DC motor/generator talk: the obvious gain.

[broli]

Now it's pretty late around here but I have been curious about something. I believe overunity is right in front of our eyes but we are unable to see it for some reason. Electrical and mechanical energy is far from the same and shouldn't be treated as the same.

I will keep it simple for now as I need to hit the bed. But the question is, what if we used very high currents for a motor which gives us a very high torque. BUT attach this high torque to a BIG load. So this will result in very slow but strong rotations. The reason why I do this is because this will result in very little back emf because the motor is rotating slowly.

Now lets use gears to transform this very high load and torque to a VERY fast spinning gear. Now we attach a generator to the shaft of this very fast spinning gear. Then we make sure the resistance of the generator is huge aka very small currents at very high voltages. If we do this the counter torque will again be very small. Now let's say you step this up "perfectly" and feed this power back to the motor. You can easily prove that it's way beyond overunity.

I will later be more specific with the formulas that are generally used for dc motors/generators.

[Joit]

I dont think it works.
I am your Naysayer Broli

I did see it at my Newman, there the Voltage goes slowly up and down at the Input.
For the Output at the Shaft, wich has a good Torque, i tried to put kind of Generator Coil on it.
The Motor did run some harder, and Voltage still goes up and down, no changes,
but the Output at the Shaft was still some to less, to get the same Energy back, what the Gencoil did make, when it gets inductive Resistance.

I think, the transver from the Power over a Shaft will be still the same, as it produce. and it does consume there, even when you use a Wheel, what seems spit more Rotation out.
What maybe would be interesting at the shaft would be a Flux Generator, what maybe dont take 1:1 Power for generating current.
But i didnt build one, and dont have a save Setup for one now.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi broli, what you say about running a motor very slowly with high current and high torque will have far less conter emf generated as proved in my pulse motor where i was able to use the fly back spikes to charge a 12V battery from a 36V source input which shows how low the counter emf was and the motor had lots more surplus torque it could have supplied. But as far as high ohm coils for generator aspect i used 30awg coils each was over 100 ohms and lentz was very similar to what lower ohm coils would be because the generated field although high voltage still created a high magnetic field from lentz unless im misunderstanding your idea there.

[broli]

First we must use a true DC motor/generator so NOT split rings for changing polarity. The irony of this is that it should prove over unity pretty much the moment you start it. I hope in the coming days I can post a video of this.

But the point of this thread is that even with known motors overunity is possible. In my calculations I just used a true dc motor not a switched polarity one like we all know. If you shake the formulas up a bit you can easily control any parameter and see what else needs to be changed to accommodate for it.

The main formula for the motor is F= B*I*l*n
F= force
B= magnetic field
I= current in windings of motor
l= length of wire in magnetic field
n= amount of windings in motor

and for the generator U = B*l*v*n
U= voltage
B= magnetic field strength
l= length of wire in magnetic field
v= linear speed of generator
n= amount of windings

With these formulas you can show how you can easily build an overunity system consisting of a motor which runs a generator which again partially feeds the motor and the other part can be freely used for whatever you desire. Again only use these formulas if you're dealing with a true dc motor not switch polarity motor. If you have been following my posts you'll know what a true dc motor is.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi broli, yes the pulse motor i used does not alternate the power pulse through coils, so i guess you would want as the ideal drive motor a unidirectional pulsed dc stepping motor to maintain higher efficiency at slow speed.

[broli]

SkyWatcher, I'm talking about true DC juice not pulsed. Pulsing DC can have other effects these formulas don't predict. I believe pulsing is indeed much more efficient in a mysterious way but I'm keeping it simple for now.

Also you are right. The voltage in the generator is extremely high as you can see by this formula: U= B*l*v*n. It's directly proportional to every aspect of the generator. But like I said. Measure the parameters of the generator and then you can see what speed and current you need to close the loop.

I promise that the formula's aren't that hard. Almost all variables are related. But you have to assume some to be constant. Like B, l and n. What I am going to say will totally not make sense as I have went through the formulas but you must not restrict the speed of the generator in the calculations.

The "step up" thing I mentioned would be the easiest solution. You would for instance have 1MV at 0.1A. If you step the current up with some DC to DC converter you can easily feed this back. You can power a motor with as little as 1V at 1A . The main thing that determines the motor's power is not P=U*I but F=B*I*l*n (which becomes P= B*I*l*n*r*d(angle)/dt ). As you can see I can make the motor arbitrary strong if I use enough windings and take l big enough or increase the radius r. Let's ignore B as that's hard to play around with. The only thing that will increase is mass but that's the beauty of it energy will be stored in the mass as kinetic energy. This shows that electric power is not equal to mechanical power.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi broli, hmm ive never built a motor like that so are you thinking of using a faraday type motor. By the way what other threads with your information that i can read.

[broli]

This one should explain things a bit

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...availbale.html

Here I used a permanent magnet so this is free energy out of the box. But if you want to use electromagnets would could then wind a toroidal shape coil around the space between the two set of magnets like this...

Toroidal Motor

This is a cutaway of the setup. The yellow hollow thing is a toroidal air core wound coil. Just apply the Lorentz force. And you get a force that always is at 90 degrees angle with the magnetic field.

I can go on and on. I have posted a lot in the past month on this subject but little of it has been acknowledged. I hoped that I would inspire many people to think along the same lines instead of do the experiments without thought. But neither happened .