"RICK'S PIPE DREAM" Magnetic Motor-Generator

[Mark]

Rick

I didn't make myself very clear. What I meant was just placing the rotor magnets on the inside and the outside of the 3 inch wide lip of the wheel, not actually moving them back and forth. All the magnets would be stationary and instead of moving the stator magnet in and out an inch the rotor magnets would be alighned that way. For example in the first set of 10 magnets the first 9 would be toward the inside of the rim and the last one would be mounted near the outside. The next set of magnets would all be mounted on the outside edge of the rim except the last one which would be mount toward the inside and so on.

Mark

[Cloxxki]

While Mark's idea seems like it would work for the same reasons, with a much less complicated build...it does bring to mind designs that came before it, trying to work off a similar idea. Magnets arranged to form long V-shapes, positioned under rail track type setups. Which only partially worked.
This line of thinking takes away some of my hope that Rick's idea will work. Perhaps his singular stator is then the factor that makes it work better than a track and cart all loaded with magnets. I hope so. When it works, more stators can be added.
If the rotor magnet groups offer a threshold for the stator to move over one direction, and like a downhill slope the other, having smartly positioned opposing stators might cancel out some of the resistance to be overcome, while reducing relative tracking friction.
I like Rick's plan for a lightweight stator arm, but have reservations regarding the need for that. If his setup proves to be valid as PMM, I bet it can handle a bit of stator weight to be moved around. Lighter will help, but should not be necessary. I think the same of the flywheel, BTW. It will make things easier, but when the design works, it should be able to produce useful torque even with a weightless assembly.

[rickoff]

Reply to Mark:

Rick

I didn't make myself very clear. What I meant was just placing the rotor magnets on the inside and the outside of the 3 inch wide lip of the wheel, not actually moving them back and forth. All the magnets would be stationary and instead of moving the stator magnet in and out an inch the rotor magnets would be alighned that way. For example in the first set of 10 magnets the first 9 would be toward the inside of the rim and the last one would be mounted near the outside. The next set of magnets would all be mounted on the outside edge of the rim except the last one which would be mount toward the inside and so on.

Mark

Okay, I believe that I see what you mean now. That would be okay if you have three inches at the side of the rim to play with. My rim only has a 1/2" flat area on the sides for magnet placement. I'd say go ahead with your idea if it is feasible for you.

Best regards,

Rick

[rickoff]

Reply to Cloxxki:

While Mark's idea seems like it would work for the same reasons, with a much less complicated build...it does bring to mind designs that came before it, trying to work off a similar idea. Magnets arranged to form long V-shapes, positioned under rail track type setups. Which only partially worked.
This line of thinking takes away some of my hope that Rick's idea will work. Perhaps his singular stator is then the factor that makes it work better than a track and cart all loaded with magnets. I hope so. When it works, more stators can be added.
If the rotor magnet groups offer a threshold for the stator to move over one direction, and like a downhill slope the other, having smartly positioned opposing stators might cancel out some of the resistance to be overcome, while reducing relative tracking friction.
I like Rick's plan for a lightweight stator arm, but have reservations regarding the need for that. If his setup proves to be valid as PMM, I bet it can handle a bit of stator weight to be moved around. Lighter will help, but should not be necessary. I think the same of the flywheel, BTW. It will make things easier, but when the design works, it should be able to produce useful torque even with a weightless assembly.

Hi Cloxxki,

To ensure success, I feel that we really do need to employ every tool at our disposal in order to overcome the limitations that have caused others who have gone before us to fail. In this regard, the entire stator movement mechanism should be made as lightweight as possible, and the wheel should have as much heft as possible without causing undue strain on the bearings. A steel bike wheel already has substantial heft in the right location for good flywheel effect, and the birch flywheel simply augments that effect. Keep in mind that accelleration only occurs at eight brief periods during a complete wheel revolution, while the majority of the revolution is comprised of coasting during equilibrium periods (throughout the centers of each magnet group, and while passing along the intervening wide spaces between magnet groups). During these periods, the inertial momentum of the flywheel helps maintain a relatively constant speed, while a lightweight wheel would tend to slow down. It can only help to ensure success.

Best 2 U,

Rick

[Cloxxki]

@Rick
Thanks for the elaboration. We are in agreement for the most part.
For the sake of the topic I won't pose my slight objections, but just echo the great possibilities the wooded surface may offer for additional systems, or other setups.

