Water Turbine Project

[Peter Lindemann]

Valve Stuck...

Ted,

I'm not sure bigger springs are going to help. I think that as soon as the valve closes on one side, a vacuum starts developing behind it as water leaves the nozzle. This is what holds the valve shut. Your design might have to incorporate a way to break the vacuum to accomplish what you are trying to do.

By the way, awesome project!!!

Peter

[Ted Ewert]

Ted,

I'm not sure bigger springs are going to help. I think that as soon as the valve closes on one side, a vacuum starts developing behind it as water leaves the nozzle. This is what holds the valve shut. Your design might have to incorporate a way to break the vacuum to accomplish what you are trying to do.

By the way, awesome project!!!

Peter

Thanks Peter!
I think I figured out what went wrong with the valve. My choice of materials was unfortunately on the light side. The balls I bought (3 for a dollar) were too spongy and got pushed (pulled?) right through the seat!
Subsequently I've modified a hard rubber lacrosse ball to fit the seat. Hopefully this will have a little more structural integrity.




I have tried to minimize the vacuum problem by locating the valves out as far on the arms as I can. This only leaves a small amount of water left in the elbow piece, which is hopefully not enough to overcome the spring and the force of the moving water on the other ball.
Whether the ball was sucked or pushed through the seat remains to be determined. Nevertheless, I may have to reduce the size of the elbow some more in order to release the ball, if it becomes a problem.

Cheers,

Ted

[Naboo]

Hey Ted, how's the construction going?
Its kinda funny. In most of these kind of projects it is usually never the concept itself which proves to be the hard challenge but those damn air bubbles

I haven't made my test unit yet as I saw some problems getting it to fit together. The problem is mainly that I am working with metal, which initially don't rusts, but if welded without the the proper electrodes then will rust.

I then thought about using glue, specifically Epoxy. I'm not really sure if it can really be called a glue since it gets so strong. But do you think it will do the job, in a small test motor? The most important function is that it makes the connection seams watertight, I could in addition reinforce them from the outside without having to deal with corrosion problems....

Just the thought of this working....It can really set my imagination spinning
Julian

[Ted Ewert]

Hi Julian,
The turbine got side tracked for a while as usual, but I just started back on it again a few days ago. I'll be gone for a week in a day or two, so I'll work on it some more when I get back.
When I'm putting projects together, I try and use screws wherever I can. That way I can easily change things around and reuse pieces. Nevertheless, epoxy is an excellent cement, and should work well on metal. What works even better is JB Weld.
One of the handiest tools I ever bought was a small wire-feed MIG welder. You can get them for a couple hundred bucks and they're simple to use. I had it up and fusing metal in about 30 minutes and I was never taught to weld. It's easy and fun, highly recommended.

Ted

[Naboo]

.... What works even better is JB Weld.
One of the handiest tools I ever bought was a small wire-feed MIG welder. You can get them for a couple hundred bucks and they're simple to use. I had it up and fusing metal in about 30 minutes and I was never taught to weld. It's easy and fun, highly recommended.

Ted

We got one of those! I haven't tried it yet, mainly because I don't know if there's enough gas left in it, also it seems wasteful trying to practice with a limited gas supply, and I don't know where we can get more.
I've been using the normal stick-type welding, but the problem is that we only got normal steel electrodes, and the stainless ones are supposed to be much more expensive. But isn't that the case with the MIG also?

But I also try to do it that way, keep the bigger parts attached by nuts and bolts, so that any mistake or possible addition can be made easily.


Btw, could you also help me on another problem?
See I found among all the scrap part in the garage a box full of ball-bearings in all kinds of dimensions, quite a treasure really! But they have way too much friction and I know they are supposed to be easily repaired (there is no physical damage on them).

I know people say they should have some sort of grease on them, but I also heard that you can lubricate them with oil..... Can I use both of them or just one? I really need one for my motor, since it doesn't have much mass the friction will slow it too much.

Thank you for answering,
Julian

[Ted Ewert]

Hi Julian,
If you have a wire feed MIG, you can use flux filled wire and you don't need any gas. I don't have any gas hooked up to my welder and it works great. However, flux filled only comes in regular mild steel wire. For stainless, aluminum or any other metal you would still need the gas.
For ball bearings I use a spray product called Slick 50, which I bought at an auto parts store. It is an excellent light lubricant and works very well on bearings. There are a number of these types of products available. Lubrilon is another one I have that works well. These products are far superior to other light lubricants such as WD 40, or machine oil.
You may want to give your bearings a bath first in some sort of a solvent to remove all the old grease. I use paint thinner. Then dry them well before applying any new lubricant.


