they will resonate together, and it really doesn't matter which of the two you are 'ticking' to keep it going. In other words: in resonance, both are "transmitter" as well as "reciever".
Only at very specific frequencies, when the resonance frequency of the pendulums matches that of the top rope, both the pendulums and the rope (the transmission medium) will resonate at the same time.

This is exactly the same with two coils in resonance. You can create a situation that you have the coils and the transmission medium in resonance, but that is not easy to do.

Now let's assume for a moment that the propagation speed of the EM waves is the same in a coil as in the air. Then, you could simply take two pieces of wire of 10 m long, wind two coils with them, place them 10 m apart, and the coils as well as the transmission medium would have the same resonance frequency.

However, in practice EM waves can take a "shortcut" in a coil speeding them up, and they can be slowed down as well. The first effect is due to what is known as "parasite capacitance". Every two pieces of metal form a capacitor, which is usually a very small value. However, in a coil, this value is significant at frequencies around the self resonance frequency of the coil. At those frequencies, the wave does not actually have to travel all the way around the coil to move to the next winding, but it sort of jumps over directly. This way, the propagation speed that appears from the outside, is higher then the speed of light. It's not so much that the wave really travels faster, it's more that it takes a shortcut.

The slowing down effect is not 100% clear to me. However, I think it must be related to the coupled induction between two wires. Whenever a current travels trough a coil wire, it will create a magnetic field around itself, which induces a current in the wires (windings) that surround the wire. Somehow, this effects slows down the propagation speed.

So, we have two effects that work opposite to eachother with respect to the propagation speed of a wave trough a coil. Experiments have shown that the height/diameter proportion of a coil determines which one of these effects "wins". For a flat "pancake" coil, height divided by diameter is very small. Then the "slowing down" effect is maximal, and you get a propagation speed that is significantly lower then the speed of light.
For a long, thin coil, the "speeding up" effect is maximal, and you get a propagation speed that is significantly higher then the speed of light.

For more info, see one of my earlier posts:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post59599

Somewhere in between, you have a height/diameter proportion that results in a coil propagation speed of 1 (for TEM waves(!)). According to the formula, this happens for a h/d of 0.6. So, if you would take 10 m of wire, and wind a coil with a height/diameter proportion of 0.6 and place those 10 m apart, you can create resonance in both the coils and the transmission medium, using TEM waves.

However, if you don't design your coils like this, it's very unlikely that the transmission medium actually resonates along with your coils. What you're measuring then, is the resonance frequency of your coils, not that of your transmission medium.

However, I'm pretty certain that it is exactly these coil resonance frequencies that differ for LE(M) vs. TEM, because for LE(M) waves, the magnetic component is minimal, so propably the "slowing down" effect does not occur (as strongly) for these waves in/around your coil windings. So, the distinction between LE(M) and TEM resonance frequencies most likely occurs in the coils, *not* in the transmission medium.


If you're interested in a simple, but amazing, pracical visualisation of 3D resonance / standing waves, I refer to the following video by Nassim Harramein:

(PART 1) Nassim Haramein at the Rogue Valley Metaphysical Library. 2003. (4 HRS)

The part I mean starts at about 3:40

He shows what happens if you take a simple string and rotate it. I have tried this myself using a drilling-machine and a piece of electric wire. My kids were amazed by the results....

[slayer007]

YouTube - Finding Spatial Resonance Part #3

Great videos Doc.

I can't wait to see more.

I was tring some thing similar with the SEC and some antennas.
I noticed the FL I was using is brighter at the reciever antenna.

The antennas I was using were only about six inches away from each other.

But the fl is brighter at the reciever antena than it is at the transmitter antenna.

[DrStiffler]

Doc
Thank you for answering.

Please excuse my ignorance, being low on reading the gigantic amount of references lamare posted ( Thank you lamare :-) ).

I did notice it is wireless, so you employ resonance between masses at 1.5 x frequency, right ?

Yes, that is correct, although as stated the resonance frequency changes with all parasitic presents. As you take away its 'Free Space' it moves closer to classical and you begin to suffer loss and tuning sharpness in the LEM.

I just wanted to see demonstrated that LEMW is not shield-able. But I guess it requires so much distance that the shield does not interfere with the resonance frequencies.

I was going to put up a video that did that and did not as the only time I can see the effect is when it is single wire. I have yet to see it in the totally wireless.

I don't think it is the case, but from your first video from post #808 where you "kill the receiver", how can I really know you are shielding and not tuning the sender to another frequency with the presence of your hand ? Have you tried re-tuning the sender frequency with your hand in shielding position ?

Of course...

Meyl's demonstration I saw in person, he actually did fully wireless. He used the water in which the boat was sailing as mass. While we mounted the setup he changed the frequency slightly, and by adjusting the length of the "telescopic antenna" with the sphere on top, I could tune back to resonance.

I wish I could have seen it live. Anyway are you saying that he did not for sure have the pool grounded? What is to the story that it had to be salt water (NaCl added)?


Eric

See answers above in the body of text..