Worldīs most efficient water heater and No 1 group of free energy research etc...

[esaruoho]

well, no email yet. i did check the site and they've embedded some theme songs and stuff onto a "theme song" page. which is probably not going to interest anyone, really.

i hope they mail me the data and i get to do the gifts-page. it'd be nice.

[Peter Lindemann]

Don't Have to Answer to You

Well, I believe Peter should stand up for himself Aaron, no need for you to defend him, he is a grown up and he should behave like one. Does he want to go and visit Witts and find out the truth or not and tell the rest of us? Or is he scared of finding out the truth? And bring Sterling Allan with him to tell us all the truth.

It is ridiculous criticizing their claims if you donīt want to go and check it out for yourself. If they are as good as they claim to be and at the same time Amish they have a different view of life, economics and business than the rest of us. That we must respect. So please go there and have a look and then tell us the truth.

Gauss,

The fact is, I have been out of town, visiting a dying Uncle. Aaron knew I was out of town, and I appreciate his comments in my absence. But the bottom line is, I don't have to answer to you. You do not represent WITTS and you can't "invite me" to come and see their technology.

If Tim Thrapp wants me to see his technology, he can invite me to come to see it himself. Like Aaron, I know the same person who says that he saw all the demonstrations, years ago, but he wasn't shown how any of them work, and nothing ever came of any of it. Back then, Tim wanted $10,000 to give a demonstration. I'd be glad to go see all of his demonstrations and come back to this forum and say they all work. But I work for a living, so he can pay me my standard consulting fee to come and evaluate the demonstrations.

And since you brought it up again, let's look at this "Amish" claim. I am a close, personal friend of a prominent leader in the Mennonite Community named Glenn Bender. Glenn has been involved in try to develop FE technologies for the Mennonites and he personally knows the leaders of all of the Mennonite and Amish communities in North America. Tim Thrapp is not a member of these groups.

These people purposefully wear "plain clothes" because they are humble, and never want to be considered "special". They believe pride is a SIN, and they are serious about that belief. None of them would put up with a member of the community being "knighted" and taking on the Title of SIR. That person would be SHUNNED, immediately. Any attempt to raise one's own importance above one's fellows is completely against their religious beliefs. The idea that "Sir Tim" is a member in good standing of any Amish group is a complete farce.

I could go on and on, but there is no point to it.

If Tim wants to sell information about his technologies, I have no problem with that. If Tim wants to keep all of the information about his technologies secret and confidential, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is Tim sending surrogate representatives into this forum to solicit "mandatory donations" to his religious organization in exchange for a peek at some technical information that still reveals nothing. No one should have to pay to know nothing!

As far as keeping this thread "on topic", why don't you just tell us how the heater works, so we can all focus on replicating it!

Peter

[esaruoho]

peter, its quite possible that gauss wasnt "sent" here by anyone other than himself.

[Guest]

Tim invites you for FREE...

Peter:

Did I ever blame you for not replying? I am sorry about your uncle.

Indirectly you say his stuff could be working since your friend could not find any fake with it. And still you donīt want to go have a look to check it out??!!

Do you know ANYONE ELSE having this kind of stuff to show - well you donīt... And you are attacking Tim for being this and that and you donīt need to answer to anyone etc, etc, completely irrelevant if you ask me. If Tim comes from Mars or is a true Memmonite or not, it is besides the point - we need no personal drama thanks. Since you dismissed him and his group why donīt you go there to prove they are wrong? Whether you understand their tech or not is besides the point, I just want to hear from you, Sterling and Aaron whether it is FOR REAL or not. THEN we can discuss how it works.

In fact I talked to Tim yesterday and he told me you and also Sterling and Aaron are welcome to see a demo FOR FREE - NOW YOU GOT TO SHOW IF YOU ARE INTO FE FOR GOOD REASONS OR NOT! A water heater of COP 6000 or a quantum device at 40 kw - your choice..

What we(the hard workers of FE technology) care about is making the best FE technology well known to increase the quantity of developers. Do you want to tell the world about good functioning FE tech or do you prefer continuing dismissing component 42 in Grayīs engine that nobody still has up and running?

Time is kind of an issue and you started in this business 30 years ago and climate and environment havenīt really improved have they? So do this now please.

This is a pretty nice gesture that they now want to receive you with open arms after what you said about Tim being greedy, stealing ideas etc, etc.. Do you accept his gesture or not?