What about a second stator arm, working out of fase, say 1/8th or 3/8th of a rotation, to smoothen the input as well as doubling it?

[rickoff]

Certainly we can add more stators, and I never had it in mind to limit the build to just one, but I think you will agree that we first have to "fine tune" a single stator for best possible results. After that, others can be added. Placement should be well thought out to afford an increased number of accelleration points, so that while one stator is in coasting mode, another one is always in accelleration mode, thus constantly providing increased momentum and higher velocities.

Yes, the wood surface opens up a whole new avenue of possibilities. The 4" wide ring can be used to experiment with additional magnet layouts that simply aren't possible on a narrow bike wheel rim. It can also serve as a firm base for the monorail track. If additional weights seem desirable, they can easily be attached. And the wood surface can serve to enable other unrelated experiments, such as a mechanical engine. When you start to thinking about it, the potential uses are great in number.

[Mark]

I also like the idea of second stator arm but my thoughts are to set up both arms so one is at the end of the magnets at the push point and the other is at the beginning of the magnets where the repulsion is. Hopefully the push would be greater than the repulsion. I think it would be best to let Rick finish his set up and ideas first before coming up with too many other ideas, hopefully Rick's ideas will work!

Mark

[Spearmaster]

My build

Hi Rick,

I'm (hopefully) going to upload a picture of my build and I have questions. Do you use a particular spacing for each set of your magnets? Like a diminishing distance between each magnet in a set? I'm using nine pieces of two magnets each with approx. six inch spacing between sets. My 'quickie' stator does not move smoothly yet (I have to machine off a few more thousandths), but my rotation is not what I would like and does not seem to be as good (smooth) as your videos although I believe I am using the identical magnets. I have not yet attached a flywheel and my wheel is not the smoothest thing in town. It's possible that I have not yet attained the proper distance travel for the stator. It seems to require around two inches of travel at approx. one inch above the magnets to maintain rotation. There is also a lot of pressure against the stator magnet which means it will have to be somehow locked in place after transitions. Are you ready to say what type of mechanism you will use to move your stator?

I just realized that I haven't emailed my info to you; I'll do that now.

Later,
Carl

[IMG]c:\pipedream01.jpg[/IMG]

[Mark]

Hi Spearmaster

Your magnets look like they're too far apart. Rick mentions the spacing in a previous post or video I dont remember which. Good luck to you.

[rickoff]

I also like the idea of second stator arm but my thoughts are to set up both arms so one is at the end of the magnets at the push point and the other is at the beginning of the magnets where the repulsion is. Hopefully the push would be greater than the repulsion. I think it would be best to let Rick finish his set up and ideas first before coming up with too many other ideas, hopefully Rick's ideas will work!

Mark

Hi Mark,

Actually, if you use my preferred N-S-N-S magnet groupings, then there is always attraction accelleration at the beginning of each group, and repulsion accelleration at the end. So think of the forces as being additive, rather than for the need of one to overcome the other. Also, if the stator pole positioning is correct at both ends then the accellerative effects will be equal at all entry and exit points.

Best 2 U,

Rick

[Mark]

LoL, one of these days I'm going to learn to be a little more clear. I meant if the stators were stationary.

[rickoff]

Reply to Spearmaster:

Hi Rick,

I'm (hopefully) going to upload a picture of my build and I have questions. Do you use a particular spacing for each set of your magnets? Like a diminishing distance between each magnet in a set? I'm using nine pieces of two magnets each with approx. six inch spacing between sets. My 'quickie' stator does not move smoothly yet (I have to machine off a few more thousandths), but my rotation is not what I would like and does not seem to be as good (smooth) as your videos although I believe I am using the identical magnets. I have not yet attached a flywheel and my wheel is not the smoothest thing in town. It's possible that I have not yet attained the proper distance travel for the stator. It seems to require around two inches of travel at approx. one inch above the magnets to maintain rotation. There is also a lot of pressure against the stator magnet which means it will have to be somehow locked in place after transitions. Are you ready to say what type of mechanism you will use to move your stator?

I just realized that I haven't emailed my info to you; I'll do that now.

Later,
Carl

[IMG]c:\pipedream01.jpg[/IMG]

Hi Carl,

Thanks for the picture. Glad to see more builds are coming along.

