Impact of meat on the environment

[gotoluc]

I still can't condone anyone thinking they are removing themselves from the life and death cycle by consuming only plants.

I agree with a lot of what Randy is saying (although I think we do give back quite a bit with every breath we exhale, etc.). If I live I kill dust mites when I scratch my skin. If I kill myself for their sake they probably die too, plus all the other parasites living in me. (Plus I've killed myself.)

There is no way to escape the cycle of life and death.

I have no problem with vegetarians, just with those who falsely believe they have isolated themselves from the issue of death by doing so.

You are correct! one cannot escape the life and death cycle just by not taking part of the killing of animals.

It is a state of being that will free you from this cycle. Jesus is one example of many!.. He selflessly helped all in need.

This state of being is natural once one realizes All is One. It is from this Knowledge that one's actions will be loving to All.

We must understand that there is a difference of significance of life (evolved state) between a dust mite (insect) and a cow (mammal). I'm quite sure Jesus walked on an few ants (insects) to deliver his message to man!

We must use our ability to reason... once again! the order of evolution is, mineral, vegetation, insects, animals (fish to elephant) and the last is human. Dust mites are lower then the animal kingdom, take note that vegetation is also prior to the insect evolution!... so one of the many reasons for humans to chooses a vegetarian diet is the action of killing a soya plant to maintain protein has much less significance than killing a cow. But like I said, there are many other reasons!... helping to save our environment could be an important one if you don't believe in actions and consequences to the more evolved state of One.

and to All

Luc

[future pather]

the order of evolution is, mineral, vegetation, insects, animals (fish to elephant) and the last is human.

I suppose I struggle with this ranking system. Not sure if I buy into it. Because we are all interdependent, it's hard for me to put the importance of one over the other.

One thing I think we all pretty much agree on is improving how farming is currently being done.

Here's a petition I just got an e-mail about on that:

Swine flu: investigate and regulate


Jessica

[gotoluc]

I suppose I struggle with this ranking system. Not sure if I buy into it. Because we are all interdependent, it's hard for me to put the importance of one over the other.

Jessica

Actually Jessica, I think you would have no struggle with the ranking system given the right situation.

Let's put you in a house on fire. In the house there is a child and a pet animal, however the situation is so bad that you only have time to save one of the two. Which one would you chose?

Let's put you in the burning house again but this time there is only pet animals. One is dog or cat (which ever you prefer) an the other is a fish in a bowl. Which one would you chose?

Let's put you in the burning house again but this time there is only one pet animal and some insects. The pet animal is a fish in a bowl and the insects are worms in a composting container. Which one would you chose?

I can go on and bring a plant in the situation but I think that's not needed if you are being truthful since you should be seeing that in fact there is an order.

and to All

Luc

[future pather]

Yes but if you had to choose between never having any oxygen again and never having a dog, you would probably pick to have the oxygen. Does this prove that oxygen is superior to animals?

[gotoluc]

Yes but if you had to choose between never having any oxygen again and never having a dog, you would probably pick to have the oxygen. Does this prove that oxygen is superior to animals?

No, it only proves that human life is above animal life.

and to All

Luc

[future pather]

If that works for you, it's fine with me

[future pather]

Thought it through a little and (if anyone even cares at this point, lol) the reason I can't totally get on board is:

If a mama dog that just had puppies was in that house fire would she choose to save the puppies over the people?

I think your question may be relative to the species. And anyway it's not particular to eating food. We could keep pulling things in to the analogy to support our points.

And I'm sure we could each go on and on about the way we each see it. I have enjoyed exploring the different points and I think there are some great ideas in this thread.

