Water Turbine Project

[Vortex]

Too much vacuum will cause failure

If the device must be primed before starting, it will stop functioning upon loss of the prime.
A "must be primed to work" device will never become a run-away, (maybe?)

As a, must be primed device, rotation speed increases ... a vacuum will occur.
That vacuum will cause the device to fail at the point the water begins to vaporize (or boil) .

If the device can not re-prime itself at a lower rotation speed than the speed that cause the vaporization .. then the device fails.

If the device can re-prime itself as it slows down, lowering the vacuum, you end up with a pulsing device without the need for any values.
The device will never be a run-away due to vaporization of water under vacuum.

However, if the device is self-priming from the start, it would probably not fail after reaching the vapor point, but would just slow down some and re-prime.
A device which does not require priming would not have to be concerned about vaporization caused by too much vacuum.

I know, I know .. if we only had this kind of PROBLEM ..

Just

[Ted Ewert]

If the device must be primed before starting, it will stop functioning upon loss of the prime.
A "must be primed to work" device will never become a run-away, (maybe?)

As a, must be primed device, rotation speed increases ... a vacuum will occur.
That vacuum will cause the device to fail at the point the water begins to vaporize (or boil) .

If the device can not re-prime itself at a lower rotation speed than the speed that cause the vaporization .. then the device fails.

If the device can re-prime itself as it slows down, lowering the vacuum, you end up with a pulsing device without the need for any values.
The device will never be a run-away due to vaporization of water under vacuum.

However, if the device is self-priming from the start, it would probably not fail after reaching the vapor point, but would just slow down some and re-prime.
A device which does not require priming would not have to be concerned about vaporization caused by too much vacuum.

I know, I know .. if we only had this kind of PROBLEM ..

Just

This device shouldn't lose it's prime once it gets going (unless it has an air leak), and I don't think there is much chance of major cavitation either. In fact, if I start getting cavitation I'll know I have arrived.
I'm getting a little hung up on the pump because it needs to not only prime the turbine, but also allow the turbine to draw more water once it gets up to speed.
I could prime it through a tube connected to a pump if I had to. There is no reason it shouldn't be self priming though. Schauberger ran self priming turbines so I should be able to figure it out.
I'm planning on rigging up a couple of valves that are connected to each other to cause an oscillation. It'll work just like a water hammer. When one valve closes, the other one opens more. Then the increased flow of water will close that one and the other one will open up. As the pressure wave moves back and forth, it will help to open and shut the valves. This should set up a nice resonance.
This will require a lot of testing and adjusting to get it working just right. I don't want to have to fool around with priming every time.



Ted

[Inquorate]

Nice find! The thing on the left end of your rule is a center finder for a circle. Those are very handy. I've been looking around for one of those, but nobody carries them in this area. I finally wound up making one a couple of days ago.
On another note... I was thinking that all wounds received during fabrication or operation should be posted from now on. When we sacrifice our flesh and blood in pursuit of FE, the world needs to see it. All gouges, scrapes, cuts and contusions, suffered while selflessly building the next savior of mankind, qualify for posting. That the offending piece should have been clamped to the workbench, you were using the hammer improperly, or that you had cut the grounding prong off the drill cord before being electrocuted, is immaterial. This is not a court of blame, but rather a forum for the recognition of sacrifices, regardless of how dubious the cause.
From now on, the Purple Spade Bit award will be given to all those brave and intrepid FE seekers who are wounded in the line of duty.



Cheers,

Ted

Lol; also, it will serve to educate those that follow as to potential pitfalls..

That pic is going on my phone background - and I will pass it on to the next victim if I'm notified, by email or somesuch.. And so on.. It can be quite an in-joke.. One day, they will wonder why exactly it's called the purple spade bit award, while mulling over a poorly grasped pint..

Aah, the irony..

[everwiser]

Those are all good ideas, and I'm sure they would work, but I don't have the machining capabilities to pull off things like a tapered shaft.
One of my goals is to build something that most guys can replicate. I only use parts that can be found in any decent hardware store, and I have a basic array of shop tools. Besides, finding a simple solution to this pump issue is an interesting challenge (and I'm a cheap screw). I'm also learning a lot about pumping and hydraulics from beating my head against this problem.
Thanks for the thoughts.

Ted

No problem. Just brainstorming.