I urge all of the other members to have a say about this subject! If you run a big forum on FE, should you not keep updated with the outside world? I believe many members want to see you looking at the tech and stop making dramas about anything outside the tech...

So Peter show us your good side and say a simple sorry for the hard words and go there and have a look!

About the water heater, after all you are the "FE specialist"...? Have you heard about Keely, transducers and ultrasonic technology as we discussed earlier? Study and conclude for yourself - but first go and have a look.....

If you donīt want t ogo I am sure many other knowledgeable people can replace you. Realize your forum will win many new supporters if this is for real and gets out to the masses. And isnīt that what we all want?

[sigzidfit]

With all due respect:

Oc*cult" (?), a. [L. occultus, p.p. of occulere to cover up, hide; ob (see Ob-) + a root prob.akin to E. hell: cf. F. occulte.] Hidden from the eye or the understanding; inviable; secret; concealed; unknown.

It is of an occult kind, and is so insensible in its advances as to escape observation. I. Taylor.

Occult line (Geom.), a line drawn as a part of the construction of a figure or problem, but not to appear in the finished plan. -- Occult qualities, those qualities whose effects only were observed, but the nature and relations of whose productive agencies were undetermined; -- so called by the schoolmen. -- Occult sciences, those sciences of the Middle Ages which related to the supposed action or influence of occult qualities, or supernatural powers, as alchemy, magic, necromancy, and astrology.

ARTFL Project: Webster Dictionary, 1913

Peace
PJ

[anut]

Well, I might not be a so-called knowledgeable person, but I am interested in having a look at your technology. I am not living in the US. Would you mind PM me (or email me) with some more details? You don't have to disclose everything to me if you don't want to.

.....
..... If you donīt want t ogo I am sure many other knowledgeable people can replace you. Realize your forum will win many new supporters if this is for real and gets out to the masses. And isnīt that what we all want?

[Peter Lindemann]

Not the Point

Peter:

Did I ever blame you for not replying? I am sorry about your uncle.

Indirectly you say his stuff could be working since your friend could not find any fake with it. And still you donīt want to go have a look to check it out??!!

Do you know ANYONE ELSE having this kind of stuff to show - well you donīt... And you are attacking Tim for being this and that and you donīt need to answer to anyone etc, etc, completely irrelevant if you ask me. If Tim comes from Mars or is a true Memmonite or not, it is besides the point - we need no personal drama thanks. Since you dismissed him and his group why donīt you go there to prove they are wrong? Whether you understand their tech or not is besides the point, I just want to hear from you, Sterling and Aaron whether it is FOR REAL or not. THEN we can discuss how it works.

In fact I talked to Tim yesterday and he told me you and also Sterling and Aaron are welcome to see a demo FOR FREE - NOW YOU GOT TO SHOW IF YOU ARE INTO FE FOR GOOD REASONS OR NOT! A water heater of COP 6000 or a quantum device at 40 kw - your choice..

What we(the hard workers of FE technology) care about is making the best FE technology well known to increase the quantity of developers. Do you want to tell the world about good functioning FE tech or do you prefer continuing dismissing component 42 in Grayīs engine that nobody still has up and running?

Time is kind of an issue and you started in this business 30 years ago and climate and environment havenīt really improved have they? So do this now please.

This is a pretty nice gesture that they now want to receive you with open arms after what you said about Tim being greedy, stealing ideas etc, etc.. Do you accept his gesture or not?

I urge all of the other members to have a say about this subject! If you run a big forum on FE, should you not keep updated with the outside world? I believe many members want to see you looking at the tech and stop making dramas about anything outside the tech...

So Peter show us your good side and say a simple sorry for the hard words and go there and have a look!

About the water heater, after all you are the "FE specialist"...? Have you heard about Keely, transducers and ultrasonic technology as we discussed earlier? Study and conclude for yourself - but first go and have a look.....

If you donīt want t ogo I am sure many other knowledgeable people can replace you. Realize your forum will win many new supporters if this is for real and gets out to the masses. And isnīt that what we all want?

Gauss,

I have never said these technologies don't work. I have simply said that Tim has never shown anyone how the technologies work, and that if you are going to charge a FEE to show people, then just be honest about it!

Also, it is NOT up to me to go and see these technologies to declare to this forum that they are REAL. It is up to TIM to show us, after all, they are his technologies. Tim is a very smart guy, all other things considered, and he has never needed my approval before. Since nothing has changed, he does not need my approval now.