In the end, for me it goes back to the scripture quote I posted earlier about not hanging each other up over the issue. But I do think the current mass production farming practices need huge improvements

[ray stewart]

solution

well with all of these very strong felings how about doing something constructive
i have a couple of hundred acres producing beef!
tell me a more profitable use for it
rainfall 600mm ayear
soil sandy loam
steep
climate temperate
pasture kicure and natives
carring capasity 1dse

[sucahyo]

Some idea for cattle rising:
- don't throw away the manure, I realy really surprise to learn that western technology choose to dispose it in river while in many developing country it is utilized at it's fullest. extract the bio gas then utilize it as fertilizer. At least store in a storage and spray some fungi before disposing it.
- use viktor schauberger waste water processing installation, there are some company that can install it.
- for experiment, try using kangen water from company like envirolyte where salted water being electrolized to make antiseptic and healthy water. Use the acidic water to bath cow/spray the manure and use the alkali water for cattle drink. Or made it yourself.
- for air ventilation, use 18th century technology. Make sure there is air circulation beneath the roof
- for water duct, add three onion stone in an array to avoid sedimentation, sorry forget the link - PKS schauberger stuff, should reduce water requirement and don't make manure sediment in duct.
- for lighting, make sure the light already implement rotoverter technology.
- for pump and tube, use spiral copper.

[Naboo]

Lighty,

It's like they are saying mother nature is immoral.

Should we kill all the carnivores? Oh wait, how 'bout genetically modify them?
(Since we know better than mother nature.)

This is a touchy subject, but if you got two simple choices and had to pick between one of them, would you rather kill 10 cows than one cow?

Looking at it this way, the number of plants necessary to feed a cow enough until it one day is slaughtered goes several orders above what would have been necessary if you yourself had eaten the plants. This is just one example of the moral issue of eating animals (especially those who are raised in a farm or factory...)

Another issue which I really think is the most important, is that animals are much more evolved and therefore much more sophisticated than the plants.

Thinking logically, pain can only be of use to a creature if it has a possibility to remove that pain, and therefore the cause of it. In an animal this would be either to fight or to run away, but plants can't choose any of the two, so what would the reason at all be for them to feel pain?

And yes, you not only can, but you must differentiate between different forms of living beings. We are all different, and must be treated differently based on our needs and wishes. Still we should all have equal rights and respect, and be allowed to live in the way which is the most natural for us.


I do not believe that humans at this stage need animal meat at all to survive, many scientific reports and studies shows that there is a wealth of positive effects of being a vegetarian, such as removing the risk of cardiac disease and reducing the intake of harmful fat acids. Contrary to scientific results is however the continuing belief that we "must eat meat in order to become big and strong", but its just not correct.
Beans of many types is filled with proteins, which we are told is one of the building blocks of our muscles and body.


Finally, we humans need to live, just as every other being needs to.
Pure carnivores such as cats and many types of birds must have meat in order to survive.
Bears and some other animals have also expanded their diet into plants as well, and can survive a whole winter just on small berries.
Humans on the other hand can live a long and healthy life by purely eating vegetables and fruits. We have evolved to the stage were we do no longer need to kill and slaughter other animals in order to survive, and for those of you who believe in karma, this should be of some importance....

Lastly, eating plants is of course not meant to be the end of human evolution, we will in time go past that point, until we will only be a plus to everything in nature, always giving more than we take. The evolution of animals into humans is still only a small step in our journey towards wisdom and enlightenment.

Wish you all the very best,
Julian.

[ashtweth]

If people at school learned the food nutritional pyramid, where you only need to eat 10% meat then why do people promote to eat more then 10% meat..vegan/vego with 10% meat nutritional dishes can be done, with only needing a 10% meat diet surly this tiny meat market could also be farmed ethically. Legislation from education showing Renewable energy-> Health FREE range organic conditions etc. I like the idea of a concept restaurant showing the un ethical farmed procedures HEALTH effects and how diverse you can make a vegan/vego and 10% meat dish OR MENUS. You can make some exotic new menus to reflect the food nutritional pyramid. You gotta start some where? Look at a vegan cook book, then look at a vegetarian cook book, now make a 10% meat STEAK patty (mix it in) and add exotic vegan/Vego side veggies.fills me up it will you too. its a PROFOUND concept, i made a pretty exotic mushroom steak like this, even the cat ate it!

I eat 51% raw foods
(beer does not count )
and ONLY organic 10% meat!!!!

THATS WHAT YOUR SUPPOSED TO EAT. 10% meat.
Super foods like Goji/spurilina etc rule
Beer is not a super food.
(Aarons beer is tho i heard)