[Inquorate]

Sharing research

Hi all; anyone wanting to make a spiral out of copper tubing, or just bend it, may benefit from reading this;

Workshop receipts, for manufacturers ... - Google Books

Starts halfway down

[Inquorate]

Java applet animations of hydrodynamics principles

My phone won't play java applets, but I'm assuming these links may be useful in showing fluid dynamics..

Fluid Mechanics, Pump and water systems

[Ted Ewert]

Hi all; anyone wanting to make a spiral out of copper tubing, or just bend it, may benefit from reading this;

Workshop receipts, for manufacturers ... - Google Books

Starts halfway down

Good stuff but a tad dated (1909). Filling a copper pipe with lead before bending it seems a bit excessive, although you could probably make some pretty tight bends without kinking it. Tight bends are the tough ones.
You can also freeze soapy water in the pipe before you bend it. This works pretty good except you have to wait for it to freeze.

Ted

[Ted Ewert]

I have the new 3" screw pump built and assembled. I also made a new cross piece that has some characteristics I wanted. Here's a shot of the new unit:



I haven't tested it yet, but I thought would pass along a few pics anyway.

Here is the top of the screw. I welded some nails on the top to act as spacers. That brown gunk on the screw is from the welding.



Here is the top cap. I encapsulated a 7/8" nut in resin so I could just screw it on to the shaft. It makes putting it on and taking it off the drive shaft much easier.




I'll try and test it tomorrow.


cheers,

Ted

[Ted Ewert]

Well... it worked.
It pumped a fair amount of water so it's on to the next phase.
Now I have to design a mechanism to make the water oscillate from nozzle to nozzle. I have an idea for a couple of self acting valves that will open and close alternately, which should cause some interesting things to happen.

Cheers,

Ted

[Inquorate]

Well... it worked.
It pumped a fair amount of water so it's on to the next phase.
Now I have to design a mechanism to make the water oscillate from nozzle to nozzle. I have an idea for a couple of self acting valves that will open and close alternately, which should cause some interesting things to happen.

Cheers,

Ted

EXCELLENT!

that's good news Ted, great to hear

[Joit]

Another Vid from the Pump from Wolfhart Willimczik for who is interested.
Just till 1:00

[Naboo]

Great work

Hi Ted, I just found out that you made this new tread as a continuation on your last project.
I must say that I really think you and the others are making progress here, this process could be completely self-priming if the shape of the main rotating vessel was so that it graduadly turned wider and wider at the middle (with the water jets) and thinned out at the ends (especially at the bottom).

Of course this is not easy at all to make (or to buy) so you need another method, and I see you seemed to fix it at the end. However, at least I think a really good way to both give a self-priming and a small power boost (if the motor is small) is to connect a water pressure supply in addition to the source water meant to be lifted, which in combination with a tee joint and a normal water faucet valve (because of the two valve controls) would easily allow you to first prime it and getting it up to speed, and then when you think it is ready, slowly reverse the two controls to switch the water source. At least in my imagination it seems very practical, I'll just have to wait and see what reality tells me

[Ted Ewert]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Hopefully the priming issue has been settled with the 3" screw, but I still need to make sure all the air gets purged.
I'm now working on a self resonant valve which works with a couple of rubber balls seating against a ring at the end of each arm. Only one valve can be closed at a time since the balls are connected together. They are also spring loaded so both initially stay open. Once one closes the oscillation will theoretically begin.
The arrangement here is just a layout to get an idea of the approximate mechanism. Wadda ya think?



Cheers,

Ted

[Ted Ewert]

The screw ultimately didn't work out as well as I hoped. It couldn't pump enough water to purge the turbine of air. Rather than continue pulling my hair out trying to make it work, I switched gears and installed a pump.
It's a 12 volt pump I had from another project and it works good for this application.
As you can see in the picture, the water is pumped through some PVC pipe and into the bottom of the turbine. I used a common garden hose swivel to attach the bottom of the turbine.
I also included a one way valve that allows water to be sucked in once the turbine becomes primed. Then the pump can be turned off.



Here's the other side.



I tried it with the new oscillating valve and the valve got stuck to one side so I'll have to figure out what went wrong. May have to get stronger springs.

Cheers,

Ted

[Inquorate]

pump primer

Maybe that's the way to go... I haven't tried the spiral copper tube idea yet - to tell the truth I was going to give it a pass and replicate some of tesla's stuff instead. But maybe I'll have a go at it this weekend.. Ah, too many projects, so little time..

Love and light