Magnet motor using repeling magnets (or radial magnets if availbale).

[broli]

This is pretty much a copy and paste of a thread I just made at ou.com

I did some "experiments" today and I discovered something interesting. Currently I'm heavily into the Faraday type motor (still going very slow due the lack of uhhm...EVERYTHING) and all but I discovered a motor that doesn't need any electrical power. That is it uses magnets only Now you can describe it in two ways. One is using the Lorentz force law and the other is probably more intuitive to everyone which is plain logic. So I'll use plain logic and drawings Grin. If I could describe it one sentence I would say...It uses torque in a clever way. Currently still making the drawings.

Oke I'm finally done with the "presentation". Here it is (and attached for security purposes)...

http://ziosproject.com/NJ/mdip9.PNG

Please follow the panel numbers for convince sake. I tried my best to keep it simple and not boring. I would also like to place a request, anyone with the materials at hand willing to build it?

PS: Why are attached .png files shrank in resolution?

[Joit]

Maybe because it s even not bigger in your Paint prog ?
Pls can you redo it, and make maybe a gif or jpg?
I can save it, and open it by me, but still unreadable :/

[broli]

Maybe because it s even not bigger in your Paint prog ?
Pls can you redo it, and make maybe a gif or jpg?
I can save it, and open it by me, but still unreadable :/

Didn't you notice the link in the quote? This one is the full sized one.

[Joit]

Oh well, no i didnt see it.

But i dont think, that will work.
The middle Magnet will still stay stable, there is no drag into a Circle direction,
and the other Force will only stay at the Arm or Amature, where the small Magnet is fixed.

[broli]

The small magnet has a torque applied to it. You can transfer this torque to another point this is pure mechanics.

[ray stewart]

re mag motor

just to totally convince myself i built it and it DOES NOT WORK

[sucahyo]

@ray stewart, it doesnt move?

PS: Why are attached .png files shrank in resolution?

Maybe because it converted to jpg. And when the result file size is too big, it shrinked. I avoid post png again after knowing it converted to jpg.

post again as jpg

[broli]

just to totally convince myself i built it and it DOES NOT WORK

Ray, any video or pictures? I'm actually surprised you have radially magnetized magnets.

Attached is the electromagnet version, and as you can see it looks like the principle behind a dc motor. So if you can accept that a dc motor works why would this then not work??? You'd be denying the very fact that a dc motor works.

[ray stewart]

magnetic motor

i used about 100 iron ferite magnets superglued to a board centerbearing from cd motor 2 circles of magnets inner and outer
piece of timber mounted to center bearing and moving magnet.
does not move
if you spin in either direction it comes to rest in same time.
then tried neo magnets on roter but no diferent
this toy has now been packed up it took about 1 hour to build .
sorry no pics
havent worked out how to post pictures or drawings can you point me in the right direction for this

[broli]

There's a button on the bottom in the window where you write a post that says "Manage Attachments". If you click on it you can browse your own pc and upload pictures to it and they will automatically attach to your current post.

Edit: I attached a simulation of the setup you speak about. I would recommend not doing this as the field seems very random and non uniform. Also add a compass to the experiment or something to see how the field looks like when going in a circle. Today I will illustrate how one can achieve a pretty uniform radial field using axially magnetized magnets that repel each other. This is based on my previous threads.

Edit2: Idea of using repelling magnets is attached + simulation of how the field would look like of a single cross section.

Edit3: Attached a simplification of the repelling idea. The outer ring is not really needed it just strengthens the field for more torque, but concept can work 2 cylindrical magnets repelling each other.

[broli]

Still not convinced people? Now I understand why people chase for patents. When they share their ideas they get ignored.

[Joit]

Wow.
Better stop to blame People, when they look in Patents after Devices, what work, and dont bring on Ideas, what looks like a 12 year old made them.

Thats the Point where my Tummy start rotating.
I can only say Sorry to Ray, that he did spend his Time and Work and Material, to build something,
what dont work, and i didnt explain it further, why it wont work, and you wanna blame Peoples when they are not amazed about it.
If you would have a little clue about Magnets, you would know, that this for sure dont work.

Better you sit down, spend your Time, and build some Things before you go on, and share some great Ideas, where you try to suggest, it are working Devices.

I am Sorry, Ray

[sucahyo]

Still not convinced people? Now I understand why people chase for patents. When they share their ideas they get ignored.

I play around with your picture and add F3 which is the movement you talking about.

What is your idea to make F1 > F2 ?

[broli]

@sucahyo, you should add up their torque not their force quantity.

@all, I'm sorry for acting like a prick.

Edit:sucahyo, I made a simulation video in wm2d to show you that there still is rotation if you move the point of rotation. The video shows one magnet pinned in the middle and the other off centered. All forces are equal in this sim.It doesn't matter where you pin the magnet AS LONG as the new pinning point is along the line connecting the points the forces act on, the torque remains the same size.

http://ziosproject.com/NJ/exvid51.avi

[Joit]

Hi.
I wouldnt look at other Threads, when they do a Patent-link-battle.
I bet, there dont even the half read any of them, and i would ignore it,
when you dont need them.

But the Problem at the Magnets is, when you look after Lorenz Force,
it only appears when Current moves through an Inductor, means there is a moving Field.
Magnets have pretty stable Fields and there is no moving of the Field.
Now, when you put like here 2 Rings around, the Forces/Field will go from outside as straight Lines to the Center,
the small Magnet at the Middle will be attracted to the Field inside, but the Point of Rotating will still stay at the middle of the small Magnet at the Axis.

You can try it with your Arm, when you try to bend your Hand, and push with your other Hand against it, the Resistance will be at your Wrist, and the Power you need at your Bow is the same and same Direction, as you use at your Hand.
But the Center/Point of Rotating is at your Wrist.

At this Setup its similar, the Force from the Rings go to the Center, and the small Magnet only want to Turn around itself, to align with the lower Field.
But the Focus will be at the middle of the small Magnet.

And Magnets are even very tricky.
I did build up once a configuration, what did work in a half Circle, but after i made it around, it did build up a new Point, where it seems, the whole Force did concentrate there, to dont let the Rotor turn.