Atomic hydrogen furnace with COP of 21

[Savvypro]

Do you know of anyone who's selling them? Or are they strictly DIY?

Harbor Freight has a 10kW generator head for $289. It needs a 20Hp motor to drive it. Something like this would be ideal for a closed loop system, if at least half of the power were available as output.

I think their strictly DIY, although I did read about someone who makes replicas of Teslas stuff for museums, can't remember where I read it but I do remember that he said he built a device with lots of batteries and was very happy to not have to continue working on it - after it was destroyed by someone who worked with him. Come to think of it, it may have been in this forum.

I'm also thinking along the lines you are on the power out put, if only say 50% can be extracted then just have a couple more to get more output plus if one unit either breaks down or needs maintenance you have 1 or 2 more available.

The other solution is to scale it up for extra power output, which may just be as easy as using helium instead of hydrogen, when I went through the yahoo group mentioned in and earlier post, the subject of helium was brought up.

It seams that the process of splitting the helium atoms may require multiple discharges compared to hydrogen. The only issue is that the hydrogen process has been confirmed, helium hasn't in the form of a furnace (that I'm aware of).

Helium may put out 4 times as much as hydrogen but is it a COP of greater than 1, that's the question I'm still looking to answer.

[Electrotek]

It seams that the process of splitting the helium atoms may require multiple discharges compared to hydrogen. The only issue is that the hydrogen process has been confirmed, helium hasn't in the form of a furnace (that I'm aware of).

Helium may put out 4 times as much as hydrogen but is it a COP of greater than 1, that's the question I'm still looking to answer.

Thanks for this input. I had been leaning towards using helium since I have a tank on hand. But if it's going to take multiple arcs I'll stick with hydrogen. Electrolysis is easy enough. And it wouldn't hurt to put the unneeded oxygen into the atmosphere.

I mixed up a batch of the insulating concrete, thinking that the lid from a coffee jar might be ABS plastic. If not, I have an extra vacuum cleaner I haven't stripped the motor out of yet, and it IS made of ABS. It took about an hour of filing with a small wood rasp to get a usable amount of the tiny plastic chunks. And I'm using patching concrete, without any aggregate. I'll let it cure for a day or two before I put a torch to it.

[Aaron]

helium

Helium is non-flammable so what is the application of helium here?

[Jetijs]

Aaron, as far as I know, hydrogen also does not burn if there is no oxygen present. So if you have a vessel with all the air sucked out and then fill it with hydrogen, the sparks inside the vessel wont burn the hydrogen, just disassociate it from H2 to 2H and the heat is produced when 2H is recombining back into molecular H2. This happens on contact with metal (or am I wrong here?). So I don't see why helium shouldn't work. These gases are not burning up there. At least this is how I understand this so far. I might be wrong.

[Savvypro]

Thanks for this input. I had been leaning towards using helium since I have a tank on hand. But if it's going to take multiple arcs I'll stick with hydrogen. Electrolysis is easy enough. And it wouldn't hurt to put the unneeded oxygen into the atmosphere.

I mixed up a batch of the insulating concrete, thinking that the lid from a coffee jar might be ABS plastic. If not, I have an extra vacuum cleaner I haven't stripped the motor out of yet, and it IS made of ABS. It took about an hour of filing with a small wood rasp to get a usable amount of the tiny plastic chunks. And I'm using patching concrete, without any aggregate. I'll let it cure for a day or two before I put a torch to it.

The information on the helium splitting process is limited, so it might require some experimentation. Although hydrogen is still a good starting point, plus we already know it gives out more than it takes in.

Can't wait to hear the results of your insulating concrete experimentation.

[Savvypro]

Helium is non-flammable so what is the application of helium here?

William R. Lyne who proposed the idea of the hydrogen furnace also stated that helium could be use and that it would give off or release up to 460,000 calories/gram-atom, about 4 times as much as hydrogen (based on his calculations).

Which is the reason why we were looking at using it, the only issue is that it may require 3 arcs to disassociate the helium atoms - this info is taken from a post Lyne made on the yahoo group Tishatang linked to in post 16.

[Aaron]

helium safety

Hi Jetijs,

Helium even in the presence of oxygen will not burn.

I've also popped quite a few helium ballons with a lighter in the past and they don't explode. The fire just pops the balloon and that's it. If it was flammable, it would be illegal to use it in balloons for children I'm sure.

