Effects of Recirculating BEMF to Coil

[Inquorate]

Disconnecting the who from the what now?

I like the increased brightness from the bulb with little cost, and I'm sure it is indeed happening; but how?

Simplified schematic anyone?

[rave154]

just when you thought it couldnt get any weirder....

Gyula,

see the attatchment, at point "A" ( or the on/off switch at the top), if i make a break in the wire at that point the bulb flashes... at points B, C, D....when making a break at these points, bulb goes out but calmly without the flash.


just before work last night, i put an LED in series with the bulb...the LED lit up no matter which way round i inserted it, again not sure what this implies..also...

this is kind of hard to explain, see the 2nd attatchment PWM5.jpg ( see next post )

with the LED as it is in the diagram...both bulb & LED are lit (LED is VERY bright, bulb is maybe 40% or so), when i disconnect the negative lead...BOTH bulb & LED flash.....however...

when i turn the diode the other way around...the LED is lit (but not nearly as bright as above) but the bulb is not lit....and when i disconnect the negative lead...obviously the bulb does not flash..and neither does the LED.

with the LED as it is in the diagram, the standing volts on the bedini cap is 107V..with the LED the other way around the standing volts on the cap is 103V

with the LED as in the diagram, but with TWO bulbs....one either side of the LED.......all three are lit ( LED very bright )...all 3 flash... standing volts = 108V... turn the LED around.....LED is lit (not too bright at all ) neither bulb is lit.standing volts = 103V

with all as above with diode in direction as diagram and two bulbs, 1 either side.....but using analog meter to measure volts of bedini CAP....standing = 107/108 same as above.... now im going to try and see how much the needle moves for each "flash"...basically...4V maybe 5V

dabbing the negative lead on & off at maybe 4-5 timeas a second to produce flashes.the voltage on cap is about 95V, fluctuating obviously.but basicvally around the 90V area.

[rave154]

pwm5.jpg

PWM5.jpg showing LED attatched

[Aaron]

Luc, your circuit

Luc,

I don't know the status of your testing at this very moment but heard about the recommended test with the meter. It gobbles the gain. Your circuit and demonstrations are easily OU. The battery is needed to show it.

[gotoluc]

Luc,

I don't know the status of your testing at this very moment but heard about the recommended test with the meter. It gobbles the gain. Your circuit and demonstrations are easily OU. The battery is needed to show it.

Hi Aaron,

I'm busy with some temporary money making work at this time so I haven't done the capacitor, resistor test circuit yet.

I'll look into using only batteries and see what I can come up with.

Does self oscillation give preferable results?

Thanks

Luc

[rave154]

hi all,

i placed my analog meter across the "output" bulb to see the reaction when flashing, sure enough, it was steady at 4.5V or so, when i disconnect the NEG lead....it jumps up in time with the flash, maybe to 5V , 5.2 V.....that doesnt seem high enough for the brightness of flash..i think maybe the spring of the needle cant respond quick enough.

i connected a FWBR where the bulb was and connected the bulb to it with my scope across the bulb, bulb still flashes per normal...scope showing a peak to peak of about 9.5V...when i disconnect i get a peak to peak of sometimes 50V to 60V...LOT of activity on the scope.

the wave form when running is kind of a sawtooth...but the leading edge is curved over...like an upside down parabola curve.....and the other edge which normally slopes down at an angle of about 45 degrees for a sawtooth.....is dead vertical.


I just mounted a diametric cylinder magnet onto the shafte of a small DC motor to do the "johnny Davro 1 magnet bedini"....placing it carefully next to the coil and probing for the best location..... my main bedini rotor was stopped but the NEO was spinning pretty fast......i hooked a bulb across the output leads of the DC motor ( now acting as GENERATOR of course ) and was getting 5V...also my normal "output" bulb was giving 3.2V after rectification...also flashing as normal upon NEGATIVE disconnection to PWM circuit. bedini is consuming about 155mA --> 160mA


ok, disconnecting the GOTLUC circuit....and putting a bulb across the bedini cap...and also a cap across the output from the DC motor with bulb also.....i got the following:-

bedini cap bulb resistance = 12.9 Ohms

DC GEN cap bulb resistance = 11.8 Ohms

voltage across bedini Cap bulb =5.9 V

voltage across DC GEN cap bulb = 3.83 V

current draw on analog meter in bedini circuit = 163mA

bedini battery voltage = 12.89V

can somebody crunch these numbers.... 1 input(bedini battey), 2 outputs ( bedini cap bulb + DC GEN cap bulb )

more later

[Inquorate]

Scalar waves

@ rave - I believe you are creating scalar waves with an abrupt mechanical disruption of your circuit, which is what led me to investigate mechanical switching. Hopefully, I'll get the scalar wave detector working and easily replicatable..

