"RICK'S PIPE DREAM" Magnetic Motor-Generator

[rickoff]

Reply to Mart, plus ideas on possible rear wheel usage:

Rick

As I looked at your setup I kept thinking, this could double as a Bedini SSG energizer as well. One could hotmelt glue the ceramic magnets on...

I guess the simplest would to be to have multiple wheels one for a Bedini setup and one for a Mylow setup...


Your are laying some great ground work that could be used in multiple ways..

Great job!

Thanks for your input, Mart. Glad to see you in here. Yes, as I pointed out in post #1, this setup can be used either horizontally or vertically, and is perfect for multiple uses, which includes SSG builds. Like you say, one could prepare two or more wheels for different uses by premounting them on plates, sliding them into position in the frame, and bolting them up. Of course each wheel has two sides, which already allows for two different uses. The framework allows for standing it in 5 different orientations, if desired. If used as an SSG stand, the SSG coil (or multiple coils) can be mounted easily to the framework in such a way as to make them easily and precisely adjustable. There are any number of ways that can be accomplished, and one such way would be to mount them on a device similar to what I will be using for the stator arm in this project. Actually, once this magnetic motor is up and running, I will be attaching some Bedini type coils to the frame to turn this motor into a generator. I don't expect to be able to run the magnetic motor at a high rpm, but consider this: If I can accellerate the motor to just one revolution per second, and if I have about 60 small neodymium magnets placed around the rim, then I will get 60 cycles per second through each of the coils. Similarly, if the motor runs at 80 rpm (1+1/3 revs per second) then 45 magnets would offer 60 cycles per second. With your extensive SSG experience, I'm sure you can see the possibilities, and I'd love to hear your thoughts as to coil size and circuitry to maximize the potential output. It seems, of course, that the generating coil or coils should be air coils so as not to adversely affect operation of the motor. What are your thoughts concerning the coils?

Thoughts on using rear wheels:
Some might suggest that a bicycle's rear wheel, with sprocket, be used instead to drive a chain that would then drive a small generator, but there are several drawbacks to that mode of operation. First of all, that type of drive mechanism would create substantial drag. Secondly, you would need substantial rpm of perhaps 2,000 at the generator, which would not be possible from a magnetic motor running at only 60 rpm. That would require a 1:30 motor:generator gear ratio, and it is doubtful that the motor could even handle the stress of a 1:1 ratio. That said, there are two advantages to be had from using a rear wheel:
1. A rear wheel has a larger diameter axle (which is stronger and longer than a front wheel axle) and larger diameter ball bearings. This equates to a stronger and more stable build. This would require drilling the mounting plate axle support holes larger, of course. To accommodate the added axle length, one or both plates could be moved to the outside of the frame's plate support members, as necessary.
2. If the sprocket is held in a fixed position, rather than being allowed to freewheel, then the ratcheting action built in to the sprocket assembly will only allow the wheel to spin in one direction, and this is quite desirable when swinging the stator arm into position to interact with the rotor magnets and begin rotation. Actually, the only reason I did not choose to mount the rear wheel of my salvaged junk bicycle is because it was way rustier than the front wheel. I may work on cleaning that up when I have time, though, and then mount it.

I will be posting construction info later today concerning frame alignment and stabilization, and leveling mechanisms, so watch for this.

Best regards,

Rick

[rickoff]

Construction Step #4 - Aligning and tightening frame members



Find yourself a 1" x 5" X 3ft long board that is straight as an arrow and cut off squarely at the ends. Sight down the long edge, when selecting the board, to check for straightness. Lay the long edge on a level surface such as a tabletop or workbench, or place it upon a 4 ft long carpenter's level to ensure it is not warped. Check it with a carpenter's square to make certain the ends are squared. If the ends need squaring and you don't have a table saw, radial arm saw, or a wide enough miter box and saw to square the ends, go to your local building supply and purchase the board, and have them true the ends for you. Most places won't even charge for doing that. Once you have your board in hand, lay it on top of the frame as shown in the photo above, so that is spans both ends. If each of the elbows and tees on the upper front rail is touching the bottom edge of the board, the rail is well aligned and ready for the tees and elbows to be drilled. If the center portion of the rail is sagging, first make sure the frame ends are tapped down to seat the pipes in their connectors. If the center is still sagging, use a hammer to tap the central tees up just enough so they are flush against the board edge. If the rail is bowed up at the center, and the two short pipes dropping down from the tees are fully seated in the tees and in the elbows beneath them, then tap the end tees of the rail up just enough to straighten the rail against the board edge. Once the upper front rail is well aligned, drill into each of the four tees of that rail in the manner shown in the Step 4C photo (2nd below) and drive in the screws.

