Most efficient free energy

[Stealth]

I have been studying free energy systems for 10 years. Up until now I had decided solar and wind were top candidates. But as I talked to a friend, he told me a story of a town in WV, so remote they had no power or water. He said the townspeople contracted a company to build a syatem to furnish them with both. After surveying, they found a small lake on the other side of the mountain. After obtaining rights to use the lake, they installed pumps to pump water upon the mountain, and water turbines to hydroelectric the power running back into the lake. I did the math and discovered a Turgo water turbine can produce 1000 watts of power@ 2400GPH@ 5' head $1700.
Magdrive waterfall pump @3000 GPH uses only 235watts, adifference of 765 watts @ 15' head. This system could be made into a closed system in your garage or basement to run 24/7. Correct me if I'm wrong. Or you could set up a water wheel outside cheaper, but with less efficiency. I am thinking Faraday type generator.

[elias]

Thanks for the idea

Well, conventional physics says it is impossible to get more energy here because you store potential energy in water by using the pump cantget at most all of it back if you use the elevated water to drive a turbine.

But, if we want to look at this differently, the spiral energies of the water vortex may be in play, either in pumping, or in the turbine, which means that these "conventional devices" are operating unconventionally by accident.

Elias

[Peter Lindemann]

Check your turbine stats...

I have been studying free energy systems for 10 years. Up until now I had decided solar and wind were top candidates. But as I talked to a friend, he told me a story of a town in WV, so remote they had no power or water. He said the townspeople contracted a company to build a syatem to furnish them with both. After surveying, they found a small lake on the other side of the mountain. After obtaining rights to use the lake, they installed pumps to pump water upon the mountain, and water turbines to hydroelectric the power running back into the lake. I did the math and discovered a Turgo water turbine can produce 1000 watts of power@ 2400GPH@ 5' head $1700.
Magdrive waterfall pump @3000 GPH uses only 235watts, adifference of 765 watts @ 15' head. This system could be made into a closed system in your garage or basement to run 24/7. Correct me if I'm wrong. Or you could set up a water wheel outside cheaper, but with less efficiency. I am thinking Faraday type generator.

Stealth,

I am quite sure that self running combinations of water pumps and turbines can be made, but I have my doubts about a system based on the components you have cited here. Primarily, I am suspicious of the Turgo Turbine operating on 5' of head. Turgo Turbines are medium pressure devices, typically operating on between 70 and 200 feet of head. I would believe your stats for the turbine if it was 50 feet of head, but 5' of head is unlikely. 5' of head just can't produce enough water pressure to run the nozzles of the turbine. You may want to recheck the stats for the model of turbine you are thinking about here.

Peter

[jibbguy]

I had Customers doing such a project years ago.. Pump the water back up to the reservoir lake during the night when rates are low, then run a turbine during the day. In this respect it can be nominally cost-efficient (but not especially energy efficient).

[Matthew Jones]

The Turbine..

Performance spread sheet

Turgo Article

At 5' you would need 2000 gallons per minute, which is 12k gallons per hour. But the chart says 350kw if I am reading it right.

The Pump

Magnatex Pump

At 200hp you get 2000 gallons per minute at 470 ft. 200hp is roughly 150kw of power.

And thats just reading the brochures I found. Maybe somtthing I am missing but it look feasable, If you have the water.

And technically you need only have 2 tanks of water with more than 5000 gallons or so to make it work.

Matt

[Matthew Jones]

Looking at the chart some more a 5' head is not feasible, but you can still get it with 100' head at 2000 gpm.

I think this fellows on to somthing.

Matt

[DavidE]

Consumers Energy Web Site

http://www.consumersenergy.com/apps/...pedStorage.pdf

[Peter Lindemann]

More Bad math

Looking at the chart some more a 5' head is not feasible, but you can still get it with 100' head at 2000 gpm.

I think this fellows on to somthing.

Matt

Matt,

2000 GPM is not 12K GPH, its 120K GPH. There IS something here, but not necessarily with these components. Just remember, bad math and enthusiasm may light up your mind, but they will not provide very much energy for lighting light bulbs.

Peter

[Matthew Jones]

OK I made a math mistake in the TOTAL water flow. You are making 350kw at 2000 gallons per minute with 100' head. And it is costing you 150kw to pump 2000 gallons to elevations of 470' per minute.

Thats still sounds like it turns on the lights.

Maybe we should avoid the humor and take a look at smaller components that could make this feasible. Maybe Peter, you could take second look at the charts and see if I'm reading it right.

That is if you actually want to add to this topic....

Matt

[Peter Lindemann]

Don't make it Personal, Matt

OK I made a math mistake in the TOTAL water flow. You are making 350kw at 2000 gallons per minute with 100' head. And it is costing you 150kw to pump 2000 gallons to elevations of 470' per minute.

Thats still sounds like it turns on the lights.

Maybe we should avoid the humor and take a look at smaller components that could make this feasible. Maybe Peter, you could take second look at the charts and see if I'm reading it right.

That is if you actually want to add to this topic....

Matt

Matt,

You are still not reading the charts right. The link you show to the Magnatex page shows two charts. These charts are for two speed ranges of 1800rpm and 3600rpm. In the first chart, the model A85 can produce 2000 GPM, but can only lift that volume between 50 and 85 feet. It looks like it can lift 1000 GPM about 100 feet. The high speed chart shows a number of models that can lift water above 400 feet, but none of them with volumes above 500 GPM.

Good luck with your project.

Peter

[Matthew Jones]

I'm not building it I just was'nt sure if I was reading it right or not.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Matt

[Stealth]

I checked out the Pondmaster HyDrive #28220@22' head with 1-1/2" inlet & outlet @4850GPH @328 watts
Also I checked out another turbine, Harris Pelton with 1" nozzle and a Ford 80 amp alternator @20' head producing 960 watts. Thats 632 watts difference.
Anytime you can produce more than you use, it's free energy.

[Matthew Jones]

I agree. Do you have some links..?

Matt

[Stealth]

Yes, the pumps are at Pond Supplies for garden ponds, water gardens, pond pumps, pond filters and uv lights.. and the turbines are at Alternative home energy-Discover alternative power sources for home electricity.. I am trying to determine if I can use my swimming pool pump and my pool as a reservoir,since it is used for that purpose anyway. All I need to do is hook up a piping system running 20-30 feet high and insert a turbine between filter and pool.

[Stealth]

I don't claim to have all the answers, but I have identified three forces that I think would help contribute to OU on this system.
1) adding a large flywheel to pump and turbine shaft would create a large amount of torque
2)spinning blades at high RPM of pump and turbine would create a huge centrifual force
3) the spinning of the blades on pump and turbine would create cavatation or drag, adding to pressure to the system
At some point you should be able to remove the pump motor and the system could power itself. Look at the clem motor, he used cooking oil instead of water. In a closed system, these things are possible. Richard Clem Engine In this type of system a large head or lift may not be necessary. Stealth