Worldīs most efficient water heater and No 1 group of free energy research etc...

[Guest]

Joit, is everyone entitled to an opinion about tech? Thanks.

I want to HELP people and I am no MIB(!), I urge people to read Callum Coats, Stuttgart experiment, Kelvin waterdropper etc. I want to see PROGRESS and I sincerely believe I have alot of progress left to do... I also believe some others can progress.. Yes talking about stuff is only first step, doing is second step. I can not do what Witts is doing but I try to find other ways. Ultrasonic transducers is a fresh approach to shatter polarized water with extreme OU, letīs try it shall we..... Even if it is your not your or my idea...

Maybe one day more practical news will come.

[sucahyo]

I donīt believe you read those books that I mention so the discussion is somewhat useless.

I do. I also forgot that the stuggart experiment result of the copper pipe resistance become positive again is actually an intended extrapolation not by Schauberger. So there maybe no sweet spot or resonant water speed, maybe just minimum water speed (limit not range). Commonly, speeding water do not associated with frequency.

Notice that in his device the kudu horn shape are used from big spiral/hole to small spiral/hole, never the opposite. But, don't read just the kudu horn part please.

I have been experimenting a bit with copper water funnel. I must say I am surprise. The pipe do resist less, the water get to the bottom like there is no pipe:


Now become my kid's favorite toy when he goes to bath because of funny gurgled noise when it suck the water down . And again, I do not tune it for spesific frequency.

Schauberger attracted ,to spiralling movement from observing water snake and water movement while he build his first water log.

Joit, that stands for you, I see it the opposite way but I read many books about Schauberger and in case you study the Stuttgart experiment you can celarly see the sinus curve of resonance points.

That is wrong assumption, see the note of the graphic, and notice where the estimated line start.
Alexandersson - Living Water - Viktor Schauberger and the Secrets of Natural Energy:


Schauberger do avoid using centrifugal:
since he want to make healthy device instead of killing device.


not posting quote kinda empty lol, the summary of long quote bellow are:
- Schauberger hate explosion/centrifugal device.
- no spesific frequency, he just utilize centripetal for his plough, repulsin, water pump, etc.

Bartholomew - Hidden Nature - The Startling Insights of Viktor Schauberger

Our mechanical, technological systems of motion are based on explosive, outward pushing energies which always meet resistance, producing heat and friction. This form of movement goes out at a tangent, producing the fastest movement at the periphery (as in a wheel), a form of motion that is disintegrative, noisy and inefficient, because so much of the energy is dissipated. The effect is to break apart, to fragment. This is the way we generate our power; from the inside to the outside. It is called centrifugal movement, and is a process that Nature will use only to break down before reassembly into some other form takes place (see Fig. 1.2, p. 33).

By contrast, Nature uses the opposite, centripetal, form of motion, moving from the outside to the inside with increasing velocity, which acts to cool, to condense, to structure; like water going down a plughole. When we talk of something imploding on itself, there is not the resistance or dissipation of energy that is found in the explosive process. The reverse takes place, cooling and condensing. Schauberger called this 'constructive' movement.

The centrifugal form of movement should not be called 'destructive,' because the word has such a negative connotation, and it has its rightful purpose in Nature; instead he called it'deconstructive.' Viktor Schauberger demonstrated with his remarkable implosion machines that replicated the in-winding motion of Nature, that this was the way to create energy for human needs in the future.

Though Schauberger was mainly engaged with building flotation installations until 1939, he also busied himself with many other problems. In addition to methods for regulating and regenerating water, he was fascinated by the production of useful forms of energy. Through observations and experiments he had become aware of the contrast between Nature's way of working, and man-made technology. He became more and more convinced that human technology is life-threatening and inhibits evolutionary growth. It is not just a question of air and water pollution. Though they were serious in themselves, he saw these absurdities as secondary problems. The fundamental question is: must there not be something basically wrong with the principles behind modern technology to have led to such serious consequences for forests, for water, for soil; and all life?

...
The form of movement which creates, develops, purifies and grows is the hyperbolic spiral which externally is centripetal and internally moves towards the centre. We find it everywhere in Nature where growth or movement is taking place, in the spiralling of the nebulae in space, in the movement of our planetary system, in the natural flow of water, blood and sap. On the other hand, the destructive and dissolving form of movement is centrifugal in Natureit forces the moving medium from the centre outwards towards the periphery in straight lines. The particles of the medium appear to be forced out from the centre. The medium is first weakened, then it dissolves and breaks up.

