Centrifugal engine

[Ted Ewert]

This concept is one I started working on about a year ago, and picked up again after getting inspired by Peter's mechanical engine. It involves a mechanism with two axis of rotation. The large lever (primary) rotates in one direction, and the smaller (planetary) wheels, on the perimeter, rotate in the opposite direction, at a higher rotational rate. The multiple I'm presently using is 3 to 1.



If you've ever been on a carnival ride called the Sizzler, you'll have a better idea of what this machine does. As the primary turns, the planetary wheels are connected to a stationary sprocket (mounted on the support structure) via a chain. Each planetary has its own drive sprocket which is rotated proportionally to the speed of the primary. I have a 14 tooth sprocket on each planetary, and a 42 tooth sprocket as the stationary, which equals a 3 to 1 ratio.



What this does is to vary the angular velocity of any given point on the circumference of a planetary, with respect to the axis of the primary. As this point on the planetary rotates, it travels in two directions in relation to the axis of the primary. If you were standing at the primary axis and looking out toward the planetary, you would see the point first go right to left and then back left to right.
This means that the point on the planetary circumference increases its velocity for 180 degrees of rotation and then decreases its velocity for 180 degrees, with respect to axis of the primary. This can be a useful thing.
What I'm trying to do is to generate centrifugal force from the planetary in the direction of primary rotation. To do this I'm using two pendulums per planetary. These presently consist of 8 oz lead weights connected to the axis of the planetary via a length of motorcycle chain. I also have two 5 inch diameter wooden discs that act as "guides" for the pendulums. These help to accelerate and decelerate the pendulums throughout their cycle.



The cycle of the pendulum is the key to this mechanism. What I want is for the pendulum to be fully extended (maximum radius) and swinging at maximum velocity in the direction of primary rotation. I also want the pendulum to be at minimum radius and traveling as slowly as possible in the opposite direction.
Lets go back to the arbitrary point on the circumference of the planetary (Remember, the planetary is rotating in an opposite direction to the primary). As this spot rotates through 360 degrees, it passes two significant points; one of maximum velocity and one of minimum velocity. The point of maximum velocity is when it passes closest to the axis of the primary. The point of minimum velocity is 180 degrees from here at the spot furthest away from the axis. If you drew a line from the primary axis through the planetary axis and beyond, both the maximum and minimum velocity points would be on this line.
At the point of maximum velocity, the speed vectors of the primary and the planetary both add together. As the spot moves beyond this point, it begins to slow down. If the weight of the pendulum happens to be on this spot, it keeps traveling forward. Now it has broken contact with the guide, and is expanding its radius. It's arc has started at the point of maximum speed and continues in the direction of primary rotation. The radius is ideally at maximum length before the pendulum is parallel with the direction of primary rotation. This will impart the most energy in the desired direction.
As the pendulum continues its arc, it imparts centrifugal force to the axis of the planetary. This force, while the pendulum is swinging between the maximum and minimum velocity points, will add to the velocity of the primary rotation.
As the pendulum approaches the minimum velocity point, a combination of centrifugal force generated by the primary, and spent energy will tend to slow the pendulum with respect to the primary velocity. The pendulum will sort of hang straight out and away from the primary axis while the planetary rotation catches up. Once the planetary guide comes around and hits the pendulum chain, it starts to pull the weight back in towards the primary axis again. This decreases the pendulum's radius as the chain wraps around the guide. Velocity is again increased as the weight rotates towards the maximum point where the cycle repeats itself.
I realize this description is fairly mind numbing and I salute you if you made it this far. I like to write these things out because it forces me to iterate all the minutia involved with operation. I often get new ideas, and more important, spot flaws. I see a flaw in my present design that would preclude any significant energy developed in the centrifugal phase of the planetary rotation. The problem is that the pendulum isn't fully extended at the point of maximum velocity. If the pendulum increases its radius after that point, it will slow down while doing so. As power is developed as the square of the velocity, slowing down is not a good thing.
So I’ll come up with a new design for the planetary. I’ve also bolted the whole thing to the concrete floor since taking these pictures ,and reinforced the jeebers out of the upright posts. The whole thing shakes pretty good when it gets going which zaps all sorts of power. I’ll try and update this thread with a little less convoluted information from now on.

