"RICK'S PIPE DREAM" Magnetic Motor-Generator

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Hi Rick

I like the idea, keep it up. I have no time at the moment to do more on this but may be in the near future

Mike

[Mark]

Hello Rick

I'm glad to see your still working on your motor. I've been thinking a lot about your stator moving problem a lot lately. Hopefully what your trying will work but I'm thinking that when the wheel starts to get up to some decent speeds that you may run into problems.

I believe that a mechanical approach may be the best choice. I know you've already tried one method and may have other ideas but was wondering if you've thought about attaching an arm on the inner part of the wheel where there's more torque and may have less resistance on the wheel. Either a crankshaft style or possible a lobe style like on an automotive camshaft. The crankshaft style one could have an oval shaped connecting rod where it attaches to the crankshaft so the stator magnet would not be moving all the time, just back and forth. I realize that the engineering would be quite a bit of work and would change the rotor magnet arrangement but I thought I would just share the ideas with you.

Keep up the good work and I wish you the best.

Mark

[rickoff]

Hi Mark,

Yes, I thought considerably about a cam arrangement at the central hub, but decided against it. While this would certainly work well enough to provide the desired amount of carriage movement, there are problems with this method. First, the movement cannot begin until the last magnet of a rotor magnet group passes the stator magnet. As with any cam arrangement, the movement provided by the cam lobe must go from zero to maximum within a certain period of rotation. The change from zero to maximum must be gradual, rather than sudden, so this requires a substantial continued rotation of the wheel before the desired amount of carriage travel is achieved. During much of this time period, the stator would remain in re-attraction to the rotor magnet group, which is highly undesirable. Also, by the time the stator magnet would begin to repel the rotor magnet group, it would be far enough away so as to provide little repulsion acceleration. Remember, the objective is to move the stator magnet into repulsion mode as quickly as possible, so that the total amount of resultant repulsion effect is greater than the reattraction effect. This is why I chose to go instead with the magnetic interaction carriage movement method that I am working on now. The movement will be very quick at the tail end of each rotor magnet group, where less than one ounce of force is required to move the carriage. I understand your concern about the possibility that the movement may not be fast enough at higher rotation speeds. I have thought of that possibility too, but perhaps this will only require that stronger magnets be utilized. Then too, I don't see any necessity of the rotor turning at high speeds in order to generate useful power, especially while using a 24" rotor. With a large wheel like this, the effective speed of rotor magnet movement near the outer perimeter increases dramatically over what would be possible with a 6 inch rotor at the same rpm. The 6 inch rotor has a perimeter of about 19 inches, while a 24 inch rotor has a perimeter of more than 75 inches, and thus the rotor magnets are covering 4 times the distance they would move on a 6 inch rotor. In other words, the distance covered equals the effective speed of motion, rather than the rpm. I really don't see a need for high rpm's, and believe that even a 100 to 200 rpm range could be quite effective.

Then too, of course this is just a prototype, and anything can be changed that proves to be beneficial and enhances rotation and/or power generation. There are countless ways in which the MOSTAT can be moved, but there are relatively few ways in which it can be moved quickly, and at the exact timing moment when desired. The object, once again, is to achieve the MOSTAT movement as close to instantaneously as is possible, so keep on with your thinking, but concentrate on that factor.

Best 2 U Mark,

Rick

[1NRG24Seven]

Hello Rick....Newbie here in these energy threads, have read this whole thread from the begining and find magnetic motors to be a very interesting challenge. It seems on one hand to be simple, yet like you have stated the forces in opposition to the device working can only be understood by the one that has his magnetic device before him. Or has like in this example built your magnetic motor system to the stage its at. Then you can spin it and see how these forces are interacting with each other in order to overcome them at certain points to get the rotor to spin. You could do it by holding a magnet and moving it at certain intervals and it seems to spin. Seems to me your very close to making this device a reality. How much torque it will end up having will only be known once you get this final stage done. I am looking forward to seeing it as a working device, as I believe you will succeed here. Yet this last stage I believe is your greatest challenge and even tho it may take many variations or experiments, eventually you will find the right configuration that will work. Never give up, good things come to those who press on. Good work Rick