As to your questions, I do use a particular spacing between each bar magnet. I'm certain that was addressed earlier, but I can't remember which post. I did talk about the layout and spacings in video #2, and that video also gives a good view of my 1/4" thick hard drive magnet from more than one angle. YouTube - Video #2, "Rick's Pipe Dream" Magnetic Motor - Generator

The actual spacing that you should use will be determined by two important relationships. One is the actual dimensions of the HD magnet. I have found that the strongest influence from my HD magnet is seen about 1/4" in from each of the arc ends, so while the overall straight-line length dimension is 1.5", the max strength pole positions are actually 1" apart. This effect is established in three videos related to my stator arm (#10 through 12). The videos clearly show that the attraction "sticky point," and the very touchy repulsion margin are both aligned 1/4" in from the ends of the magnet. So this 1" relationship is important to remember. The other relationship of importance is the size of the rotor magnets being used. If you are using the same 3/8" x 3/4" magnets that I am, and if your HD magnet has the same dimensions then I think you will find that a spacing between magnets of anywhere from 1/2" to 5/8" (measured at the outer perimeter of the rim) works best. At 5/8", this places the center to center distance of the magnets 1" apart, which matches the HD pole separation.

Your "quickie stator" does seem excessively long, so will be difficult to stabilize above the rotor magnets while moving it. Try this with a separation distance of 1+3/4" between the HD and rotor magnets (as I did in video #17), and you will notice that rotation is still good (even with the added weight of the flywheel), and that the forces pushing and pulling the stator are practically negated, making the stator more stable and quite easy to move. Be sure to use the N-S-N-S "cats meow" group configuration, and orient the HD magnet to pivot aligned with the length across the rim rather than in line with it.

I did post info regarding the tracking system essentials back in post #71 (page 3) in the last paragraph. You may have missed that. I'll be going into further detail about that shortly as the build documentation continues, so there will be plenty of photos and video to show what I am doing.

Thanks again for the photo, and for carrying your build forwards.

Best regards to you,

Rick

[navigator]

Hey Rick, what a great thread!

Thats a very nice design and innovative build ...I have 25 .5"x.25" square N48 neos on order, I was surprised how cheap they are. I am going to try something similiar, only much smaller, using peices from erector sets. I haven't dabbled much in magnets, but looking forward to it.

[rickoff]

Update

Hi folks,

Just uploaded video #18. Ever since I started posting videos, people have been offering comments stating that I should be using some method (such as magnetic shielding) to overcome "sticky spots" and repulsive braking effects. This video explains and demonstrates why these counter rotational forces only apply to stationary stator designs, and how my moving stator entirely avoids such negative forces by turning them into productive, additive accelleration forces. I thought that I had already explained this well enough, but evidently some people just didn't get it. I have also taped footage for video #19, which tackles another popular misconception. Many people have been saying that by hand moving the stator I am supplying all of the energy used to rotate the wheel, but this is a false belief, and in video #19 I prove that by locking the stator in place and allowing it to start rotation from a standstill and move the wheel 135 degrees with no hand movement or assistance whatsoever. This clearly shows that it is the magnetic interactions that are moving the wheel, and that any input energy from me is simply used to move the stator. I only move the stator about 1/2 inch, and only at the tail end of each of the four magnet groups, so there are just 4 movements per revolution. These movements take place (or at least should) within a 10 degree area of rotation, and then the stator remains in that position through the next 80 degrees of rotation, and this order is repeated at each magnet group. Thus, for every revolution of the rotor, there is 40 degrees where movement takes place, and 320 degrees where there is no stator movement at all. And, to make it all the sweeter, those 4 brief movements, 90 degrees apart, result in eight additive accelleration boosts during each revolution. Those who couldn't see the power of this method, and who thought that I was somehow supplying all the motive force, now have no leg to stand on.

I did not have time to process and upload video #19 yet, and I will be gone to Massachusetts today and tomorrow to visit with my daughter and her family. I will try to upload the video from her house, but if that can't be done then it will have to wait until I return home.

Best regards to all,

Rick

[RAMSET]

'RICKS pipe dream'

RICK,

What you are doing Is a great inspiration [and VERY hard work!!]

Thank you ,just doesn't cover it.

Enjoy your visit!

Chet