Cheers,

Ted

[wpage]

Big

That is a elaborate labor of love...

Thanks for sharing your machine. On your next modification. Were you planning on staying with chain drive? Belts have certain advantages but can slip.

Good luck with it. Looks promising

[Ted Ewert]

That is a elaborate labor of love...

Thanks for sharing your machine. On your next modification. Were you planning on staying with chain drive? Belts have certain advantages but can slip.

Good luck with it. Looks promising

Thanks. I'm going to stay with the chains. They have a lot less mechanical loss than belts and are easier to adjust. I also want to try reversing the planetary orbit so they're rotating in the same direction as the primary, which is easy with the chains.

Ted

[Electrotek]

Ted: I'm really impressed with your engineering example. I'm sure you'll get this to do what you want it to. I might point out though that true quadrature requires that the two axes of rotation lie at 90 degrees to each other, rather than in the same plane. I've got several machines like that.

Also, here's a picture of a sprocket mechanism I built. If it comes to the point that you need to have someone replicate your system, I can do it.

Good luck, and I'm sure you're having fun!

[Ted Ewert]

Ted: I'm really impressed with your engineering example. I'm sure you'll get this to do what you want it to. I might point out though that true quadrature requires that the two axes of rotation lie at 90 degrees to each other, rather than in the same plane. I've got several machines like that.

Also, here's a picture of a sprocket mechanism I built. If it comes to the point that you need to have someone replicate your system, I can do it.

Good luck, and I'm sure you're having fun!

Thanks for the encouragement. You're right, projects like this are a lot of fun. Thanks for the offer to replicate, which you're more than welcome to do, but I really should get it working first. Nevertheless, all ideas and comments are welcome.
I've been thinking of different ways to shorten and lengthen the radius of the pendulums as they traverse through the phases of rotation. I'm leaning towards having them both on the same arm, so that when one radius is shortened, the other is lengthened. To do this I'd make the weights into wheels that could ride along a guide which would push the weight back in towards the axis, while at the same time lengthening the other pendulum's radius. Otherwise I could do the same thing to each pendulum separately, but the mechanism would be a little more complicated. I think the timing will work out fine with one arm for both, but I'll have to try it and see.
I'm not familiar with a quadrature mechanism, is that what your picture is of? That's a very interesting mechanism you built, I like it. Are the pendulums on a fixed radius? How does it work?

Cheers,

Ted

[Electrotek]

Your new radius changing system sounds promissing. Also, some kind of cam arm might work. My ceiling fan motor picture was supposed to be a slack pendulum. Swinging one way, the suspenssion rope could have become slack, as the swing velocity adds to the rotation speed on top. Except using the chain makes the outer sprockets turn twice for each rotation, as the chain itself crawls around. Here's a picture of a quadrature machine. There's a pivot at the bottom of the square parts of the frame. The plane of the weight's rotation rotates around this pivot.

[Ted Ewert]

Your new radius changing system sounds promissing. Also, some kind of cam arm might work. My ceiling fan motor picture was supposed to be a slack pendulum. Swinging one way, the suspenssion rope could have become slack, as the swing velocity adds to the rotation speed on top. Except using the chain makes the outer sprockets turn twice for each rotation, as the chain itself crawls around. Here's a picture of a quadrature machine. There's a pivot at the bottom of the square parts of the frame. The plane of the weight's rotation rotates around this pivot.

