MYLOW121363's Johnson motor

[tjnlsn255]

Would the same thing happen if the stator magnet was a pulsed electro-magnet....interesting......

[cody]

Yes, I think the same thing would happen with an electro magnet, because you are still dragging a magnetic field across another, so its going to want to reorientate in that special way i was talking about. But thats a good question. I think the only way we can beat that weakening magnet is to work with it, not against it. Set up the rotor magnet so that its already in the correct (special way) that its going to be aligned anyways and i think you will have it whipped.

I may be wrong here, and there may be other ways to get around it. But if you do the experiment i posted it will make perfect sense on the direction the magnets will naturally align themselves. So i think it may just be a matter of working with that concept to keep the magnets strong.

[tjnlsn255]

Hi Cody,

A couple of thoughts......

- If we use powerful Neo magnets they are already magnetized so maybe they will not change as fast or as much....

- Maybe we spin the wheel in opposite directions every once in a while to reverse the effect.....

Have a most excellent evening.....

Tj

[cody]

TJ,
I have been wondering about neo's too. I bet it would take longer for them to be effected, but i think over time they will still be subject to this natural phenomena. If you look back, it has always been mylows weakest magnet that gets demagnetized, i bet the other magnets were effected to, just not enough to notice. Spinning the wheel backwards may be a possible solution to counteract this. Im still thinking that there is a way to position the magnets to take advantage of the effect, instead of the current positioning which is killing the magnet in a short period of time. The correct placement might actually do just the opposite and make the magnets stronger. But at this point your guess is as good as mine Personally im still just trying to get the thing to work I seen that Rick made it on sterlings page, thats sweet! Hopefully his hard work will help someone get this thing going.

you have a great night too!

cody

[rickoff]

Reply to Cody:

Hi Cody,

You are right on the mark in your analysis of what is going on with MYLOW's magnets going weak. Not only that, but alnico magnets require keepers whenever possible, to help prolong their magnetization strength. Neo magnets won't suffer these problems. Neos only tend to weaken if subjected to strong electrical currents, or if they are heated or hammered. I think that use of neos is going to be what makes MYLOW's HJ setup work reliably and powerfully. I have heard back from the company that makes the NEOFORM bonded magnets, and they are studying my drawings, and said they will get back to me shortly. In the meantime, I've been thinking that maybe we can try some experiments using neodymium arc magnets from computer hard drives. The older computers have the best ones, and are continuous arcs, while the newer ones have two magnets with an air gap that form an arc on a backing plate. All come with the magnets mounted on a backing plate with holes that make mounting and alignment quite easy. Best part about these is that they can usually be scavenged at your local recycling center, or you can buy them on eBay for next to nothing. I just bought 8 neo arc magnets for $2, and this is typical. Using one of these for the stator magnet, we may be able to get away with using some small and inexpensive neos for the rotor magnets. I'll have to give some consideration to sizing aspects, and will post more on that later. Here's a photo of some hard drive magnet assemblies, and further info:


Edit: Actually, the price on these assembled units is $2.00 each, plus shipping. I ordered one unit (2 neos arcs) and received these April 17th. They are of high quality, very strong, nicely plated, and 1/4 inch in thickness (not counting the backing plates, which are also hefty and 1/4 inch thick. So $1 per magnet is certainly well worth the price, even with shipping added. I also purchased a lot of 6 neo arcs from another seller on eBay, for a cost of $2.50 for the lot, as I wanted to have several sizes and strengths to play around with so I can find the best overall effect.
LOT OF 6 HARD DRIVE MAGNETS VERY STRONG Neodymium - eBay (item 350191421348 end time May-16-09 18:10:09 PDT)
These are not as hefty, and most have a thickness of 1/16 inch, but these too are quite strong. When two of these are placed together, it is extremely difficult to slide them apart. I imagine that the 1/4 inch thick magnets would be next to impossible to separate if brought together in attraction.

Incidentally, Cody, I had been talking with Ash a few days before you posted the bike wheel with the particle board rotor, and had suggested pretty much the same thing, so was glad to see someone else had their thinking cap on. It's so easy to find free bike wheels, and the particle board is inexpensive and offers a nice flat surface. The weight will give some heft to offer a nice flywheel effect that will help to keep up rotation and move past dead spots. Just one suggestion - it would be best to cut some wide wedge shaped slots in the board to leave "spokes" so that weight is relieved towards the inside of the circle, and is concentrated mostly at the outer perimeter where it will be of most benefit - kind of a mag wheel effect.