As I have said, I work for a living. I cannot afford to DONATE my time and the out-front costs of airfare, car rental, hotel room, and meals to go see Tim's demonstrations "for free" just to verify his technology. Sorry, but your "offer" is not accepted. On the other hand, if Tim wants to pay my standard consulting fee of $800/day plus all expenses, I would be happy to go see his demonstrations, evaluate their validity, and report back to this forum thread, if that is what he wants me to do.

I don't care if Tim has these technologies. If he does, he has had them for years. Why do I get blamed for Tim's unwillingness to share information about his technologies? I reject all of your criticisms of me and what I have said here.

Everybody I know who has an advanced technology is either sharing it freely in forums like this, or keeping it proprietary and trying to raise money for it within some business structure. As far as I am concerned, both of these are legitimate courses of action.

So, if you want to share something about "the World's most efficient water heater", then just do it. On the other hand, if Tim wants me to raise $200M for him to move forward to commercialize a finished technology, then I can do that too.

The ball is in your court, and you haven't scored one point yet. If I were you, I'd quit playing games.

Peter

[Guest]

Peter, I am sorry but my patience with you is up, to summarize your standpoints:

You disgust Witts for whatever reasons(normally insecurity of yourself and who you are lies behind all childish acts of hatred and pride) and want NOTHING to do with them whatsoever for personal reasons.

You never answerred whether you have personally used Sir Timothyīs consultancy favours....

Your pitiful act is that you disgust them and critizice them and havenīt got the guts to stand up for yourself disproving their tech despite an invitation! You even called it "Poppycock" and now you say it could well work - do you have any principles.....

Keep quiet until you have the courage and knowledge to disprove them! And donīt talk about money - you can spend two days of your precious time looking into a tech revolution when you spent 30 years guessing about the Gray engine... This is all about fear and a drama queen.

No matter if Witts is 500 years ahead of your FE books you are scared to death of their tech and your "position" in the FE community which really is in doubt after your actions here. When you have ONE FE tech to show that really works and is demonstrable you are credible as an expert but not before that.

The consulting fees are BESIDES the point about the tech and Witts people(dozens of top class engineers) must live too and sell consultancy hours which are in demand(from you? ) - we just want to know if this tech works and we will find out, in fact everything points to the fact that it does work, your actions just point even further in this direction and then all people on this forum should focus on understanding and enhancing Witts - they donīt bite I can tell you.....

I for once will continue marketing them here and in fact Tim has agreed to release some good testimonies for FREE . I will try and make sure knowledgeable and generous people get to see this technology to further enhance the PROGRESS of REAL FE technology to the masses. If they open source or not is besides the point right now, the most important is to get the news out there and get more senior people like real pro engineers to confirm their tech.

I can tell the other members a few more things:

Witts have 200 videos of different devices and had a pay-per-view site up recently but it was taken down after a week. Now they want to find a hacker who can keep it redundant after getting shot down. They are about 12 senior scientists/ministers and do anything between motors, quantum devices and transmutation(some guys have been killed after making platina) stuff.

They need to cut the crystals(transducers) in many apps and for this they need expensive high precision nanomachines. They are not so strong in programming and web computing and need to increase their strength in this area to improve communication with the world.

[theremart]

RE: Guass

It seems you are more interested in throwing mud than showing evidence that this device works, from reading your last post.

These devices have the exact same characteristics of the Mylow magnet motor, they have wonderful videos, but zero third party testing from the evidence shown so far.

Whether this guy is real or false I do not know, but after seeing the methods of several con artist he matches them to the letter. If what he has is true then he should not mind having a third party verify his work to establish what he says is true. And, that third party needs to be someone who knows electronics and at a location that he could not have hidden motors or other devices that he may be using to deceive us.

[Peter Lindemann]

One Last Reply

Peter, I am sorry but my patience with you is up, to summarize your standpoints:

You disgust Witts for whatever reasons(normally insecurity of yourself and who you are lies behind all childish acts of hatred and pride) and want NOTHING to do with them whatsoever for personal reasons.

You never answerred whether you have personally used Sir Timothyīs consultancy favours....

Your pitiful act is that you disgust them and critizice them and havenīt got the guts to stand up for yourself disproving their tech despite an invitation! You even called it "Poppycock" and now you say it could well work - do you have any principles.....