[rickoff]

Hi 1NRG, and welcome to our thread. Thanks for your kind words and observations. I commend you for taking the time to read through the entire thread. That must have taken you quite some time, as a lot is covered here. Yes, the experimentation has given me enough insight so that I know exactly what is needed now to make this work, so the major part of the battle is now over. I wouldn't call this current phase the "final stage," though, other than that it will be the final enhancement required to attain continuous rotation. Once that is accomplished, further enhancements (such as two additional off-sync MOSTAT's, and striving for even faster MOSTAT pole changes) will be the next stages of development. Don't worry, I will never give up on this.

Best wishes,

Rick

[rickoff]

Hi folks,

I have several photos taken during the current modification phase, and am working on labeling and adding text explanations to them. I played
around with several ideas for the pivoting stator mount, and decided on the one shown below. I had originally thought of designing it to more
closely resemble the one shown in my MOSTAT animation still view, in post 324. I finally chose what you see here, and for good reasons. First
of all, the stator magnet will alternately be attracted towards and then repelled from the rotor magnets, and the stator holder would of course
be slightly flexing as these changes occur. If I made the holder somewhat pie slice shaped, as in the MOSTAT animation, the section between
the magnet and the pivot rod would decrease in width and therefore lose strength at the point nearest the pivot rod. Leaving the mount wide
throughout avoids this, and making the mount longer than actually needed allows me to move either the pivot point or the magnet if I decide
that is necessary. What you see below is just one of many designs that I made on paper first, and this could just as easily be drawn directly
upon the protective paper covering of the clear polycarbonate sheet the holder is cut from. While I traced the outline of the hard drive magnet
on the template, just to better visualize the overall layout, there is really no need to do that.





Next, I used the template to draw an outline, and mark the drilling holes, on the polycarbonate sheet. The sheet was then cut along the outline,
and drilled as marked for the magnet mounting and pivot rod bores. The assembled pivoting stator holder is shown below. Nothing fancy - just
simple and functional. A different material could have been used for the stator holder, and I only chose to use the clear polycarbonate because
of the visibility aspect when taking photos and video shots. The clear material will allow unrestricted viewing of the magnet movement, and its
relation to the rotor magnets. A 1/4 inch stainless steel carriage bolt will act as the pivot rod, and will be connected to a control arm about 2
inches up from the stator mount, and the control arm will be activated by a link to the slider carriage.




The next photos will show the control arm and pivot rod mounting bar construction, followed by the completed pivoting stator assembly,
which I will try and have ready to display on Sunday.

Best to all,

Rick

[rickoff]

The control arm for the pivoting stator is shown in the photo below. The larger bore will take the pivot rod, a 1/4" x 5" stainless steel carriage
bolt, while the smaller bore will take a 1/8" screw that couples the control arm to an aluminum actuator linkage rod. The opposite end of the
linkage rod will be attached to the slider carriage.

The control arm will face in the opposite direction that the stator mount faces. Since the stator magnet is positioned 2 inches from the pivot
rod center, while the control arm actuator link is fastened 1 inch from the pivot rod center, the carriage will only need to move the actuator rod
5/8 inch to effect a full pole shift of the hard drive magnet. This should be relatively easy to accomplish, and to accomplish very quickly, with
repulsive magnetic interactions at each end of the slider carriage.

[rickoff]

This next photo shows the mounting bar for the stator pivot rod. This is cut from the same stock that was used for the slider rail mounting bar.
When completed, the pivot mount will be fastened to the side of the slider rail mounting bar, in a position which places the pivot rod directly
over the center of the wheel rim.




The completed pivot rod mount is shown below, ready for assembly of the pivoting stator and control arm upon the pivot rod.

[Mark]

Hello Rick

Glad to see some new posts on your build!
I'm not sure if your aware of it or not but your last few posts are larger is size than the rest and makes it harder to read your posts.

Looking forward to reading more about your work, keep up the good work.