That quadrature machine looks interesting. Is there any more information available on it's operation? It's hard to tell how it works from such a small picture.
I'll be using some type of a cam for the arm, I'm just not sure what type yet.
OK, In place of actual progress, we'll fill with more theory...
By studying the orbits of the planets in our solar system, I've found that a few things need to happen before any extra energy is infused into an angular system.
The orbits of the planets have different speeds, periods, radii, etc, but the one thing they all have in common is that they have elliptical orbits. Elliptical orbits have two foci (axis of rotation), as opposed to one focus, as in a circular orbit.
Each of these foci represents two distinct phases of the orbit. One is the centripetal phase, and the other is the centrifugal phase. The centripetal phase is recognizable by it's shorter radius, and the centrifugal phase by its longer radius.
These phases alternate in both time and distance from one another. The angular velocity of the planet also varies with the phase of the orbit.
It is these conditions that differentiate the perpetual motion of the planets from a mass in a normal, circular orbit. None of the planets in our solar system have circular orbits, for good reason.
In a circular orbit, both centripetal and centrifugal aspects are "in phase". Without a differentiation between the two phases, Nature will add no additional energy to the system. Nature sees a circular orbit as being balanced. This is why unbalanced "gravity" wheels don't work. It doesn't matter how "unbalanced" they seem to be, nature sees balance in the phases and that's all there is to it.
Therefore, to take advantage of Natures abundance, one needs to copy Nature.
The first requirement is an "elliptical" orbit. As a big fan of Victor Schauberger, I prefer the egg shaped orbit for my "ellipse". This has a very definite differentiation between the phases, and accentuates this difference.
With a relatively constant rotational rate, the weights will go through velocity changes throughout the orbit as a function of their change in radius. They will slow down in the centripetal phase and speed up in the centrifugal phase, just as the planets do.
The centrifugal portion of the orbit imparts more energy than the centripetal portion. This force is directional and occurs unevenly within 180 degrees of rotation. This directional force should be used to perform work, or to perpetuate movement or rotation.
The centripetal portion of the cycle should be used to reset the weight so that it can be efficiently reemployed in the centrifugal portion.
A pendulum swinging on a stationary axis is a phase balanced system and will do no additional work. As soon as the axis moves during the swing, as in Milkovic's oscillator, the system becomes phase unbalanced and can do work. If that axis is connected to a lever, chain, rope or other force conveyance, real work can be performed with energy developed above and beyond the initial energy it took to swing the pendulum.
Obviously there are limits to the amount of power that can be extracted per swing, but it's more than you would think.
Anyway, these are some of the guidelines I'm attempting to follow in my machine. I'm trying to build a perpetually resetting pendulum that imparts centrifugal force in one direction at the end of a rotating lever. If it imparts enough force without shaking itself to death, I may be able to get some useful work out of it.

Cheers,

Ted

[Electrotek]

The centripetal portion of the cycle should be used to reset the weight so that it can be efficiently reemployed in the centrifugal portion.
A pendulum swinging on a stationary axis is a phase balanced system and will do no additional work. As soon as the axis moves during the swing, as in Milkovic's oscillator, the system becomes phase unbalanced and can do work. If that axis is connected to a lever, chain, rope or other force conveyance, real work can be performed with energy developed above and beyond the initial energy it took to swing the pendulum.

I think you're onto something with your moving axis and phase unbalanced system. My quadrature machine uses a similar approach and proves this is workable. Here's a basic diagram which illustrates the operation and how the axis is pulled back:



Fig. 1 shows the basic device, with 3 being the motors and 2 the hinge. The other figures show side perspectives. When the weights are lined up straight in, the top of the vertical shafts 7 tip backwards against the spring 81 as the weights move 30 degrees. This is a balanced movement, with the weights moving forwards and up and the rest of the mass moving backwards and down. This phase shifting is a torque and does not produce centrifugal force. After the 30 degree point the torque stops and centrifugal force starts up. The mass of the machine is pulled around the hinge pivot and the plane of the weights' rotation is tipped downwards. Pulling the weights downwards produces a reaction force which appears as lift.