I used a 3/32" drill bit and #4 X 1/2" Phillips head sheet metal screws. I would have preferred using square drive head screws rather than the Phillips, but couldn't locate them locally and I was in a hurry. Square drive head screws can be driven in nicely with a driver tip inserted in an electric drill, while small Phillips head screws do not tend to drive well with a driver tip drill attachment, as the driver tip tends to lose traction in the screw head because of the taper design, and then damages the head and wastes the screw. If you want to use a Phillips driver tip in your drill, I suggest using #6 x 1/2" sheet metal screws, as the larger size will drive better. If you go with the #6 screws, use a #32 pilot drill size. The #4 screws are better driven in by hand using a well fitting Phillips screwdriver, but if you go that route then wear a glove on your driving hand, and don't try to drive all of the screws in one day. You can get the square drive head #6 screws by the hundred at McMaster-Carr for $2.83 a pack McMaster-Carr the #1 driver bit for your drill is 50 cents McMaster-Carr and a #32 drill is $1.12 McMaster-Carr I'll definitely go with these square drive head screws for a repeat build, as they will make the job easier.

After you align, drill, and drive screws into the upper front rail, move your board to the upper back rail and repeat the above procedure. After finishing the back rail, move your board to the left end of the frame and place the board end flat against the floor with the long edge against the tees as shown in the photo below.

The board edge should touch both tees. If not, move the frame enough to align it. Once aligned, drill the upper left front elbow and drive screws into it. Do the same operation at the back corner of the left side, then at the back corner of the right side. Do not drill and fasten the elbows of the right front, as this section needs to be easily removed to assemble the stator arm upon it. Your screw drivings should look something like the ones in the Step #4C photo below.


With the above work completed, turn the stand upside down and repeat these procedures, keeping in mind that the stator arm will be mounted later on the section which is now at the right rear side of the stand, and you dont want to drill or fasten that section.

Each screw that is driven in helps to strengthen and hold the alignment of the framework. Keep going until all the tees and elbows are fastened, except for the stator mounting section. When done, leave the frame in its upside down position for step #5, the installation of the leveling apparatus, which follows in the next post.

Best to all,

Rickoff

[rickoff]

Construction Step #5 - Installing the leveling apparatus

The first picture shows the parts and tools used in making up and installing the levelers.

The screws are 1/4"-20 x 2+1/2" carriage bolts. I would actually have preferred using 2+3/4" carriage bolts, but couldn't find that length locally with a continuous thread the full length. McMaster-Carr does have it, but only in a quantity of 100, so I opted for the local 2+1/2" bolts. The rubber items are protective chair leg tips having a 5/8" diameter opening which is 5/8" deep. The washers are 1/4" flat washers, and I just realized that only four are actually required for this set of levelers. I bought 8 washers because I am installing a second set of levelers for a vertical orientation of the frame. The four items above the washers are 3/8" long pieces of 1/2" inside diameter PVC pipe, which has a 5/8" outside diameter, and because of that they can be inserted down into the bottom of the rubber tip bores. The head of the carriage bolt will be placed on top of the PVC piece, and the hot glue gun, shown at upper right of the photo, will be used to fill the remaining rubber tip bore. The idea of the PVC piece is to raise the bolt up 3/8" in the bore so that less glue is needed. After the glue is applied, a washer is slipped on and pushed down to the rubber tip, and then two 1/4" -20 nuts are threaded down to the washer. The first nut should just contact the washer, and not be forced down as it could pop the rubber tip off the carriage bolt head. The second nut is used to bind and lock the two nuts together. A 13/64" drill bit is used to drill the frame, and the 1/4" - 20 tap and tap handle shown at top left of the above photo is used to tap the drilled hole with threads that will match the carriage bolt. The actual steps are shown below.


From left to right, the PVC piece is inserted, the bolt head is placed above the PVC piece, the hot glue is inserted until flush with the top of the rubber foot, and the washer and nuts are placed and locked, ready for installation. Don't touch hot glue in its melted state, as it will definitely burn your fingers. Any spils or excess glue can be picked off or trimmed away with a knife after waiting 30 seconds or so for it to set. Hold the bolt straight up while the hot glue is inserted, and until it sets.