Coats & Schauberger - Living Energies - Viktor Schaubergers Brilliant Work With Natural Energy Explained

This is typical of our forms of technical movement, in which there is initially no motion at the centre, but with increasing distance from this point, velocity and resistance also increase. The axial->radial centrifugal form of motion can thus be defined as divergent, decelerating, dissipating, structure-loosening, disintegrating, destructive and friction-inducing. While the destructive diffusion of energy results in noise, the creative concentration of energy, however, is silent. Indeed, as Viktor asserted on many occasions, "Everything that is natural is silent, simple and cheap."
...
According to Viktor Schauberger this expansion can be significantly enhanced with the addition of a few drops of a highly complex carbone, such as oil. It is this powerfully expansive phenomenon which can be very simply exploited and converted to the mechanical energy required to drive electric generators. This should not be done with conventional centrifugal impellers, however, because they destroy both the structure and the quality of the water. Rather, centripetal impellers should be used of a design similar to that shown in large scale detail in fig. 10.5, which in this case was taken from Viktor Schauberger's patent for an air turbine3 and which improves the quality of the medium used to drive it.
...
Centrifugal impeller: the intake of water is along the axis of rotation in front of and perpendicular to the radially-ribbed impeller disc and is expelled tangentially under pressure at right-angles to the direction of inflow due to the action of centrifugal force. It has a disintegrative effect on water.

Centripetal impeller: The water is introduced tangentially and exits axially in a longitudinal vortex down the central axis of rotation, which creates suction, cools and coheres the structure of the water.

[Guest]

@Sucahyou, do you think you can argue with me about somehting without having seen the drawing in the books of the spinning Kudu horn? I am not going to argue in words about a drawing.

If you spin a Kudu horn, how do you think the water inside the horn will move? Centrifugally - BUT in a centripetal way since the outer diameter of the whirling pipe is diminishing until you reach the nozzle where you pick up tremendous force.

Centripetal is basic but the spinning Kudu horn is the interesting step to a higher level which resembles cosmos.

[Aaron]

COP 17 Heater | Rosemary Ainslie

For an efficient heater (COP 17) go here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...eld-model.html

[sucahyo]

This?

What I know is that the fluid will flow to the center. This is the natural movement so we may not have to force it, there maybe no centrifugal force involved.

This kind of vortex is not only found naturally at very large scale like in space but also in very small scale in atom. At the last disintegration state of atom, it form an eggshaped vortex where matter will transform to energy but also at the same time energy will transform to matter in the center of it (occult chemistry theory). in higher disintegration state, atom consist of many spiral that form a bigger spiral in 7 step of size.

Keely mention atom as a group three thing. In Occult chemistry this only seen in Hydrogen atoms, where it is consist of two group of three thing. Keely mention it has positive, negative and neutral. While Occult chemistry mention it to has positive, positive and negative in one group while in other group positive, negative and negative.

Since I believe the existance of intelligent living being in unseen world, also because this world consist of 7 level, I believe Occult Chemistry more. I think the people who write it got help from the intelligent living being from unseen world. Just like TRV or remote healing or other supranatural power.

Keely seems do not believe/know the existance of this unseen world, which is a pity. The reason King Solomon have people from this unseen world working for him is because the flute of King David can also cure living being from unseen world.

Current science think that air have to go straight, seen in vertical section added in aeroplane wing and racing car. Since fluid will attempt to move in spiral, it would be interesting to see the result of racing car or aeroplane utilizing spiral air movement maybe enveloping their whole body instead of attempting to correct it.

I hope to see a device that working by spiral prinsiple.

[Guest]

Yes taht is the shape and you mount many of them in circular fashion in 1D and spins the whole arrangemetn very fast with a neutral center of suction. The water flows from center out to the periphery with tremendous force. 1D centrifugal, 2D centripetal - are you with me?

[esaruoho]

gauss, schauberger got it from nature, not from keely.
wilhelm reich also had his own spinning wave theory (kreiserwelle), which is somewhat similar to what schauberger was after, but whilst schauberger is talked about a lot, wilhelm reich's spinning-wave theory is almost never mentioned.

i think you're running the risk of creating schauberger history without there really being any basis on it. be very careful!
schauberger term cycloid-space-curve..

What he did is he used centripetal-centrifugal force at the same time in the rotating Kudu horn which is a completely different thing. Cycloid-spiralling motion is a term used.
About Keely the best friend of Schauberger was Rudolf Steiner who was the biggest fan of of Keely and Keely said cycloid-spiralling movement is the future and that is what the rotating Kudu horn is all about. Schauberger clearly got the Keely information, maybe from Steiner. I donīt believe you read those books that I mention so the discussion is somewhat useless.

[sucahyo]

Yes taht is the shape and you mount many of them in circular fashion in 1D and spins the whole arrangemetn very fast with a neutral center of suction. The water flows from center out to the periphery with tremendous force. 1D centrifugal, 2D centripetal - are you with me?

No, I can't translate a 1D centrifugal. I see centrifugal as a force, a vector which require direction, not as scalar 1D value. Maybe you mean 2D and 3D.

Either way, you are talking only one level of spiraling motion. What I mean is spiraling motion inside a spiraling motion:
Occult Chemistry:


Viktor Schauberger:


The design of the turbine are a close resemblance of atomic movement but with the output has smaller diameter. Schauberger seems trying to achieve as many level of spiralling as possible.