I don't have any idea how something like this could be used to extract energy from an acceleration field. But this same type of phase shifting can be done with V shaped swing arms if a frame stop clutch is used momentarily before the arms are allowed to swing back in.

[Ted Ewert]

I think you're onto something with your moving axis and phase unbalanced system. My quadrature machine uses a similar approach and proves this is workable. Here's a basic diagram which illustrates the operation and how the axis is pulled back:



Fig. 1 shows the basic device, with 3 being the motors and 2 the hinge. The other figures show side perspectives. When the weights are lined up straight in, the top of the vertical shafts 7 tip backwards against the spring 81 as the weights move 30 degrees. This is a balanced movement, with the weights moving forwards and up and the rest of the mass moving backwards and down. This phase shifting is a torque and does not produce centrifugal force. After the 30 degree point the torque stops and centrifugal force starts up. The mass of the machine is pulled around the hinge pivot and the plane of the weights' rotation is tipped downwards. Pulling the weights downwards produces a reaction force which appears as lift.

I don't have any idea how something like this could be used to extract energy from an acceleration field. But this same type of phase shifting can be done with V shaped swing arms if a frame stop clutch is used momentarily before the arms are allowed to swing back in.

Thanks for the diagrams, I see how it works now. It uses two smaller rotating pendulums to turn the whole thing into one big pendulum. If you stuck this thing on the end of a rotating lever, I'll bet it would induce rotation. It could also induce forward movement if installed on a cart of some sort.
Milkovic built a little cart with two pendulums that he swung by hand out in front of him. The cart was propelled simply by the movement of the pendulums. This is very significant because it shows that centrifugal force can impart excess energy along an axis. Academic physicists would argue that the vectors all cancel in a pendulum and no excess energy is generated in any direction. They are absolutely correct when, in their laboratory, the axis of rotation is fixed.
I'm no expert on the theory of relativity, but I think I'm starting to see some cracks in it. IMHO, the aether has everything to do with motion and inertia. As such, all motion is relative to the aether.
If one looks at Milkovic's pendulum cart, or your quadrature machine, in terms of relativity, the movement of the axis of rotation looses all relevance. Yet movement through time and space defines the expression of energy. All movement is relative to the aether, so all movement has to be measured according to this relationship.
Shinning a flashlight ahead of a theoretical spaceship traveling close to the speed of light is a good example. Will the light beam travel at a speed that is a product of both the velocity of the spaceship and the beam from the flashlight? Or is light inherently restricted to a certain velocity regardless of the speed of it's origin? Without an aether, and according to academic physics, there should be no such limit. What mechanism could prevent an increase in velocity? Yet light will only travel so fast, no matter how fast the flashlight is going. This tells me that the speed of light is relative to the aether, and not to it's point of origin.
If we put a quadrature machine in a spaceship, and powered it up, would the spaceship move in the direction of centrifugal force? My answer would be yes.
Interesting stuff to think about anyway.

Cheers,

Ted

[aljhoa]