When drilling, as shown below, remember that you want the levelers installed in what will be the bottom of the frame. The frame is symmetrical, of course, so it may not matter to you which is top and which is bottom, unless one side of your wheel is in better condition like mine is, and then you will want that side at the top. Be sure that you drill all the way through and out the other side of the tees, and that you have the drill aimed straight down.



Next, you are ready to tap the threads into the drilled holes.


Lastly, the leveler bolts are inserted and are turned down until the nuts are against the tee surface. Always use a wrench for this purpose, and for adjustment of the levelers. Never turn the rubber feet, as they will come loose from the carriage bolts. You will find that tapping the holes from opposite sides creates a binding effect that eliminates the need for an adjustment locknut.


In the actual leveling process, remember that you are leveling the wheel - not the frame. To do this accurately, first make certain that there is no perceptible wheel wobble. This should have been eliminated when you mounted the wheel, but check it again before leveling. If all is well, place a carpenters bubble level across the wheel rim at the front of the stand. Be sure the level only rests on two contact points of the rim, and not on any spokes. begin adjusting the front levelers at whichever end of the level is lower, until the bubble reads level. Then place the level in a front to rear orientation and adjust the levelers as needed. Keep checking in both directions until you have it right. If all four rubber feet are down onto the floor and the wheel is level, you have succeeded. I found that my 18 inch long aluminum bubble level could be placed on the rim at the front of the stand, and then the wheel rotated to the front-to-rear orientation, which makes the job easier by allowing you to simply rotate the wheel back and forth betwen the two positions until you achieve best leveling. The aluminum level can also be placed on top of the magnets for re-leveling later, if you move the apparatus to a different room.

Tomorrow I will show at least part of the stator arm construction method, so watch for that. In the meantime, if you are following along, you will at least catch up with your frame alignment and leveling.

Until later, best to all,

Rick

[rickoff]

Quick Update

Hi folks,

I'm working on the Construction Step #6 post, and will have that up in an hour or so, showing a portion of the stator arm build. I had hoped to have that up earlier today, but was too zonked out. I started in on some preliminary testing last night with the new magnets, and tried out several different configuration layouts. I became so enthralled with this, that I ended up staying up all night playing with it. Things kept getting better and better, and it was very encouraging. By morning, I had succeeded in going from a dead stop to one full revolution. I learned a lot in just one night, but then felt burned out the following morning and had to try and catch up on some sleep. I'll be making a video to show what I have learned, but I'd like to get the stator arm details posted first so that builders can catch up on this project. One must keep in mind that this is the first build - the prototype. I am certain that there are improvements and enhancements that I will make to the build as I see reason or necessity to employ them, and those will also be made available. It's a learning process, and a R&D process as well. A nice feature about this build is that any section of it can be disassembled and modified, or added to, with relative ease. If you start thinking about it, I am sure that some of you will begin to see ways that you can improve or modify the structure to suit the particular type of experiments that you wish to use it for. Once I finish posting all the prototype build steps, we can exchange ideas for possible enhancements, and of course that's what open-source development is all about. More on that later - for now I'll get back to posting on the stator arm construction techniques.

Best regards,

Rick

[rickoff]

Construction Step #6 - Stator Arm phase one

Hi folks,

Here is the fist phase of construction concerning the stator arm apparatus. The stator arm is an integral part of the framework, and needs to be fully adjustable for height and angles above the rotor magnets. In this first phase of construction, I show how to make an adjustment height stop collar. The stop collar is installed on the right front frame end upright (vertical) pipe, and the stator arm assembly will reside above the stop collar. The purpose of the stop collar is to set a minimum height adjustment for the stator arm, which will allow the stator arm to be swung over or away from the magnets without worry of altering the height or contacting and damaging the magnets. Neo magnets are very strong, and although they will cling quite well to the steel bike wheel rotor, they will jump off the wheel rim and smash into the stator magnet if the stator magnet is brought too close to them. This usually results in the affected rotor magnets breaking into pieces, so use of a stop collar helps prevent such mishaps. The stop collar, and most of the other PVC used for the stator arm, is made from 1+1/4" PVC pipe and fittings.




