Water Turbine Project

[Ted Ewert]

@ stealth - can you do a little drawing of your design? i've debated using the rotation to draw water up via an archimedes screw but have been stumped at how to implement it in an actual device

with three of us working on this from different angles, it could get quite interesting.

also waiting eagerly for any pics from ren.

all

I was thinking of an Archimedes screw today on the way to work. You could make one with a bunch of fender washers and a metal rod.
You'd have make a cut through the ring on the washers. Then pry the washer ends apart to your screw angle. Weld, glue or screw the washers together around a center rod and you have a screw. Find a pipe that fits around the outside and you got it made. I'll try to build one in the next day or two and post some pictures.
I tried the centrifugal "cone pump" today without much luck. It would pump for about a second then quit. It would probably work except it won't draw up more water. I glued a couple of "ears" on the shaft to try and force some water in. When the glue dries tomorrow I'll give it a try.
I was also thinking of a cone shaped coil of tubing leading up to the the arms. It would work much like the screw, only as it rises, the diameter of the coil increases, which would cause centrifugal force to play a larger part in forcing the water up. The hard part with one of these would be shaping the coil.

Cheers,

Ted

[Inquorate]

how about this?

Picasa Web Albums - benjaminmarkbrand... - water turbine

love and light

[Ted Ewert]

Picasa Web Albums - benjaminmarkbrand... - water turbine

love and light

Yes, that's about what I was thinking of. Maybe a couple of more turns.
I've tried melting PVC pipe and it's not easy. The pipes like to collapse when being bent and they're HOT! Soft copper tubing would be a good choice, but even then a tight radius can be tricky. Using a tubing bender and packing the tubing with sand, or a flexible spring, will help prevent kinking. I think this will be the eventual winner.
I still want to try the screw. It looks like fun to build too. The only thing with the screw is that an Archimedes screw is designed to work on a slant, not straight up and down. It will be interesting to see how much, if any, head can be developed.

Ted

[sucahyo]

@Ted Ewert, Bruce de Palma stuff is interesting.

Is there spesific reason to put the copper tube in the middle of the PVC? Why do you choose it instead in the side like in picture bellow:




Or the copper tube is actually connected to cone funnel inside the PVC tube?

Just thinking maybe the vertex make the water in the middle of the PVC tube lighter or less powerfull and actually reduce the speed/flow of the water on the copper tube if put in the middle.

If the copper tube is small, the rotation inside the PVC tube is slow?

[Inquorate]

tubing

@ sucahyo - nice pics; the points you make seem intuitive

@ ted - after thinking a little, i believe my pic posted above is probably lifting the water too far; we don't need it to come that far up??

now to find a flame torch and try not to set fire to some pvc, or bend some sand filled copper tubes - two at a time to minimise balance issues later on

also gotta source a motor

lots of


ps, Ted, can you limit the inflow to your central pipe? maybe you need to initially maintain the suction before opening up the flow, kinda like an old style choke for a car engine.... i mentioned it in my last vid on the first page.


love and light

[Inquorate]

Average suburban garden hose

@ Ted - how about, for proof of concept re centrifugal pump, the typical garden hose glued to the inside of a rigid cone, with a hole in the bottom..

Why do the ideas come so incessantly?

One sheep. Two sheep. Three sheep.. Etc......

[Vortex]

Just For Reference, drawing curves

In case someone had any ideas about using some curves ...

Egg curves
Ovals and Egg Curves
See Mechanical Egg Curve Construction seems about the easiest method.

PARABOLIC LINE, PRECISE STRAIGHT LINE ARTISTRY
Parabolic Line Design: Drawing Curves From Straight Lines

How to Draw a Fibonacci Spiral
How to Draw a Fibonacci Spiral | eHow.com
Video How to draw a Fibonacci spiral?

[Ted Ewert]

@Ted Ewert, Bruce de Palma stuff is interesting.

Is there specific reason to put the copper tube in the middle of the PVC? Or the copper tube is actually connected to cone funnel inside the PVC tube?

Actually, there is a little cone leading to the nozzle. This is how the reducing coupling was constructed. In this particular design the hole is in the middle because I'm not taking advantage of a flow pattern, as in your drawing. I have separate nozzles, much like you drew, for another configuration down the road.

Ted

[Ted Ewert]

@ sucahyo - nice pics; the points you make seem intuitive

@ ted - after thinking a little, i believe my pic posted above is probably lifting the water too far; we don't need it to come that far up??

now to find a flame torch and try not to set fire to some pvc, or bend some sand filled copper tubes - two at a time to minimise balance issues later on

also gotta source a motor

lots of


ps, Ted, can you limit the inflow to your central pipe? maybe you need to initially maintain the suction before opening up the flow, kinda like an old style choke for a car engine.... i mentioned it in my last vid on the first page.
How about, for proof of concept re centrifugal pump, the typical garden hose glued to the inside of a rigid cone, with a hole in the bottom..

Why do the ideas come so incessantly?


love and light

I suffer from the same incessant thinking disease (obsessive disorder?), you have my full sympathy.
The only way suction is created in this design is by the arms being full of water and spinning it out. Filling the arms is all we're trying to do here so I'm not sure that a restriction would help.
On that note, when building these turbines, we have to make sure there are no air leaks. Air is much easier to suck in than water, and we really want all the air out of the turbine. As a matter of fact, purging the air during start up is another tedious design consideration (headache) that has to be dealt with. If the water flows up through the center, as with the screw, it will tend to also purge the air. If the water is fed into the arms out towards the nozzles, then there is all that trapped air between the two arms to deal with. As long as there is air in the turbine, resonance cannot be obtained.
Something new to ponder anyway.

Cheers,

Ted

[Mark]

Hi Ted

Just a thought here but could you fill you barrel up past the nozzles and start the motor and then after the air is purged just let some of the water out through a plug in the bottom of the barrel?

Mark

[Inquorate]

Water level

That's what I'm planning to do :-)

[Ted Ewert]

Here is the start of my Archimedes screw. I used some 1/2" fender washers and made a cut along the radius. Then I pounded them into shape in the vise and welded them together on a 1/2" steel rod. I'm not the best welder, but they stuck anyway. I used 8 washers for this much screw, but I may make it longer if needed.
I didn't have a chance to try it out today, so I'll give it a shot tomorrow.



They fit very nicely into the PVC pipe



Cheers,

Ted

[sucahyo]

Nozzle suggestion

What a nice work .

In case this nozzle design not being considered yet, how about nozzle with rocket like shape? half parabolic like in space shuttle?



I find this design to be best for max push force. I usually use it when watering flower because it will reach very far and easier to do than other method.

Here is what I did:
Normal flow:


Half closing the mouth


Pressing the mouth


Pressing the neck, the furthest reach


If done wrong the water will flow slowly. But if done properly there would be air island fromed in the middle of the mouth .


Sorry for the poor image quality.

If replication the rocket tail is hard, I think squeezing copper tube neck should be ok.

Maybe a nozzle that make the water spread out when existing nozzle has the best pushing force.

[Inquorate]

Nozzles

@ Sucahyo - I'd never tried collapsing the near end of a hose before. Thanks for that.

[Cloxxki]

@ Sucahyo - I'd never tried collapsing the near end of a hose before. Thanks for that.

Car hosing will never be the same again. Thanks indeed!