Keep quiet until you have the courage and knowledge to disprove them! And donīt talk about money - you can spend two days of your precious time looking into a tech revolution when you spent 30 years guessing about the Gray engine... This is all about fear and a drama queen.

No matter if Witts is 500 years ahead of your FE books you are scared to death of their tech and your "position" in the FE community which really is in doubt after your actions here. When you have ONE FE tech to show that really works and is demonstrable you are credible as an expert but not before that.

The consulting fees are BESIDES the point about the tech and Witts people(dozens of top class engineers) must live too and sell consultancy hours which are in demand(from you? ) - we just want to know if this tech works and we will find out, in fact everything points to the fact that it does work, your actions just point even further in this direction and then all people on this forum should focus on understanding and enhancing Witts - they donīt bite I can tell you.....

I for once will continue marketing them here and in fact Tim has agreed to release some good testimonies for FREE . I will try and make sure knowledgeable and generous people get to see this technology to further enhance the PROGRESS of REAL FE technology to the masses. If they open source or not is besides the point right now, the most important is to get the news out there and get more senior people like real pro engineers to confirm their tech.

I can tell the other members a few more things:

Witts have 200 videos of different devices and had a pay-per-view site up recently but it was taken down after a week. Now they want to find a hacker who can keep it redundant after getting shot down. They are about 12 senior scientists/ministers and do anything between motors, quantum devices and transmutation(some guys have been killed after making platina) stuff.

They need to cut the crystals(transducers) in many apps and for this they need expensive high precision nanomachines. They are not so strong in programming and web computing and need to increase their strength in this area to improve communication with the world.

Gauss,

This will be my last post to this thread, but before I leave, I would like to clear up the points you so cleverly misrepresent above. Your goofy statements, I have marked in RED and answered below.

1) I have never said "I wanted nothing to do with Tim". I have socialized with him before, and he is pleasant enough. I have nothing against him, personally.

2) I did say that I have never received ANY information from Tim, in a professional venue or even a casual conversation.

3) I never said Tim's technology was "Poppycock". What I did say, in Post #6, is that your reference to "Ed Gray working in the WITTS lab" was provably untrue, and therefore, "Poppycock"!

4) Your demand that I keep quiet is rejected. I will share what I know with people to the best of my ability, and will not take any directives from you.

5) It is not up to me to "disprove" Tim's technology. It is up to Tim to prove it to the rest of us. Tim's failure to do this does not cast any negative light on me.

6) You tell me "don't talk about money". Fine, I agree to this. That means you do not want me to come and evaluate Tim's technology on a professional basis or raise development capital for any of Tim's technologies. OK. However, you should also follow your own advice, so NO MORE TROLLING FOR MANDATORY DONATIONS HERE!

7) This one is my personal favorite: "we just want to know if this tech works and we will find out". So, you are admitting that YOU DON'T KNOW whether Tim's technologies work! Of course you are, because to the best of my knowledge, Tim has never shown ANYONE that they work. Apparently, that includes YOU.

8) OK, now you say that "Tim has agreed to release some good testimonies for FREE". This is a meaningless gesture when it comes to either demonstrating or explaining his technologies. Does Tim actually think this will raise his credibility in the eyes of the members of this forum?

All right, I am done with this goofiness. I hope the members of this thread can see through what has transpired here and draw the appropriate conclusions. I can't waste anymore time with it.

Good luck,

Peter

[Aaron]

the point to demos???

I'm not sure how seeing a demo helps anything. I'm happy that Sterling and I are welcome to see a free demo too, but... I think it would be fun and probably even exciting and if to the best of my ability to understand it came back here and reported to everyone that I saw something that seemed to be real... THEN WHAT? What is the next step?

There are many others that are way more qualified than myself to examine the claims anyway but even if the most qualified person in the world examined them - it still wouldn't do any good unless the entire thing was disclosed.

Even if I (or anyone else) saw a demo, it is impossible to actually verify that any technology is actually working as claimed UNLESS the working method is revealed.

Is that information going to be revealed at the demo? Probably not. And if not, the demo remains nothing more than amusement.

It is true that many possibilities can be ruled out as far as different methods of trickery, but not all because no expert will know every method. I'm not saying there is trickery involved but seeing something that appears to be working does not further anything in the FE field in any tangible way...it may inspire some ideas or motivation but I think that is about it.