As you can see in the above photo, the collar becomes a double thickness when the PVC pipe pieces are added. We will
be drilling and threading the collar in the next two steps, and the double thickness will offer good thread depth for the
intended purpose of using adjsustment thumb screws.






Note: The thumb screws shown above are steel. I would prefer to use stainless steel or brass ones in the stator
arm parts, as they are non magnetic, but there were none available locally. Both can be found at McMaster-Carr,
however. McMaster-Carr You will need 6 total for the stator arm, and will
also need ten 1/4-20 x 1/2" nylon pan head screws. You may have luck finding those locally, but if not then they
can also be found at McMaster-Carr. McMaster-Carr ($6.50 per 100 pack)
Later I will figure all of the necessary hardware parts, and will make up the needed hardware packages for this
project. That way you can buy exactly what is needed with no hassle, and just pay the actual cost of the material
and shipping. I will also start preparing some ready-to assemble kits for those who who don't have the time or
tools needed to prepare their own. Assembly will require only a screwdriver and a couple of open end wrenches,
if you opt for the kits. If interested in acquiring a full kit, or just a hardware pack, please e-mail me at
rickandlezel@hotmail.com with "Pipe Dream parts request" in the subject line.



That's it for now, folks. I'm off to bed and will post phase two of the stator arm construction later today.

Best regards to all,

Rick

[theremart]

Great work Rick..

John Bedini is now showing up on the Yahoo Mylow board, he has given me permission to post two videos that he thinks are helpful on youtube.


YouTube - Magnet motor PCockriel - File from John Bedini shared with the Yahoo Mylow group

YouTube - Magnet motor PCockriel


After seeing Energy from the Vacuum II I believe this is old hat for John. I noticed that John's wheel was made out of wood.

A very interesting comment that John made about these... ->

> Mart,
> You have my permission to do what ever you want, This is your group.
> As I said I have no quest in building any more of this type motor as I have a patent already that depicts the magnet motor I'm working on. If you took out the electromagnetic coils on each side you would see the PMM. I have worked on what was termed the Buck Boost design.
>
> Radus never released the motor but Tom Bearden and I figured it out and I built a motor out of it. This is why I said to everybody pay close attention to the way Mylow built his motor, there are three motors that were very successful, Mylow with the HJ, Bowman, Dixon( the FED's own this one, runs a 10kw generator using neo magnets 5000Rpm's, that's power)
>
> Radus was silenced with the motor because he was to close to showing people how to switch magnets with the boots, but Sterling has some of it on his pages, I have the Radus work from Westinghouse and I understood what memory was in the magnet so it was easy to make a PMM out of the boots. From all this work I also discovered what really happens when a magnet approaches iron. Pcockriel shows
> using one magnet the copper bar the copper ball with a steel ball how the eddy currents can drive the ball.
> Have a good day and may everybody have full success
> John

Very interesting info.

[rickoff]

Interesting, Mart. Thanks for the links, and the notes from JB. I always listen with interest when John has something to say.

Rick

[rickoff]

Reply to Stealth:

Interesting what John says about the Bowman motor. I have one I built about 5 years ago. I never could get it to self run, but it showed me some things that I might not have discovered otherwise. I have taken all the magnets off it, but I still have the motor. I need to ressurect it and now that I have a new understanding of it, need to get it going, once and for all. It does have more power potential than any other magnetic motor I have built so far. Good Luck. Stealth

Thanks for the good luck wishes, Stealth. By all means go for it with your Bowman build, and good luck to you too.

Rick

[theremart]

RE: The Bowman motor

Interesting what John says about the Bowman motor. I have one I built about 5 years ago. I never could get it to self run, but it showed me some things that I might not have discovered otherwise. I have taken all the magnets off it, but I still have the motor. I need to ressurect it and now that I have a new understanding of it, need to get it going, once and for all. It does have more power potential than any other magnetic motor I have built so far. Good Luck. Stealth

Hi, so you are familiar with Bowman's Motor, I would love to know more about this, may I ask where did you learn of it, and what encouraged you to build one?

