Magnet motor using repeling magnets (or radial magnets if availbale).

[broli]

But do we agree on if this was used with a current loop it would work? Or do you also not agree on that?

[Joit]

I still dont,
its still, that the Field actually dont move, and dont create a drag at a rotating direction.
The Focus will still stay at the center from the smaller Magnets.

A lot work for some nice Pictures :/

Speaker Magnets would probatly have a Field, what you want to have to, mażbe you can get once a few.

[broli]

If you do the simple Lorentz force calculations you'll see you need at least a 1 Tesla field or higher to get 1 N which is equivalent with 100 grams of weight. So we're talking about pretty strong magnets here or the thing would just not spin due to friction.

Joit please study the Lorentz force, faraday motor, rail gun, ampere's longitudinal magnetic force... if you want to make constructive comments. This is not hard but you are denying basic facts.

Btw the drawings are not hard to do for me, I used to be a 3d designer in my spare time that is why I lack skill in the building department.

[Joit]

Well, i give you my Opinion, and you can take it or not, but you dont need to tell me, i should study Lorenz Force to make constructive Comments.

I play enough around with Magnets, to see, when something works or not.
Therefor i dont need to study theoretical some Laws, where all seems so easy, but where no practical knowledge behind is.

The Power of the Magnets do not change much, its the Field, what is allways the same, N here, S there, and you will get the same Results, if its stronger or some weaker.


Really, just take some Speaker Magnets, fix them, and hold a Magnet beside, and you will see, what it does.
And for sure, it does not turn around the other Magnet.

[broli]

I have experimented with a setup today but quickly realized the resources that were used were limited. I used four palm sized speaker magnets in repulsion and tried with both a permanent magnet and a electromagnet. I quickly realized that all my parameters were too little.

I used 4 D-type batteries in series for power. But when connecting the coil to the batteries it merely got tickled in the magnetic field of the ferrite magnets. Then I used some nail sized neodymium magnets I had laying around and it started jumping around nicely. So I had to choose between either buying large neodymium magnets or keeping the ferrite magnets and amping up the current/windings/ wire length. I think the most wise decision (but probably not economical) would be buying 2 neodymium ring magnets. This alone can make the formula 20 times stronger without changing anything.

[catchdelta]

a few thoughts on the idea

hi broli,
i spent most of the past summer having a go with the whole "magnetic vacuum energy extraction" nuttiness. after a few months of gedanken experiments (made mostly while riding my bicycle), in short, i came up with exactly the solution you've posted here. it seems to me, intuitively and geometrically, that it could work. in addition, i wrote some simulation code and that also suggests a similar result.

one issue i should mention up front: if the loop is in a *purely* radial field (i.e., a field confined to the gap between two co-axial poles), then the torques produced by the "near" and "far" legs of the current loop will scale inversely with radius, and this scaling acts to exactly cancel the desired net torque we're looking for. however, if the loop is placed in a field that expands both radially *and* axially (i'll call this a "hyper-expanded field" mostly because it sounds cool , then the two torques scale differently, leaving a net torque about the central pivot point - which is, of course, what we want.

i too have experimented with a "radial field" torus PM, mounted on a bearing, and using both a neodymium PM equivalent loop and an actual current loop. negative results in both cases. but read on.

there are several possible reasons why.

first, the "radial field" magnet i have is constructed as a ring consisting of a number (about 10, i think) of discrete wedge-shaped permanent magnets...and it turns out the field from such a configuration is not very radial - the flux is clearly threading back to the "inner" poles where the wedges are joined. i have a magnetometer and will measure this...but at present it's clear that this inhomogeneity could be causing issues.

second, i ran into the same problem as you did when using an actual current loop instead of a neodymium PM as the torque element: even ten amps generates a loop field insufficient to rotate the ring against my initial bearing friction (yes, the usual CD motor bearing). however, i have recently built a pin-type bearing that has much lower friction - but have yet to test the current loop again with this improved bearing.

third, there is a possibility that a permanent magnet cannot be used as the torque element, because there may be an issue in the fact that such permanent magnets generate their fields via the collective action of microscopic spins. the analogy between a current loop and a permanent magnet may break down when applied in the configuration we're proposing. my simulations suggest that the torque from a permanent magnet element will be less than that of an "equivalent" open, current-carrying loop, but (crucially) appears to converge on a finite value greater than zero (maybe reduced by something like sqrt(2)?). so a permanent magnet may yet work.

this suggests again that the original issue i discussed, namely field inhomogeneities, could be the primary reason the silly thing still won't spin.

nevertheless, i remain cautiously optimistic.

best regards,
catchdelta

[catchdelta]

yes, i do agree. this is basically the idea, at least given that the flux lines are diverging faster than r^1. if it doesn't work, i'm missing something fundamental.

wouldn't be the first time, but...

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

I was just reading some patents about NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance) magnet configurations, and they all seek to create a uniform/homogeneous magnetic field. They use magnetic fields at 90 degrees to each other; a tube shape of radial magnetic field, with basically a end cap with an axial field

for example:
Long, narrow, uniform magnetic field ... - Google Patent Search

perhaps if you cap off the open sides of the ring arangement with a repulsive field, it would contain the flux better and strengthen/homogenize it

[Mr.Huck]

Magnetic Eddy Effect?

I was just reading some patents about NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance) magnet configurations, and they all seek to create a uniform/homogeneous magnetic field. They use magnetic fields at 90 degrees to each other; a tube shape of radial magnetic field, with basically a end cap with an axial field

for example:
Long, narrow, uniform magnetic field ... - Google Patent Search

perhaps if you cap off the open sides of the ring arangement with a repulsive field, it would contain the flux better and strengthen/homogenize it

Does this reduce or eliminate Magnetic Eddy Effect?

Thanks in advance.

[tjnlsn255]

This looks a lot like a Kundel Magnet Motor to me....

YouTube - Kundel Motor Amperage is NOT effected by a load.

This motor works very well.....

Hopes and Dreams....

Todd

[gravityblock]

Hidden Momentum!

Hidden momentum, field momentum, and electromagnetic impulse

Where is this “hidden momentum” located, and what is its nature? Hidden momentum is purely mechanical (Although it arises most often in electromagnetic contexts, it has nothing to do with electrodynamics), is intrinsically relativistic, and occurs in systems with internally moving parts such as current loops. Electric and magnetic fields possess momentum regardless of whether they are static or they change in time. The above publication demonstrates how this hidden momentum always cancels the electromagnetic momentum, in the static case, and draws some general conclusions about the nature of this hidden momentum.

Is this hidden momentum canceling the field momentum in some of your designs?

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this.

Thanks,

GB