Sun Earth Moon Engine

[cody]

I put together a little model of my theory of how the planets interact with eachother in thier state of motion. We know they are in some sort of perpetual state (until the sun dies) so i thought maybe thier motion could be taken advantage of in an engine. Like studying birds to make airplanes. Here it is, what do you think about it?
YouTube - Sun Earth Moon Engine

[Ted Ewert]

I put together a little model of my theory of how the planets interact with eachother in thier state of motion. We know they are in some sort of perpetual state (until the sun dies) so i thought maybe thier motion could be taken advantage of in an engine. Like studying birds to make airplanes. Here it is, what do you think about it?
YouTube - Sun Earth Moon Engine

I've studied the planetary orbits with the same interest you have. I think the elliptical orbit is the key to their perpetual motion. I'm in the process of redesigning and rebuilding a machine I have to take advantage of this principal.
It really boils down to how centrifugal force is used to extract energy from an orbit. Centrifugal force has to be separated from centripetal force in order to be utilized. Planets do this through the shape of their orbits. I'm doing this in my machine through the use of cams.
Circular orbits are useless since there is no separation of the two forces. Nature only adds energy into a system that is imbalanced. Nature adds energy in to the planet's orbit, so there must be an imbalance there.
Anyway, you made an interesting machine. However, you'll be hard pressed to get a compound pendulum into any state of cohesive resonance. A freewheeling compound pendulum is about as chaotic as it gets. Unless you control it's orbit, then you have something.

Ted

[cody]

Thanks Ted,
You are correct, there are many other variables that i didnt take into account in this simple model. There are also many things which i dont have a good knowledge of, it sounds like you have been doing your homework I think your on to something with the centrifugal force idea. I have not considered putting an ellipse into the equation yet, but i bet your right about it. One of the things i based this on is the winter and summer solstice. The hours of light to dark in a day are not constant, they change through out the year. This suggests to me that the earth rotates faster during some hours of the day than during others. My model captures this effect, though i admit it does a poor job, but still shows the basics of how the earth could behave as it does. Thanks for your interests and information.

[Ted Ewert]

Thanks Ted,
You are correct, there are many other variables that i didnt take into account in this simple model. There are also many things which i dont have a good knowledge of, it sounds like you have been doing your homework I think your on to something with the centrifugal force idea. I have not considered putting an ellipse into the equation yet, but i bet your right about it. One of the things i based this on is the winter and summer solstice. The hours of light to dark in a day are not constant, they change through out the year. This suggests to me that the earth rotates faster during some hours of the day than during others. My model captures this effect, though i admit it does a poor job, but still shows the basics of how the earth could behave as it does. Thanks for your interests and information.

Building models like you did will teach you things theorists never figure out. I've never built something I didn't learn from.
Part of an elliptical orbit involves a change in velocity. The Earth speeds up and slows down in its orbit around the sun. This corresponds to the lengthening and shortening of the radius around its two foci.
Victor Schauberger was a big fan of egg shaped orbits, and I'm firmly in that camp too. Egg shaped orbits are full of surplus energy. I think they are the key to mechanical energy machines.

Ted

[cody]

Hey Ted,
Do you have any good ideas on how to create an ellipitical path in a device like mine? i was thinking maybe someting like rubber bands that would allow the weight to stretch out farther as it accelerates, but that sound like a bad idea and im betting there is a better way. Any thoughts?

[Ted Ewert]

Hey Ted,
Do you have any good ideas on how to create an ellipitical path in a device like mine? i was thinking maybe someting like rubber bands that would allow the weight to stretch out farther as it accelerates, but that sound like a bad idea and im betting there is a better way. Any thoughts?

Sure. You can have a sliding weight on an arm that follows a cam for all or part of it's orbit. You can put a stop on your compound pendulum so it only breaks in one direction. There are a number of ways to accomplish this type of thing.
The question is: How are you going to use your orbit? The orbit has to work in conjunction with a force such as gravity or centrifugal force.
Peter's mechanical engine uses gravity and a number of pendulums to separate the two phases of rotation. The weights are tucked in during the centripetal phase, and let loose to swing out on the centrifugal phase. You could do the same thing with weights riding on an arm that slid out and back in at the appropriate time.
The key is to be able to slide your weights with less work that what you gain from the imbalance. This is why a pendulum is so efficient: negligible friction.
The definition of torque is the foot pound. This is the rotational force a pound of matter exerts on a lever when it is place a foot from the axis of rotation, and the lever is at 90 degrees to the force of gravity. This is the same situation we want to create with our orbit. We want our mass to be in an unbalanced position with respect to it's axis of rotation and the force of gravity. This creates the leverage we need to produce usable torque. The orbit efficiently cycles the weight in to, and away from, the main axis. The rest is mechanics.
I'll try and draw up a diagram of the machine I'm building right now. It will better illustrate what I'm trying to convey in words.

Ted

[cody]

Thanks, i would understand better if i saw it. I didnt realize what i was getting myself into here, but i knew there would be more to it than i had. Im wondering what naturally causes the eliptical orbit. I mean, it seems like we are going to a lot of trouble to reproduce an effect that happens naturally, but maybe thats just my ignorance on the subject.

[CloudSeeder]

@All:

I'm no expert on Nikolai Tesla but I saw a picture online once of one of his machines. I think it was a model of an engine that was supposed to do flight without fuel. It's been a long time since I looked at it so maybe my memory is screwed. Thing is when I looked at it -whatever it's purpose- it seemed he had deliberately made an out-of-balance machine.

It seemed to have an outer encasement that soaked up all the out of balance energy it produced. So Cody and Ted and Everybody/Me, whereas you might be thinking yer a FAILURE don't be so quick to pass judgement. It could be we could make an out of balance SYNCHRONOUS MACHINE that would have great value.

[cody]

Cloudseeder,
I think i remember coming across that to somewhere, but i cant remember either. But you bring up a good point. I will have to try and find it because i have no idea how to do what you are suggesting, hopefully there is some info on the web.

Some other things i have been thinking about:
Like i mentioned earlier, the summer and winter solstice give us a better understanding of how the earth rotates. Furthermore the cycles of the moon give us a blueprint of how the moon rotates. So the moon goes around once for every ~29 revolutions of the earth. There is good old mother nature right in front of my face and i still cant make sense of it.

[cody]

If the earth did rotate at different speeds during a revolution, would we be able to even notice it? Time on earth would stay constant relative to our velocity (everyone on the planet). Like how time seems the same on an airplane(but your velocity increased), but when you get back on the ground you realize your watch had been going faster. This is getting mind bogeling

[Ted Ewert]

If the earth did rotate at different speeds during a revolution, would we be able to even notice it? Time on earth would stay constant relative to our velocity (everyone on the planet). Like how time seems the same on an airplane(but your velocity increased), but when you get back on the ground you realize your watch had been going faster. This is getting mind bogeling

Any change in velocity would be so minor you would never notice it.

[CloudSeeder]

Unified Chaos?

The oceans and Tesla's weird engine could both be examples of Unified Chaos. It really doesn't matter does it? If Motion is happening at a regular crazy it can still do Work if the right engine is slapped around it to take full advantage of dependable chaos. Sometimes I think we shouldn't try to "see into the mind of Tesla" too far.

Sort of like Out-of-Harmonics Harmonics?

[CloudSeeder]

For example! When the washing machine clothes are out of balance doesn't that slam the tub around REALLY HARD? So if you purposely design a machine to slam the tub around really hard... maybe that's a way to make a really powerful engine system!