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Mart

[rickoff]

Update, magnet information, and experiments

Hi folks, just a quick update. I'm currently working on getting phase two of the stator arm construction posted, and it should be up in an hour or so. First, though, I thought I should update you on the experiments I have been doing. Before ordering the current set of magnets that I am experimenting with (K&J Magnetics part #BC62) K&J Magnetics - Products I had done some tests with K&J's BX062 bar magnets, and their R622 disc magnets. The disc magnets have a hole through the middle, which I thought would be very handy when it came to permanently mounting the magnets. I had success with both of these magnets during the last week in April, although the bar magnets did provide better rotational thrust, so that's why I stuck with bars for my more recent order. I had only ordered 10 of the BX062 block magnets, and had positioned them in various groupings and spacings. A 5/8" space seemed to work best for me. The magnets are 3/8" wide, so one magnet + 1 space = 1", and 2 magnets + 2 spaces = 2". My stator magnet is a powerful neodymium computer hard drive magnet having north and south poles at opposite ends. I have no doubt that this magnet would be capable of lifting a 50 pound barbell, but I don't like to attach it to anything because it is so difficult to separate it afterwards. Also, the attraction is so strong when near metal or another magnet that you reach a point of no return where it suddenly slams into the other object with great force, and there's no holding it back. If your fingers are in between the two, there is no doubt that you will be feeling a lot of pain, so whenever handling a powerful magnet such as this, please be very careful. Also, always wear goggles or safety glasses when experimenting with magnet interactions. If you adjust your stator magnet too close to the rotor magnets then it will offer such great attraction force as to lift the rotor magnets away from the steel wheel rim, and they will fly up and slam against the stator magnet. This will usually result in a broken rotor bar magnet. I have found that about the closest that I can distance the stator from the rotor magnets without that happening is about 1". The stator magnet is curved (11/16" radius inside curve), is 1+3/4" in straight line overall length, 1+1/8" wide, and is 1/4" thick. It came mounted on a 1/4" thick steel plate, which I utilized for mounting the stator magnet to the stator arm assembly. When I bought this hard drive magnet for $1 on eBay, it came assembled as a pair, so after separating them and needing only 1, I now have a spare one handy.

Anyways, in my early experiments with the first set of bar magnets (BX062's) I only had ten, so tried placing them all in one group. I could lower the stator magnet at any place within the group, and I would get rotation. It worked quite nicely, and with good force. As the last magnet in the group passed by the stator, there was a short burst of accelleration from the unopposed repulsion, which also looked promising. I also tried separating them into two groups of 5 with a wide space between of about 2". Same result as before, but when the 2nd group approached the stator magnet there was a strong repulsive force encountered which was like applying a brake, and rotation stopped, then rocked back and forth between the two groups several times. So continuous 5/8" spacings definitely worked better. Next I tried the R622 disc magnets. I had 25 of these, so lined all of them up with 5/8" spacings. I lowered the stator magnet over them and was surprised to see that nothing happened. I tried sever other groupings and spacings with them, and still nothing. I was about ready to give up with them, but then decided to try stacking them two discs high. These, and the bar magnets are all 1/8" thick, so that gave me 1/4" height. I tried the stator magnet again, and this time it worked very nicely - not as much thrust as with the bar magnets, but still good. As with the bar magnets, I could lower the stator anywhere within the group and rotation would commence. I also saw the same accelleration effect as the last magnet in the group passed the stator. And if I separated the magnets into two groups I saw the same repulsive braking effect as the second group approached the stator. So it seemed that I might possibly be able to achieve continuous rotation if I had enough magnets to go all the way around the wheel in a 5/8" spacing. I also tried stacking 3 of the disc magnets together in a group of 7 stacks, and the propulsion was still better, but not quite as good as a single bar magnet. Stacking two bars together in a 5 stack group showed that they also had better propulsion configured that way. The first bar magnets were 1" in length, and they overlapped the steel wheel rim about 1/4" at either end. Therefore, when ordering the new set I opted for a 3/4" length BC62. The 1" magnets had the tendency to be lifted away from the rim by the stator magnet much more easily than the newer 3/4" ones, which only overlap about 1/8" per end. The magnets are easy to slide around and arrange, and rearrange, on the chrome plated steel wheel, and don't need any kind of gluing for the experiments, which is nice. As soon as the BC62's arrived, on May 4th, I assembled the all the way around the wheel (70 stacks of two magnets) spaced 5/8" apart, and gave it a try. What I found out right away was that this wouldn't work. In a long string of magnets, (any more than 25 or so) there is a cumulative resistive factor that slows the rotational speed, and of course that is definitely not wanted. So I took out every ninth and tenth stack, leaving 8 equal groups of 8 stacks each, with a 2+5/8" intervening space between each group. This worked quite nicely in getting through one group and then accellerating, but then the braking effect coming into play as the next group approached the stator, just as in my earlier experiments. I tried various intervening space arrangements by leaving 7 , 6, and 5 stacks per group, but always with the same braking effect. As a matter of fact, the braking effect became more pronounced with a wider intervening space. The starting propulsive effect was also stronger with wider intervening spaces. So it seemed that if I could just get past that short interval between the braking point and the forward thrust engagement point, then the problem would be solved. Since my main purpose in building this test apparatus was to test my moving stator theories (see my MOVING STATOR thread at http://www.energeticforum.com/48790-post1.html ), I figured why not try holding the stator in my hand and see if moving it farther away just before encountering the braking effect would work. It seemed logical to me that it would work, and in fact it did. I would position the stator magnet just close enough to the start of a rotor group to begin rotation, allow the group to pass by and accellerate, and then immediately move the stator magnet about 1" farther away. This worked beautifully to get me past the usual brick wall braking point, without slowing rotation at all. Then I would move the stator magnet 1" closer again when it was over the next rotor magnet group. This had the effect of speeding up accelleration, which would again speed up as the last magnet of each group passed by the stator. After just a few revolutions, I was already spinning the rotor quite rapidly, and still gaining speed! At the slower speeds, it was easy enough to see the points at every group where I needed to move the stator, but as things speeded up and became a blur I was simply guessing how to keep moving the magnet and not knowing if I had it right. Still, even with that handicap I was able to keep the wheel spinning rapidly - I would guess at perhaps 200 to 300 rpm or so. I have no doubt whatsoever that I could get the wheel spinning much faster if I employ a track device of the kind that I mentioned in my Moving Stator thread, in order to achieve perfect timing of the stator movements. I feel confident that there is enough force in the rotating wheel (especially if I add some flywheel effect as heft) to sustain movement of the stator. It does take more movement in order to get the rotation started, but once going along nicely, only 1" or less of movement is needed at a height where it is very easy to move the magnet. I was ever so pleased to see this idea work out so nicely, and it obviously seems to be the direction to pursue now.