Cheers,

Ted

[Cloxxki]

Simple ptfe spray got my 20 years old bearings (sea climate) to spin for minutes with a larger skate wheel.
Free Energy devices also don't really required super fast bearings until you're adding a load. Let the bearing be the load :-)

[Naboo]

Thanks guys, I need something that can handle speed as well. Since this will give an automatic feedback I don't know when the acceleration will be overcome by friction. If it doesn't it will probably self-destruct, but that would be cool too

But do I need both grease and some lubricating oil? Sorry but I've never fixed a ball bearing before
The grease we have is very thick and is called universal grease, but maybe that isn't suited for ball bearings? I need this problem solved before I can move on so any help is really appreciated
Julian

[Ted Ewert]

Thanks guys, I need something that can handle speed as well. Since this will give an automatic feedback I don't know when the acceleration will be overcome by friction. If it doesn't it will probably self-destruct, but that would be cool too

But do I need both grease and some lubricating oil? Sorry but I've never fixed a ball bearing before
The grease we have is very thick and is called universal grease, but maybe that isn't suited for ball bearings? I need this problem solved before I can move on so any help is really appreciated
Julian

You only need grease if you have a continuous heavy load on the bearing. As the bearing heats up, the grease will thin out and provide better lubrication. This is the case with the wheel bearings on your car.
For most of our purposes, I would avoid the grease since the bearing is very unlikely to heat up at all.
Soak your bearings in paint thinner and get all the old lubricant out. Dry them well, then apply something like Slick 50. Your bearings should be quite easy to spin at that point.

Ted

[Naboo]

Ok thanks Ted! I'll keep on topic from now on

[Matos de Matos]

Hi Ted:
I havenīt paid much attention to Viktor Schauberger work, but the picture below called my attention, and this is my first impression and how I see it. Probably a nonsense, but, well I want to learn, correct me, please.
The nozzle of the whorl pipes have double function; the jet impairs a force on the rim, pushing on it and the repulse of water hits the upper impellers and pushes it in the same direction of the rim.
I think that a direct jet will give higher velocity in the direction contrary that on the drawing. Why have the same water jets ricochet and work against a baffler that will push in the opposite direction?
They both rotate in the same direction. I am not sure which will rotate faster, but the inertia of rotating water in a tornado type, has a lot of energy.
The rim is connected to impellers, which create the water tornado. (baffler)
The inner of the rotating water does not funnel much, because the air is bleed out on the outer of the vessel ( release valve)reducing the atmospheric pressure on the water.
The whorl pipes are united in a ring that immerses on the water that is rotating.
The inner water at high velocity and low pressure will ascend the whorl pipe. The outer walls of the vacuum zone are the start of the spiral, with a channel. The egg shape format and an ideal angle on the whorl pipes will accelerate the water that will transform its kinetic energy in to potential.

Ted, congratulations on your work, you have great prototypes, and I envy your shop, I would live on it, experimenting.
Thank you
David

[modanajamess]

thank for the information provided by you, what i am saying is, up to my knowledge the concept you provided by you is works under the sound concept, am i right?
but what i suggest is utilising solar energy is better to over come the some other problems like electrical power consumption what do you say?

[Karl_Palsness]

Just a few Vortex Turbine pictures I thought you might like. I have a few creeks on my property that I have thought of making one of these. I just have not had the money or the help to make it yet. As in all free energy machines it cost money to get the device so it is really not free after you account for the machinery or the time. But some day I hope to make at least one of these.



Sepp Hasslberger: Water Vortex Drives Power Plant







our company

Gravitational Vortex Power - Eco Friendly and POWERFUL! | AEONIA

[Matos de Matos]

Sepp Hasslberger: Water Vortex Drives Power Plant

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Hi Karl:
Sepp site has always with great information.
I like to read his posts.
I saw that, and when I studied the tornado home generator, those images come to me.
The water in the generator has to turn and make a “tornado”.
The difference is that with the setup that you posted. we have two forces pushing down the water; gravity and air pressure, because the center tunnels down due to air pressure, too.
With the home generator, the atmospheric pressure is reduced to avoid the tunnel effect, and by the Arquimedes buoyancy law, the water goes up.
Ted did not comment, so I open a new tread with this subject.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...how-i-see.html

Thank you
David

[Ted Ewert]

Hi Ted:
I havenīt paid much attention to Viktor Schauberger work, but the picture below called my attention, and this is my first impression and how I see it. Probably a nonsense, but, well I want to learn, correct me, please.
The nozzle of the whorl pipes have double function; the jet impairs a force on the rim, pushing on it and the repulse of water hits the upper impellers and pushes it in the same direction of the rim.
I think that a direct jet will give higher velocity in the direction contrary that on the drawing. Why have the same water jets ricochet and work against a baffler that will push in the opposite direction?
They both rotate in the same direction. I am not sure which will rotate faster, but the inertia of rotating water in a tornado type, has a lot of energy.
The rim is connected to impellers, which create the water tornado. (baffler)
The inner of the rotating water does not funnel much, because the air is bleed out on the outer of the vessel ( release valve)reducing the atmospheric pressure on the water.
The whorl pipes are united in a ring that immerses on the water that is rotating.
The inner water at high velocity and low pressure will ascend the whorl pipe. The outer walls of the vacuum zone are the start of the spiral, with a channel. The egg shape format and an ideal angle on the whorl pipes will accelerate the water that will transform its kinetic energy in to potential.


Thank you
David

Hi David,
Sorry for the slow response, I didn't notice this thread.
The pipe is pointed in the direction of rotation because the velocity of rotation is added to the velocity of the water exiting the tube. This greatly increases the kinetic energy of the water.

Ted, congratulations on your work, you have great prototypes, and I envy your shop, I would live on it, experimenting.

Thanks. I try and live in my shop as much as possible. Building and experimenting are a lot of fun.

Cheers,

Ted