Best regards,

Rick

[cody]

Hi Rick,
You have got some great ideas there. Im really glad to hear that neo's will not degauss like alnico's, i wasnt sure about that one I have finaly taken some time to read over johnson's patents. After reading the patents, i think i see a common problem the replicatiors are making (including myself). We are all getting a very lumpy action, but Mylow dosnt, his has pretty smooth transitions. Johnson talks about it being important to keep some distance between the rotor and stator to maintain a smoothness, so i think we are all placing our stators to close to our rotors. Just a thought

Thanks,
cody

[rickoff]

Reply to Cody:

Hi Cody,

Yes, the stator position is critical to smooth operation, and I believe that the use of high permeability plates is also important. You will notice that MYLOW's most recent vids show him using bar magnets, and this is also how he started out in the beginning. It works, and appears to work very well, although he only had 2 groups of bar magnets installed 180 degrees apart on the rotor. With short intervening gaps, as in his alnico magnet rotor layouts, it seems that rotation would continue past the "sticky spot" where the force is opposing rotation. That spot can be seen in this video as the point where the next group of magnets is approaching the vicinity of the stator magnet. I think that some effective shielding could be installed to shield the interaction between the stator magnet and the first rotor magnet of each group. Once that point is passed, the rotational force is quite good. If you start at 2:22 elapsed time in this video, you can see that the rotational force is excellent. YouTube - (NEW VIDEO #1) Projectmagma (Mylow) Magnet Motor

You will also note that the stator magnet has been raised higher.

Rick

[rickoff]

To Cody:

Hi Cody,

I'm assuming that by now you have had a chance to try out a few magnet layouts on your rotor. You mentioned "lumpy motion," and I am wondering if that was with this rotor or the smaller PVC one you pictured earlier in the thread. What are you currently using for the stator magnet and the rotor magnets? Any successful directional movement achieved?

Rick

[Joit]

Rickoff these Harddrive magents, i dont like them, they have anyhow strange magnetizing.
They have left side north, middle south, then north again, then south, like 2 half magnets stick together.
At the other Side its opposite.
Best i can do with it, is to stick something on it, because they act weird with her Field.
Or cut them in half, to have Northpole areas for a Bedini.

I wish, it would be easy to make own Magnets.

[cody]

Rick,
I havnt really gotten a chance to mess with the new wheel yet, i was referring to my previous setup. I have been real busy with school and work lately, hopefully tonight i can really get to play with it. Im going to be using ceramic mags on the rotor 7/8" x 1 7/8" x 3/8" (lows). My stator mag consists of 2 cylinder neo's 1 1/2" x 1/2". I have a small angled steel wedge between the two mags so it lays with a small arc, kind of like a banana with a total length of about 3 1/4" Do you know if ceramic mags can loose their strength like alnico's?

cody

[jibbguy]

Ceramics are better at holding their Gauss according to the chart on page "3-12" of this doc on "Hall Effect sensor Applications" (it's a PDF). Although it is also a question of "Grade" for all types.

http://www.melexis.com/Asset/Hall_Ap...Link_3715.aspx

The "Coercive Force" value / column is the determiner for demag according to these authors.

[rickoff]

Reply to Joit:

Rickoff these Harddrive magents, i dont like them, they have anyhow strange magnetizing.
They have left side north, middle south, then north again, then south, like 2 half magnets stick together.
At the other Side its opposite.
Best i can do with it, is to stick something on it, because they act weird with her Field.
Or cut them in half, to have Northpole areas for a Bedini.

I wish, it would be easy to make own Magnets.

Hi Joit,

I think you are referring to a hard drive magnet that is made up of two symmetrical magnets attached to a backing plate, with an air space between the two magnets. What you need is a single continuous arc magnet, and these are easiest to find in old hard drives. They are also more powerful than the newer ones. The continuous arc is "C" shaped, and has north and south poles at the ends. In the center of the magnet, the forces cancel each other out. If you place the magnet on a table and move a compass around it, the compass will point to each end, but when aligned with the center it will not point at the center. Instead, it will point to the magnet ends, showing that the magnet is axially magnetized (through the length).

Rick

[rickoff]

Reply to Cody:

Rick,
Do you know if ceramic mags can loose their strength like alnico's?

cody

Hi Cody,

Jibbguy is correct, ceramics do hold up better than alnico magnets, although they too will become weaker over time, especially when used in concert with your neo stator mag. Still fine for experimentation, though.

Best,

Rick

[cody]

Rick,
Sorry i missed your question about directional movement earlier, i was in a hurry out the door. But yes i was talking about the previous setup mainly, although i have already seen similar results with the new wheel for the little that i have gotten to mess with it. Its actually very easy to get it going through a few sets, its really just a matter of getting in there and getting a feel for what it likes and spend some time with it. It naturally wants to go in one direction. I really do believe that some very simple magnets can be used, because the results i have seen are just as good as those who have spent a lot on channel mags. Mylow said that he stumbled on it kind of on accident and it just started working. Then after he had it, he could reproduce it again and again. So maybe its just going to be a matter of messing with it long enough till i stumble upon it too Anyways im free tonight and i think im going to log some time on the wheel

thanks,
cody

[cody]

Update

Just wanted to put up some of the stuff ive been up to. Ive finished my wheel setup. Rick i took your advice about the flywheel, thanks The first pic is what i am using for my stator magnet(specs posted above). You can see i have my rotor mags a little bit different than what has been posted, i just started where i felt it might be good and then started changing it and letting the wheel tell me what it needed. Its interesting how changing a configuration in one place can effect preformance in another. Im really just trying to get a feel for it right now. Im going to take what ive learned this time around and completly change the setup next time and play with it again, changing things and observing.