That said, I decided to try the Howard Johnson method of aligning and spacing the magnets as shown in his patent drawing. I have an illustration that I prepared, based upon the patent drawing, which shows all the dimensions of his setup, and I will show that below.



What you will notice is that he used a progressively smaller spacing between each 6 magnet group, reducing each space by 1/16" and then start over again with the next group. I tried several different similar configurations, and finally hit upon one that actually did work. I spaced my bar magnets in groups comprised of 3/4", 5/8", and 1/2" (four stacks) and then would start over with 3/4" as the next space. No wide intervening spaces were used. When I adjusted the stator arm over the starting position, I was able to go from a dead stop to one full rotation, returning to the starting point before the braking effect took over. It was encouraging to see that, but the rotation was slow and a bit jerky. It proved to me that HJ's concept works, at least to a point anyways, but it was nothing like the thrill of seeing how well the moving stator effect worked. While my experiments cannot prove or disprove Mylow's results, they do show that rotational movement is achievable, so I have to say that his device is perhaps capable of doing exactly what he is showing us. He is using far weaker ceramic magnets, and placing his stator at a height where interaction with the rotor magnets is just beginning. That's why his rotation starts off so slow. That is also why the braking effect is minimized in his setup. If he were to move the stator closer, the braking effect would slow, then stop rotation. Still, with such weak interaction he is only able to sustain a top speed of about 80 rpm. Thus, while it is fun to watch it go round, it is still more or less a novelty device with very limited applications in its current state. It could be improved somewhat by adding some more flywheel effect, which would allow bringing the stator a bit closer and gaining perhaps another 20 to 40 rpm, but it isn't going to do much better than that unless he employs a moving stator. Speaking of that, I noticed that Stealth pointed out earlier (in the Mylow thread) that he noticed in Mylow's videos that the stator magnet was moving up and down slightly as the magnet groups passed by. I also noticed that in some of his recent videos - in fact it was creating a clicking noise in at least one video, caused by the movement. That was unintentional on his part, but I am sure that it actually helped sustain the rotations. Stealth tried an experiment holding the stator in his hand and saw the same results that I had seen on May 4th, so by that we have confirmed each other's findings. I think he has a different build, and I don't know what he used for magnets or how how he had his magnets configured on the rotor, but it is the same principle that makes it all work - a moving stator.