[Guest]

Ok, now before we go any further about this discussion you MUST read the book Living Energies from Callum Coats and check out his drawing of the Repulsine in the last chapter, his drawing tells the whole story although i would modify it when building it, it is a good start however.

The radial direction through the Kudu horns give a centrifugal discharge vector(a force oftremendous magnitude) through the 4 nozzles agains the turbine elements of the diamter periphery. And yes the water flows radially from the neutral center to the periphery of the circle. But in a centripetal spiralling movement from center to periphery.

I believe that if you want to do stuff in MW range you should look at this drawing.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I understand were all only human as far as I know, but this comment from Aaron is very interesting to me.
Quote: "For some of us, info that is released, research in front of and behind the scenes is actually how some of us make a living. Some of us make a living by doing this full time. If we gave away all our work for free, we will have to go on welfare and be burden to society and become nothing but a problem instead of being a part of the solution."
It can be said, as many have already up to this point in history, that all the energy technologies and then some that humanity needs to become independent of any centralized source have been invented already, so why then are we focusing on creating that which is already here. The quote above In my opinion is the real reason the people of all lands do not as yet have access to a cheap unlimited independent energy source and this is not aimed at Aaron as an attack or any other such thing. In fact It Is a statement of our world and I am using his words to highlight the real cause.
Now why is a human being on welfare a burden, when the fact is the systems are set up that way and at any time in history there have always been millions of these so called burdens due to these very systems. So then, can it be honestly said that the human being on welfare is the burden or is the truth just the opposite, that the systems of society still in operation are the burden. So then can we see that the solution will never come from this way of thinking. I am well aware of the sticky situation we have all been put in just by being born into this planet, however I can assure you that If we as a human race insist on following these old ways of thinking that were started long ago by greed, power, fear and you know the rest i am sure, then we will never move ahead to see a 'golden age'. True survival is sharing freely that which our creator has given us, which is everything. You can choose to believe that self survival is actually survival, but then tell me how will a tree survive without branches. In conclusion, I did not write this to come off as some know it all preacher, I wrote it to try and offer wisdom and my love for all life even though most around me seem more caught up in the drama of life than to look where there going.
peace love light

[sucahyo]

Ok, now before we go any further about this discussion you MUST read the book Living Energies from Callum Coats and check out his drawing of the Repulsine in the last chapter, his drawing tells the whole story although i would modify it when building it, it is a good start however.

Ok, centrifugal force exist in there. Just realize that maybe a centripetal and centrifugal term maybe missused since Schauberger said to never have college education.

But I can't see the relation of it to Keely. I still can't find reference where Keely suggest the use of cycloid motion. Keely don't use cycloid in his device as far as I know. The reference about cycloid in Dale Pond svpvril.com page refer to Schauberger.


About people make living by holding some of free energy information and only publish some of them, I think it is better to leave them do that instead of having no one working on free energy device. Although they have to make sure to make a backup copy of their work so it would not lost forever.

[esaruoho]

hiya. for what its worth, the website that i volunteered to do for Thrapp/WITTS, i.e., their "gifts available for those who donate, specify the gift you want upon donating and receive it" page, or giftpage for short, is now online and available.

what i did was: 1) receive the information 2) correct SOME typos, not all 3) receive 3 images, 4) resize them 5) make a little page 6) add paypal buttons.

so there they are, what WITTS are willing to make available to those who help them with their fundraiser.

WITTS Giftpage

again, MERLib is completely unattached to any one movement - especially since quite a few seem to be locking horns (you know who you are). i'm here to help, and im doing it in good faith. i myself intend to order the free energy 101 eBook (i have no opinions on what to expect of it, but am waiting to receive it) and the atmospheric milliwatt electrical energy converter plans. i will read the ebook and consult the plans, and see where i end up in. there will (for 100% sure) be a MERLib review article about the eBook and about the plans, and the results of me trying to solder together the plan.

another detail is that i have been talking with Thrapp and have requested that WITTS make 5-10 pages of the eBook available as preview/tasters. since it is supposed to have some plans and experiments one can build, i will try to get those to be in the previews, so that maybe someone here who is inspired would build/replicate one of their little experiments and we could see what happens.

i will not be purchasing the flux switch transformer, flux switch generator or the flux switch motor, and am not interested in the mileage booster. the reason is that the next kit after the atmospheric converter is to get a friedrich bedini kit..

anyway, have fun. i'm sure i've given you enough fodder to flame on for the next week or so.

[RAMSET]

Esa
Thank you
looking forward to your article.

Chet

[jibbguy]

That fuel efficiency thingie looks to simply be a flexible magnet strip wrapped around a neoprene fuel line.

Is that correct?

Has anyone here ever tried that particular trick before? I know that magnets on fuel lines have an old and storied past, but this appears to be a new "twist" on it hehehe (sorry couldn't resist that one).

[esaruoho]

well, am still waiting for delivery