Mark

[rickoff]

Hello Rick

Glad to see some new posts on your build!
I'm not sure if your aware of it or not but your last few posts are larger is size than the rest and makes it harder to read your posts.

Looking forward to reading more about your work, keep up the good work.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Did you mean that the photos are larger than others previously shown, or that the text outside the pictures is a larger font? I'm using Verdana 3 for the text outside the photos, and my photos are sized at 4.5" x 6" @ 200 dpi resolution. I've been using that size and resolution for nearly all photos shown so far. Are you ending up with a window that has horizontal scroll bars on it, which necessitates scrolling in order to view the entire window width? If so, try adjusting your monitor resolution upwards. Mine is set at 1440 x 900, and I see the entire width with no problem. I do see that the outside text goes beyond the photo width, so will edit to correct that, and perhaps that will be enough to solve your problem. When I add the photos to the builder's documents I downsize them somewhat so that they fit the page size well. I'll be updating the builder's documents with the stator modifications in just a few days.

Best 2 U,

Rick

[rickoff]

This photo shows the assembled pivoting stator mechanism in its correct upright orientation. As you can see, the hard drive magnet will be
fully viewable during operation, as will also be the case when watching the positioning relationships between the MOSTAT and the rotor
magnet groups. The two inch extension of the MOSTAT, to the side of the pivot rod mounting bar, will allow for unobstructed top-down viewing.
Although not shown in this photo, a 1/4 inch hole is bored 1/2 inch in from each end of the mounting bar for attachment to the slider rail
support bar, using 1/4 inch x 2.5 inch stainless steel cap screws.

[billwarner9997]

Magnet placement.

As you probably know kjmagnets has 3/8" x 3/4" x 1/8" magnets on backorder.
With that in mind , I'm trying to come up with alternatives.

Early in this thread you stated that you chose the size and spacing of the magnets after a few experiments, but you never said what they were so here's the questions:

1 - How did you decide the size?
2 - The spacing?
3 - The number in each group?
4 - Why the hard drive magnet?

In other words what adjustments would be needed to us 1/2" x 1" x 1/4" magnets? And if a second complete set was placed on the other side of the rim (bottom), would the groups be facing both same face towards each other or opposite (north up on top and north down on bottom or north up on top and south down on bottom)?

And could the hard drive magnet be replaced with 1 bar magnet, or 2 bar magnets in a "V" arrangement, or 3 in a "C" shape?

I think the project concepts are really great and the explanations excellent - I'm just impatient to see success! Keep up the good work.

Bill

[rickoff]

This photo shows the pivoting stator assembly bolted to the slider rail mounting bar. The MOSTAT is shown here in a neutral position, as it is
half way between rotor magnet groups, where there is no attraction force (other than the hard drive magnet being somewhat attracted to the
steel bike wheel rim). The bottom surface of the hard drive magnet is positioned to be 3/4 inch above the upper surface of the rotor magnets,
as this is a gap that has worked well for me in previous experiments. The slider carriage is removed for this photo. Note also that I opted to
sandwich the clear polycarbonate stator mount between two stainless steel fender washers for extra stability. These washers are 1.25 inch
diameter with a 1/4 inch center hole.

[rickoff]

As you probably know kjmagnets has 3/8" x 3/4" x 1/8" magnets on backorder.
With that in mind , I'm trying to come up with alternatives.

Early in this thread you stated that you chose the size and spacing of the magnets after a few experiments, but you never said what they were so here's the questions:

1 - How did you decide the size?
2 - The spacing?
3 - The number in each group?
4 - Why the hard drive magnet?

In other words what adjustments would be needed to us 1/2" x 1" x 1/4" magnets? And if a second complete set was placed on the other side of the rim (bottom), would the groups be facing both same face towards each other or opposite (north up on top and north down on bottom or north up on top and south down on bottom)?

And could the hard drive magnet be replaced with 1 bar magnet, or 2 bar magnets in a "V" arrangement, or 3 in a "C" shape?

I think the project concepts are really great and the explanations excellent - I'm just impatient to see success! Keep up the good work.