Well, enough said for now. I'd better get back to work on my stator arm post so I can finish that up and get some sleep.

Best regards,

Rick

[rickoff]

Phase #2 of Stator Arm construction

This step continues the Stator Arm construction that began in step #6.



Try holding the tee firmly in one hand, and attempt to turn the 2+3/8" pipe with the other hand. If you can not turn or rock the pipe sideways, then all is well. If you can turn or rock it, you should lock it in place using #6 X 1/2" sheet metal screws in the same manner as the frame connectors were stabilized in an earlier step.















The idea of the rotating and locking swing arm is to allow the stator arm to be rotated into position above the rotor, and to be swung back out when making certain adjustments or doing work on the frame or rotor. The pictured nylon screws are the correct type, but are longer than the 1/2" length actually needed, as this was all I could find locally. You want to adjust the nylon screws so that they take up all slack and yet allow the tee to rotate and slide up and down on the 1" pipe. When locking the swing arm tee in place with the metal thumbscrews, do not overtighten, as this will damage the 1" pipe and may also strip the threads of the tee. Never tighten down on the nylon screws - leave them properly adjusted, as noted above.



That's it for this session. Next will be a continuation of the stator arm construction showing the up/down angle adjuster.

Best regards to all,

Rick

[cody]

Rick,
Nice setup and great ideas! The behavior that you described above is exactly what i have gotten as well. A few things i would like to comment on: I was using repulsion to, however Mylow recently stated that all of his working designs were working in attraction mode. Also, about his stator that was moving, there is a video of him showing the motor running faster when he secured the stator so it didnt move. I wish i could provide some links to that info for you, but as you know there is a ton of info and videos up now and its hard to sort through them all. Anyways, best of luck to you with your setup.

cody

[tjnlsn255]

Moving Stator magnet thought.....

I was wondering if it would work at all to put the stator magnet on a pendulum and swing it over the the rotating rotor magnets perpendicular to each other.... just a thought......

Have a most excellent day.....

Tj

[rickoff]

Reply to Tj:

I was wondering if it would work at all to put the stator magnet on a pendulum and swing it over the the rotating rotor magnets perpendicular to each other.... just a thought...... Tj

Hi Tj,

Yes, this is one way that a moving stator action can be accomplished, and the ways that it will work and won't work:

If the stator pendulum swings back and forth in the same plane as the rotor magnets are moving in, it will impart forward thrust to the rotor in one direction, but a somewhat anti-rotational force as it swings back in the other direction, thus not assisting accelleration. Also, in this configuration, the height of the stator above the rotor magnets constantly varies, and this isn't the best arrangement for utilizing propulsive forces. What you want is for the stator to move closer to the rotor magnets just after the first magnet of the group is encountered, then remain at that optimal level until after the group passes the stator, at which time the stator should begin lifting higher to avoid the braking effect as the lead-in magnet of the next group approaches. In other words, there is just a very short span of perhaps two inches of rotor travel where you want the stator to move higher, then drop down again to its previous level. This can not be accomplished with a pendulum. A better use of a pendulum is to have it swing back and forth across the wheel rim in a radial plane (aligned in the direction of the wheel spokes). In this arrangement of a moving stator, you use an axially magnetized stator magnet (poles at the ends), and it can be a "C" shape or bar magnet, although the "C" shape is preferable since the curve allows the magnet height above the rotor the remain constant. A common hard drive magnet works well for this. In this instance, the stator magnet (still on its steel mounting plate) is mounted facing the approaching magnet groups, with the lowest point of the curve facing downwards. The pendulum must be timed so that the south end of the stator magnet is facing the approaching rotor group from a distance of about 2 inches, and then begins its swing arc. The rotor magnets are mounted north up in the approaching group, so they are naturally attracted toward s the stator's south end, and rotation begins. As the rotor magnets move, the stator magnet continues its arc slowly, in such a timing so that as the last magnet passes the stator the stator's north pole repels it to continue rotation with no braking effect whatever. Then the stator is ready to begin reversing its arc as the next rotor magnet group approaches. But wait a minute, won't the stator's north pole now repel the lead-in magnet of the approaching group, thus slamming the brakes on? Well, it would if we have north facing poles in the second group, but that's easily avoided by having all south facing poles in the second group. The stator's north pole then attracts and draws in the approaching group, and the effect is the same as with the first group - no anti-rotational forces involved - just accellerative forces. So in this setup, each group of rotor magnets is alternately placed on the wheel with north/south/north/south configuration. This does work, and I have done it to prove it works. I grouped my rotor magnets in sevens, with 5/8" spacings between magnets, and a space of about 3.5" between each group. The spacing between groups can be anything you want, and is only dependent upon matching the timing of the stator swing. Another, and even better method using a pendulous stator arc with this same rotor magnet configuration is to mount the hard drive magnet on the stator swing arm with the broad side of the magnet facing straight down. This side of the magnet imparts the greatest force. With this method, the stator swing arm keeps the stator magnet at a constant height above the rotor, and the swing arm simply swings in an arc across the wheel rim and then back again. Here again, the attraction and repulsion forces are used in the same way, only they are much more powerful than before. I'll try to make a video, to post tomorrow, which will demonstrate this action. I'll be moving the stator swing arm with my hand, but it will show the same results that would occur if the swing arm was linked to a timing track. A timing track is essential for this to work properly, and there is no way that a free moving pendulum can achieve correct timing.