Tesla's Flying Stove

Thanks for the diagrams, I see how it works now. It uses two smaller rotating pendulums to turn the whole thing into one big pendulum. If you stuck this thing on the end of a rotating lever, I'll bet it would induce rotation. It could also induce forward movement if installed on a cart of some sort.
Milkovic built a little cart with two pendulums that he swung by hand out in front of him. The cart was propelled simply by the movement of the pendulums. This is very significant because it shows that centrifugal force can impart excess energy along an axis. Academic physicists would argue that the vectors all cancel in a pendulum and no excess energy is generated in any direction. They are absolutely correct when, in their laboratory, the axis of rotation is fixed.
I'm no expert on the theory of relativity, but I think I'm starting to see some cracks in it. IMHO, the aether has everything to do with motion and inertia. As such, all motion is relative to the aether.
If one looks at Milkovic's pendulum cart, or your quadrature machine, in terms of relativity, the movement of the axis of rotation looses all relevance. Yet movement through time and space defines the expression of energy. All movement is relative to the aether, so all movement has to be measured according to this relationship.
Shinning a flashlight ahead of a theoretical spaceship traveling close to the speed of light is a good example. Will the light beam travel at a speed that is a product of both the velocity of the spaceship and the beam from the flashlight? Or is light inherently restricted to a certain velocity regardless of the speed of it's origin? Without an aether, and according to academic physics, there should be no such limit. What mechanism could prevent an increase in velocity? Yet light will only travel so fast, no matter how fast the flashlight is going. This tells me that the speed of light is relative to the aether, and not to it's point of origin.
If we put a quadrature machine in a spaceship, and powered it up, would the spaceship move in the direction of centrifugal force? My answer would be yes.
Interesting stuff to think about anyway.

Cheers,

Ted

Ted,
have you seen Tesla's machine:
Nikola Tesla's Flying Machine - his Flying Stove
Al

[Ted Ewert]

Ted,
have you seen Tesla's machine:
Nikola Tesla's Flying Machine - his Flying Stove
Al

I hadn't seen this before, thanks for the link. Nevertheless, I don't see how this device could do anything but shake itself to death. I'm sure if Tesla designed this he had good reason to make this portion the way he did, but I strongly suspect there is more to this device than what is shown.

Cheers,

Ted

[Ted Ewert]

This is a variation on the same theme, only using a single pendulum.



The cams which drive the pendulum would be driven from a chain similar to what I already have. This would swing the pendulums back and forth and create centrifugal force in the direction of rotation.
Things like spring bumpers could also be added to help with the transition when the mass changes direction. Lots of different ways to skin this cat.

Cheers,

Ted

[Ted Ewert]

Here is the latest modification to my machine. I have replaced the flailing ball and chain with two weights on a slider. The two weights are attached to each other, so they move together. I did this so I only had to construct an interior cam.



The weights trace an eccentric course with respect to their axis. This is to try and take advantage of the two directions of centrifugal force involved here.
The constant source of centrifugal force is at 90 degrees to the main axis of rotation. As seen in the picture, this force emanates away from the axis, and it’s strength is proportional to the angular velocity at the end of the main arm. When the planetary weight is extended out around 3 o’clock, this force pushes the weight away from the center axis. As the weight is connected via chain to the non moving chassis, this movement, via leverage, propels the main arm in the direction of rotation. The faster the main arm rotates, the more force is exerted on the extended weight, which applies more torque to the main arm. This becomes the main source of force at higher rotational speeds.
The intermittent source of centrifugal force is between 2 and 6 o’clock in the planetary rotation. This force is towards the direction of travel and will add to rotational energy. Maximum velocity for the planetary arm is at 6 o’clock, at which point the arm starts slowing down again with respect to the velocity of its axis. It is still traveling fast enough up through the 2 o’clock position to impart an appreciable dose of centrifugal force to the arm.
I installed a round cam today to see how the weights ran along the perimeter. What I found out is that I still have a ways to go in cam design. Due to a hasty design, the weights we not in contact with the cam throughout the entire cycle. This small amount of disconnection was all it took for them to beat themselves half to death within just a few short revolutions. The whole frame was shaking and jumping around, making all kinds of noise and without the slightest hint of self motivation.
I wound up bending the shafts on my weights, which you can see here.



I may wind up separating the weights since designing a proper cam for this type of arrangement could be problematic. I’ll work on it a little first in AutoCad to see what I can do.
The cam I want to use is sort of squished egg shape. The problem is efficiently moving the weights around this type of cam. The slope of the sides sometimes presents a difficult angle for the arms to push the weights around. The leverage gets iffy as the weights extend from their axis.
Anyway, I just thought I would pass along an update since there was some current interested in this type of mechanism.
Cheers,

Ted

Another view,