Bill

Hi Bill, and thanks for your interest in the Pipe Dream project and prototype. I am glad that you asked these questions, as others may also be wondering the same things, and here are the answers:

1. I experimented with assorted bar magnet sizes, and also with disc magnets. Both worked fairly well, but the bar magnets worked better than the disks. Since the rim on my bike wheel was 1/2 inch wide, I knew that I had better stick pretty close to that measurement for length. I had tested some 1/2 inch x 1/4 inch bar magnets, as well as some 3/4 inch x 3/8 magnets, and this larger size performed better, just as you might expect. I felt that the slight overhang on the rim could be split so that just 1/8 inch would overhang the rim at both the outside and inside perimeters, and K&J was having a special sale on the 3/4 x 3/8 magnets, so those were the deciding factors. I also found that double-stacking my rotor magnets considerably increased performance, and so all of my rotor magnets are now double stacked to give an effective 1/4 inch thickness.
2. The spacing between the rotor magnets (now 5/8 inch at the outer perimeter) was something that I spent a great many hours playing with. My qualifying factors in this aspect were finding a spacing that provided good torque and sustained movement. I tried narrow spacing, medium spacing, wide spacing, and incremental spacing. Using a steel bike wheel for this experimentation made adjustments to spacings a breeze. In one of my incremental spacings, I started with a 1/4 inch gap between the first and second magnet, then increased the gap between each successive magnet by 1/8 inch, until I reached a 3/4 inch gap, and then continued with a repeat sequence over and over until the entire wheel was laid out. This was my test of Howard Johnson's staggered layout, and it did work to give me one full revolution before stopping. While that was encouraging, the action was very slow and wavering, rather than steady. Also, the greatest power was at the start, and then continually diminished as the rotation progressed. This reduction is found in any continuous layout, and that is why I finally decided to use a number of groups rather than a continuous layout.
3. Each group has ten double-stacked magnets, and the wide space between each group is in equal proportions. From the start of one group to the start of the next is a 90 degree arc. The greatest accelerative torque is gained either in repulsion at the tail end of a rotor magnet group, or in attraction at the lead magnet of a group. Once a group is engaged by the stator, the effect continues but diminishes to zero around the middle of the group. The last five magnets of a group do not provide any thrust, but neither do they provide any resistance to the rotation as would be seen in a longer grouping of 15 to 20 or more magnets.
4. I wanted a neodymium magnet with an arch shape, and the hard drive magnet was the best that I could find at a reasonable price. I bought a few of these on Ebay at a dollar apiece. They are super strong, and the transition from north to south pole requires relatively small movement, making it an ideal choice for this setup. Also, it comes on a steel backing plate that makes mounting the magnet a snap, and the backing plate acts to shield everything above the plate, as well as to focus greater magnetism below it. These magnets come paired in a holder, and must be separated, and this must be done with extreme caution. The best way is to slip a wooden slat between the pair before undoing the holder fastenings, and then slide the magnets away from each other several inches. Don't ever let the two come together, especially if your fingers are caught between them! You can pick up a 20 pound barbell by placing your hand palm down on it and then placing a hard drive magnet on the back of your hand, so that will give you an idea of the magnet's power.

I hope that helps to answer your questions satisfactorily. Are you planning a replication?


Best regards,

Rick

[rickoff]

This photo shows the MOSTAT engaged with a South facing up rotor magnet group. The MOSTAT is always in attraction mode when engaged with
a rotor magnet group, and thus is self positioning at the angle of greatest attraction force. Naturally, when the last magnet of the rotor group
passes by the MOSTAT, the MOSTAT will remain in attraction to that last magnet, attempting to reverse the rotation of the rotor. That is
precisely why the MOSTAT must be quickly pivoted at that point to effect a pole change that will place the MOSTAT in repulsion to the last
magnet of the rotor group, providing an accelerative boost. After moving to the repulsive position, the MOSTAT will remain in the proper position
for attraction to the next oncoming rotor magnet group, which will be a North facing up group. With alternating S-N-S-N rotor magnet groups, this
means that the MOSTAT need only be moved at the tail end of each group, or 4 times per revolution.