Did that sufficiently answer your question, Tj? I hope so.

Best to you,

Rick

[rickoff]

Reply to Cody:

Rick,
Nice setup and great ideas! The behavior that you described above is exactly what i have gotten as well. A few things i would like to comment on: I was using repulsion to, however Mylow recently stated that all of his working designs were working in attraction mode. Also, about his stator that was moving, there is a video of him showing the motor running faster when he secured the stator so it didnt move. I wish i could provide some links to that info for you, but as you know there is a ton of info and videos up now and its hard to sort through them all. Anyways, best of luck to you with your setup. cody

Hi Cody, and thanks for the kind words. What Mylow stated is not actually correct. His rotor magnets have always been north facing toward the stator. With the horseshoe magnets, with poles at opposite ends, both attraction and repulsion forces came into play. With the current configuration using the curved motor magnets for the stator, the curved side facing the rotor is north, so is in repulsion. The upper curve of the stator magnets (there are 2 of them) is the south pole. Now the reason why Mylows rotor magnets are attracted toward the stator magnet is that the upper curve of the stator magnet, at the magnet end, is ahead of the north curve, so attraction occurs and draws the group nearer. At the moment where the first magnet of the group is directly below the stator magnet end, there is equilibrium - nether attraction nor repulsion, so rotation continues. As the rotor passes this point of equilibrium, the north facing lead-in magnet of the group is repelled by the north underside of the stator tip, thus continuing rotation. Since the stator magnet is curved, the strongest interaction is at the magnet end, or tip, so there is no anti-rotational force encountered until the lead-in magnet approaches the opposite tip of the stator magnet in a repulsive north/north mode. This would tend to stop rotation, but there are four reasons why it doesn't.
1. A rotor magnet is timed to be in rotational attraction mode as it approaches the stator, while at the same moment the lead-in magnet is approaching the anti-rotational repulsive force, which balances the equation of forces.
2. The second stator magnet is offset from the first one by an amount that is strongly pulling in (or repelling along) another rotor magnet. This gives forward rotational thrust at the precise moment when needed to further assist the balance achieved in reason #1.
3. There is a certain degree of "flywheel effect" involved. The rotor has a definite weight to it, and as soon as it begins to rotate it will want to maintain that direction of rotation. There is a moving force involved that can only be stopped if counteracted by excessive repulsion force, which doesn't happen because of reasons #1 and #2. The flywheel effect is the reason why the rotor magnet group is not reattracted to the stator magnet ofter passing by. The outside south curve of the stator magnet should reattract the north rotor magnet faces, but the flywheel effect is strong enough to overcome this tendency, allowing the rotor group to move away from the attraction force, and the next group to be drawn in closer.
4. Mylow has his stator magnets set at a height where interaction between them and the rotor magnets is relatively weak - just enough to cause rotation to begin. Rotation starts out very slowly, and gradually increases to about 80 rpm. If Mylow were to place the Stator magnets closer to the rotor magnets, the rotor magnet group would, in fact, be drawn back towards the stator after passing by it, or at least would cause a slowing of rotation at that point if the attraction force is overcome.

I hope this gives you better insight as to what is actually happening in Mylow's build, and the forces that are involved.

Best regards,

Rick