Also, helium is so non-flammable that I believe it is illegal to export helium out of the U.S. The reason is to prevent "enemies" from using it fill up balloons with explosives attached, etc... and sending it into US airspace. Also, if you have a helium filled blimp with multiple pockets of helium, you can shoot at it with anything you want and it will only pop the pockets but will not explode making it difficult to bring it down.

[Jetijs]

Aaron, I know that.
But as far as I know, it doesn't matter if the gas is flammable. All that matters is that it can be disassociated into atomic state using electricity. The gas in atomic state will sooner or later recombine back into molecular state and this is when the excess energy manifests itself in the form of heat. As I said, I could be wrong

[Savvypro]

Aaron, as far as I know, hydrogen also does not burn if there is no oxygen present. So if you have a vessel with all the air sucked out and then fill it with hydrogen, the sparks inside the vessel wont burn the hydrogen, just disassociate it from H2 to 2H and the heat is produced when 2H is recombining back into molecular H2. This happens on contact with metal (or am I wrong here?). So I don't see why helium shouldn't work. These gases are not burning up there. At least this is how I understand this so far. I might be wrong.

Jetijs,

Your right, no oxygen is involved or should be used.
When H2 is disassociated it picks up "energy" while in the single H form (based on Tom Bearden description of the process) then when it is recombined to 2H it gives off the excess heat which we can use.

In Lynes original furnace drawing which I posted in post 15

It states the following:
"activation energy" device
(spark plug, catalytic metal, etc)

Based on that either a spark plug or a catalytic metal could be used to recombine the hydrogen back to 2H.

The issue on using helium is on the process used to disassociate it.

[Savvypro]

I should add that the biggest issue with this furnace, be it using hydrogen or helium is going to be to prevent the furnace chamber from melting simply because of the amount of heat given off by the process.

One of the reasons for using helium is that if the chamber is breached it will not react with oxygen.

[Radiant_Science]

William R. Lyne who proposed the idea of the hydrogen furnace also stated that helium could be use and that it would give off or release up to 460,000 calories/gram-atom, about 4 times as much as hydrogen (based on his calculations).

Which is the reason why we were looking at using it, the only issue is that it may require 3 arcs to disassociate the helium atoms - this info is taken from a post Lyne made on the yahoo group Tishatang linked to in post 16.

I'm pretty sure you have it backwards...I'm pretty sure the helium gives out less energy and the Hydrogen gives out about 1000x more energy...if I remember correctly

[Savvypro]

I'm pretty sure you have it backwards...I'm pretty sure the helium gives out less energy and the Hydrogen gives out about 1000x more energy...if I remember correctly

I may be wrong but based on the figures Lyne gives and others that I have seen from other sources like the work of Irving Langmuir.

Hydrogen gives off about 130,000 calories/gram-atom (I have seen figures of 140,000 and 150,000 calories/gram-atom) - the 130K figure is from Irving Langmuirs work. Lyne himself only states 108,897 calories/gram-atom.

For hydrogen it only takes 103 cal/gram to dissociate the atoms.

While helium gives off about 460,000 calories/gram-atom from Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopaedia which Lyne references and their is also a copy of the page on the yahoo group.


Question to all: anyone know how much it takes to dissociate helium?

[Guest]

What do you mean by dissociate?
Helium does not form a molecule because it is inert, does it not?

[Aaron]

gas power

Aaron, I know that.
But as far as I know, it doesn't matter if the gas is flammable. All that matters is that it can be disassociated into atomic state using electricity. The gas in atomic state will sooner or later recombine back into molecular state and this is when the excess energy manifests itself in the form of heat. As I said, I could be wrong

Lol, I thought that was pretty basic.

Meyer has patents also for converting gas not into heat but directly into electricity. His first patent was for magnetic gas. Anyway, different from what this thread is about.

I've had the Lyne book for quite a while...will have to glance at it.

[Savvypro]

What do you mean by dissociate?
Helium does not form a molecule because it is inert, does it not?

The process for helium is hazy at best, Lyne just mentions the power output that the helium can be used.

Helium can form He2 under the right conditions, but I doubt that's what would take place in the furnace, then again you never know.

I think the process for helium is to strip away the electron and then to recombine the nucleus with the electrons.