I don't blame Timothy for holding this information in such high secrecy because any real free energy technology is dangerous in the wrong hands. I'm not saying that is his reason for keeping the know how secret but there are many valid reasons for not disclosing the magic recipe.

Everyone can demo how a Coca Cola tastes but no matter what, nobody knows how to brew it up according to their secret recipe. Countless billions of cans of Coke has been drank by billions of people around the world and still nobody knows how to make it.

[Guest]

Ok Peter, I see your words again and your typical rejections of all feedback.

How do you teach an old dog to sit? Canīt be done!

You have problems or else you would never behave like this, an FE researcher serious about staying on top of his field would have been in Ohio long ago(decades ago that is) checking this out. There is nothing bigger out there.

These hard words that you used against Tim and Witts fall hard back on yourself when you donīt have the guts going there proving what you cried out loud here. If you say something you stand for it! You said it so you go there to prove your statements - any man would agree.

In my world when you attack other people openly you need to show you are right in doing so or else you keep quiet since everything in the world is not what it looks like.

That separates the professional guy from the amateur tea chatter.

If Witts charged you 100 USD for one hour and you use their info to sell your book that is fine by me and you isnīt it?

If they want to keep the secret about some key concepts fine by me, what they tell me is they want to get some tech out and get some money in return to be able to expand their R&D. My impression is that the more knowledgeable you are the better consultations you get from them. So read up first, put questions then, etc, etc.

About Mylow Witts have it up and running since about a week now but the tech is useless because the magnets wear out and extremely small changes in the geometry ruins the rotation.

What separates Mylow from Witts is MANPOWER and several generations of experimenting. I quote Schauberger: With a penknife and a few cents in your pocket not much can be done....

Letīs start by publicising some testimonies here soon shall we... And if Peter Lindemann thinks real PhDs(which Ivy league school did he graduate from btw?) from top positions in Fortune 500 companies are useless that stands for him.

[Guest]

@Aaron

About the demos uselessness, well it is IMPORTANT to me that someone can do FE demos without fishlines or hidden cables etc... That means everyone has a real starting point to do investigations.

And since everything about this tech points to Keely and sympathetic vibrations it is DAMNED DIFFICULT to say the least. In case anyone in here has out some energy into Keely he would know what I mean, the man was a miracle.

That means you would not understand it even if they put the answers into your mouth since it implies you understand Keely which almost nobody does as far as I know. And they do that in the video, they show the 7 transducers(2 pairs plus neutral center), they tell us it is based on Keelyīs work and they use 42.8 kHz as the ground frequency to create the standing waves and the dissonance breaking up the water molecules from within and letting aether inside. Well, that doesnīt help alot does it?

[jibbguy]

Gauss, that was a powerful and obviously heart-felt response, and i and others here, would honor your opinions and beliefs as being as "valid" as our own; and we would hope that disagreements on these subjects do not cause any hard feelings.

Regarding WITTS wish to get some tech out to the world and to publish some testimonials, that sounds great.

I, for one, would certainly be very interested in what they offer. Especially such as a schematic for the "800 Watt Generator" (complete with component values, and perhaps assy. instructions and adjustment advice), which is a fascinating system and one we could possibly eventually embrace as a world-wide Open Source project... Which in turn would virtually end the questions about WITTS and so gain them many times more donations than presently!

A better time for such a wondrous thing to happen i cannot imagine.

So please pass this request on, and please also mention that many of the good people here, and all over for that matter... Really are hoping for "success", hoping for a new age of energy to come. It is perhaps sad that there is such suspicion; but it is a response to those, who obviously really do exist out there, who would take advantage of our wishes and fervent desire for a better future... To better only their own. So it is, and won't change until that "golden age" finally comes

[Aaron]

demos

About the demos uselessness, well it is IMPORTANT to me that someone can do FE demos without fishlines or hidden cables etc...

The point is that it is impossible to know if there are hidden cables, etc... used unless the operating method is revealed and can be duplicated. Unless it is revealed, it is always going to be questionable. Just because trickery isn't found doesn't mean that there isn't trickery.

Out of all the technologies that Timothy has, I'm sure he could donate one of them to the public domain. After that, money will fall out of the sky for his other technologies I believe.

As far as fishlines and hidden cables, there is undeniable evidence (evidence doesn't mean proof) that Keeley's demos may have been fraud.

KEELY'S FRAUD