Worldīs most efficient water heater and No 1 group of free energy research etc...

[theremart]

Following your line of thought..

The point is that it is impossible to know if there are hidden cables, etc... used unless the operating method is revealed and can be duplicated. Unless it is revealed, it is always going to be questionable. Just because trickery isn't found doesn't mean that there isn't trickery.

Out of all the technologies that Timothy has, I'm sure he could donate one of them to the public domain. After that, money will fall out of the sky for his other technologies I believe.

As far as fishlines and hidden cables, there is undeniable evidence (evidence doesn't mean proof) that Keeley's demos may have been fraud.

KEELY'S FRAUD

The difference between Timothy's devices and Coke a cola is there are tons of people using the product they get to experience the end result.

Agreed evidence does not mean absolute proof. But when spending money it is better to have more than the inventor's word on it.

Thinking it thru, where are the satisfied customers of Timothy? If they have paid the $ where are the generators that are now running on this device?

Next question, if the devices do what they say they can do, why are they not generating all of their own energy and selling energy back to the grid? If they have these devices, then they should have a substantial income that they would not even need to ask for money.

If the reason is that they are afraid of it falling into the wrong hands then why set a price on it? I mean, do you sell the device to the wrong hands for a price?

[sucahyo]

Is there any benefit for us if we donate our money to witt instead of to panacea or other free energy website? I think if we have money we should help people that do the research and showing/reporting their work and allow us to replicate. It would guarantee people will get something in return. I don't care if it's a real deal or not but how do we know that Witt do not make a commercial product with our donation money? It would be no different than donating to TOYOTA or Sharp to develop green energy. They would make use the money to make a working green energy stuff, but we still have to buy their product to taste it.



BTW, about Hans von Lieven, He seems to overlook the frequency needed to make Keely machine to operate, he may overlook other important detail to replicate Keely's work too.
From Lieven site:


From Keely and His discoveries book.



He may be wrong to state that Keely's machine are too complex to replicate. His attempt to replicate the device seems very different from Dale Pond which already built one of Keely's device and explain his experience in building one here:
Roots of the Vibratory Etheric Tree


Should we trust anything posted at KEELY'S FRAUD , should we trust Hans von Lieven at all ?

[esaruoho]

Thinking it thru, where are the satisfied customers of Timothy? If they have paid the $ where are the generators that are now running on this device?

well, when i accessed the members page and read the tastements, and saw the two scanned-in bills (electrical and heating), the bills were from people who had WITTS devices installed.
but, of course, you'd need to order an actual printout from the powercompany, and might still not believe.

[Guest]

Sucahyo I believe we need to start a separate thread about Keelyīs technology and start by clear definitions of his musical terms just like Hans says. Harmonic, enharmonic, diatonic, dischords, conchords, octaves, overtones, etc, etc.

And then I believe Hans means that it is impossible to build the mechanical resonance that he did with that kind of precision that he had. In addition you must be a musical genius to just get the device starting and detect the exact resonance tones of the geometry. And Keelyīs devices changed resonance tones from one day to another, in brief they were almost impossible to operate for anyone but Keely who was a genius beyond anyone I have ever heard of. And itīs just sad Tesla and Schauberger etc donīt credit him.... There should be at least as many forums about his tech as about Tesla...

What Hans means is that we should replicate Keelyīs work by exact frequency electronics(crystals) just like Tesla tried and Moray continued.

So letīs first discuss the music terminology and then the transducers shall we? You want to do start the thread because I am too choked at the moment? Thanks for your hard work, I will try to help as much as I can.


About Witts isnīt it great their tech works?! Only that is worth as much as all open source projects alltogether. Because in due time we will all be able to do that tech level. And I believe they could open source but the challenge will always be the tuning of the transducers which will cost too much time and money. So we need to figure out a better way to do it... Maybe geometry and spin is the way.

[sucahyo]

I don't think I will start a thread about Keely device because I don't think I have anything more to suggest or experiment. I think it is better to see the progress of Bob boyce cell replication or Stanley meyer replication.

What is the relation between Keely and Schauberger? Scahuberger explosive water do not use resonant as the key principle but use spesific way of fluid movement instead.

About precision, I think it depend on the approach. I think there should be a way to achieve it with less precision. Or else it wouldn't work if we move it to another place because it became too sensitive to temperature, humidity, elevation, air pressure, etc. Remind me of Bob boyce electrolysis cell or Stanley Meyer replication. If the device become too sensitive with environment change, I think it is better to find another way because the solution become too costly to become a free energy device.

Getting energy efficient device is only half of the effort, we need to make it cost efficient too. Nobody would be interested in buying 10 years worth of electricity bill free energy device that can only last for two years or have expensive maintenance or operating cost.

I don't think having precision crystal would be enough if we go to electronic way. Even generating the same volume for left and right channel in a stereo system is quite a challenge. I think the device would need a precision measurement tool, and for component: precision resistor, precision transistor, precision chip, precision diode, precision coil, precision capacitor, precision wire, etc. I don't think it is available in the market since most of the component have more than 1% deviation. I imagine the device would be very very expensive.

On the second though, maybe using usual crystal with some resistor with different value in series can compete with precision crystal. I don't see the point of the precision crystal if we still have to use variable resistor or variable capacitor to tune it.

[Guest]

Compare GEET, Meyer injector, Schauberger Kudu horn and Stuttgart experiment and you will see that resonance and vortex is key for all of the devices. One needs to read alot and consider even more, after awhile if you are lucky yu see a flash and you see the light. I believe 30-50 books about FE researchers is a must from many different sources. Same theme everywhere, combine the stuff and you get further, though Keely, Tesla and Shcauberger are real keys. Keely is the origin of all other researchers, one page from him holds as much value as 100-1000 pages from other authors. Too bad and understandable they burned all his books....

[sucahyo]

Yes, it is a big loss that Keely's book being burned.

But I still failed to see why Schauberger have to credit Keely? In what way Schauberger use Keely work? I am aware that Viktor Schauberger use a device that force the fluid to spiral on a spiral on a spiral on a spiral. If he have to give credit, I think it should be the scientist behind "occult chemistry".

About vortex, I only see it being active in improving water quality. I don't see it being used in free energy device. Can you mention some device that utilize vortex?

An FE device utilizing Schauberger vortex should not generate heat, it should absorb heat. I think tesla turbine work the opposite of what Viktor Schauberger mention. It should be interesting to see more progress in this area. Water in my cup became fresh cold after few hours of being placed inside HV part of radiant oscillator one wire coil. But this is the furthest I can go for Schauberger methode in electronics experiment. 555 based coil collpase current:
YouTube - Moving neon bulb light #2

[esaruoho]

ok, ive seen the gift page now, or the proposal for it. theres quite a few plans and also devices. the prices are not cheap.

[Guest]

Sucahyou, you read the book Living Energies from Callum Coats where he made a drawing of the last version of the Repulsine with Kudu anthelope horns? If you saw that drawing you would know what I mean, it is based on resonance(freq) and a centripetal-vcentrifugal movement as Keely suggested. And the Stuttgart experiment where he finds resonance spots in the flow rate where resistance drops to negative in the curled pipe? Study it.

When you read his 40 laws yuo realize the guys after him got it all served and there is ALOT that remains to be understood about Keelyīs work, he was a genius beyond anyone and surely the most gifted man in the history of mankind, he got the whole picture of nature down to ethereal energy in freqs and resonances calculated. Did you know magnetism has a freq of 128.4 kHz(triplet of water freq 42.8 kHz)??? Just a very small detail from his work. His work is just unimaginable and very few people can see it. Read Universal Laws.

[sucahyo]

Sucahyo, you read the book Living Energies from Callum Coats where he made a drawing of the last version of the Repulsine with Kudu anthelope horns? If you saw that drawing you would know what I mean, it is based on resonance(freq) and a centripetal-centrifugal movement as Keely suggested. And the Stuttgart experiment where he finds resonance spots in the flow rate where resistance drops to negative in the curled pipe? Study it.

I don't agree that it is based on Keely's work since it would work not only at spesific frequency, resonant frequency maybe different and it would still work. While Keely's work use a spesific frequency tuning, and it would not work if the device resonant frequency changed.

And Viktor Schauberger only want centripetal movement and absolutely forbid utilizing a centrifugal movement. They have different way of getting more energy. Keely use frequency to disrupt atom while Schauberger use atom like movement to make it stronger or transmute it. Different.

[Guest]

Well, he obviously did not "forbid" it although it is a bad thing to use in isolation.

What he did is he used centripetal-centrifugal force at the same time in the rotating Kudu horn which is a completely different thing. Cycloid-spiralling motion is a term used.

About Keely the best friend of Schauberger was Rudolf Steiner who was the biggest fan of of Keely and Keely said cycloid-spiralling movement is the future and that is what the rotating Kudu horn is all about. Schauberger clearly got the Keely information, maybe from Steiner.

This is like electronics only bigger stuff is used.

I donīt believe you read those books that I mention so the discussion is somewhat useless.

[Joit]

Schauberger did absolutly nothing with Frequencies, they been a Sideeffect of his buildings,
and his Basics are complete Different from Keelys or any other Electrommagnetic Devices.

[Guest]

Joit, that stands for you, I see it the opposite way but I read many books about Schauberger and in case you study the Stuttgart experiment you can celarly see the sinus curve of resonance points.

[Joit]

Guess, better dont start to talk about, what stands for whom.
You attack anyone, even personal, if he doesnt have your Opinion,
because you have the Knowledge of the World rented.
You still cry around with Stan Meyer, and new Solutions, how to made it,
even WHEN H20Power almost completed the Thread about the Theme, and this exemplary,
but you allways come with new Ideas, how it HAS to Work, because its your Opinion.

Why dont you go finally and BUILD SUCH A DAMN COIL, or the complete Stan Meyer Device, and THEN give Results and your Suggestions,
as to order PEOPLES, " NOW YOU HAVE DO AND TO BUY THIS THING."
You allways make a lot Blablabla, where nothing, absolutly nothing comes around.
But you dont show one Pice of Practically Experience.
All you say is basically, "I Know", because "I read that"
It has something good, when someone can put new Ideas out,
but seriously, there is nothing, where someone can be very proud of this like you are.

I read a lot of Sience from the Internet too, and its full of Stuff,
but once, there are mostly not all Infos in, what you need to proper rebuild something, even at the Patents, because they leave mostly something out,
and second, when you ever had build once such a Thing, you would see,
Only one Time, that Theorie and Pratice are mostly Miles apart,
plus, there are a lot Patents out, where it isnt even sure, that they ever worked.
And now you came with another Research Group, where you think, the best would be when all should join and if noone agree you play a defiantly Child, and i personally dislike H.v.Lieven, because he looks more like one from this overpowered Researchers, it looks more like, he can tell you, how it doesnt work, instead an other Way.

What you see from Schauberger is again how you will see it,
but its not this, what he talks about.
I can read his Homepage and Sites very well, and know, in wich Direction he worked.
All his Designs base only at the golden Ratio and Implosion instead Explosion,
that are his Basic Effects with what he did work about,
and not because i only can think this way, Dont worry.
His Devices all worked with any Kind of Fluid, what become a better COP with his Design.
His research at the musical Scale just show us, that they are all based at the Golden Ratio too.
Frequency is there the Consequence

[RAMSET]

Worldīs most efficient water heater and No 1 group of free energy research etc... Wo

To comment on the original topic
Gauss
Esa
JibGuy
Others
I agree Thrapp/Witts needs to be looked at MUCH closer ,and I appreciate your efforts in doing so.
Perhaps the new developments in OUR /their world will entice them to share

Chet