YouTube - Inquorate 24 - slayer's big joule thief

YouTube - purple neon circuit without transistor

Love and light

[Jbignes5]

A suggestion

To better help with finding the right freq to pulse at I would use a variable cap. They usually call them trimmer capacitors. Now that you have the results of manifesting the spike. A variable cap in with the relay might help locating that sweet spot in your pulses. It seems like it is a inductive spike but it might have to do with the whole resonance of your device. If you interupt the power at other spots in the cicuit it goes out of resonance instantly letting it react normally to the interuption of power. Interupting it in between the source and begining of that circuit allows for the resonance to manifest a spike due to it all bypassing the first parts from the source of said spike. Much like the resonance demonstration showing two bulbs and how they work differently in resonance. when brought into resonance the first bulb went out and the power transfered to the bulb further down the chain in the circuit. This is what I suspect you are seeing. The back spike from the disconnection is bypassing over the circuit allowing for the bulb to be spiked with virtually no loss. Unlike when it is not in resonance it disapates normally with no back spike. I would say try increasing the bulb ratings and try with the relay setup but put a trimmer cap in there and see if it helps with getting that initial test to find the perfect pulse to ring that resonance, that is in the whole circuit. Once you found that perfect spot then go back to the specific capacitance if you find the value is selectable. if not then I am sure that whatever you need could be increased in quality with the trimmer caps.
If the relay adds more to the cuircuit I bet an opto isolator could be used for the same pupose as the relay. use it on a little dc motor and you should be able to get good results if adding the relay changes resonance of the ciruit.
It might be off based but I think you are onto something here. Pulsing the battery for the whole cicuit in you setup seems to take in all the resonance in the cicuit it is controlling causing the back spike to manifest when you want it. My question is does external frequency modify how it reacts. You get prety good pulsing with your hand but what happens when it is controlled by a more stable much higher frequency source. Just remember that Tesla said lower frequencies of radiant energy do bad things. 1 hz being the worst. The higher frequencies produced wierder manifestations like heat, wind and lighting effects. We also know that high voltage impulses are not very good for you and tend to disorient and cause alot of problems with the mind as well.
That being said good luck in fleshing out this manifestation.

[Aaron]

self oscillation - scope the shunt

Hi Aaron,

I'm busy with some temporary money making work at this time so I haven't done the capacitor, resistor test circuit yet.

I'll look into using only batteries and see what I can come up with.

Does self oscillation give preferable results?

Thanks

Luc

Hi Luc,

Absolutely the self oscillation takes everything to the next level. It is easy to get it into self oscillation and what TK is showing is 100% complete fraud. The "false triggering" is supposed to happen when the mosfet is in self oscillation. I posted some references showing that this is very well known in the industry and that there are components with build in safe guards in some of them to prevent false triggering so that they don't go into self oscillation! lol

Also, TK is not showing what needs to be shown. While it is in self oscillation, the shunt resistor can be scoped to prove conclusively that while in the "false triggerng" self oscillating mode, the battery is being chopped at high frequency.

We can see the triangle waveform on top of 0, which proves the battery is delivering a pulse and a negative spike to follow showing energy coming back to the battery!

This is what TK doesn't want you or anyone else to see and wants everyone to be involved with running a dog and pony show instead of doing real experiments.

[gyula]

Hi Dave,

Thanks again for your efforts on the schematics and also describing your findings. Unfortunately I cannot explain why exactly the flashes happen by disconnecting the wires at points A or the +9V input, sorry for this. It seems as if the voltage in the capacitor in the Bedini circuit suddenly increases as if a load were reduced on it somehow.
Now I try to answer some of your unclear findings:

just before work last night, i put an LED in series with the bulb...the LED lit up no matter which way round i inserted it, again not sure what this implies..

This means there are both positive and negative pulses (kind of AC voltages) across the coil and they are higher than the LED forward voltage drop.

with the LED as it is in the diagram...both bulb & LED are lit (LED is VERY bright, bulb is maybe 40% or so), when i disconnect the negative lead...BOTH bulb & LED flash.....however...

when i turn the diode the other way around...the LED is lit (but not nearly as bright as above) but the bulb is not lit....and when i disconnect the negative lead...obviously the bulb does not flash..and neither does the LED.

Well, with LED and diode as shown in diagram, the flyback pulse is driving current via them and the bulb (Flyback is able drive a higher current) and when you turn the diode direction, the opposite polarity voltage (wrt the flyback pulse) is still able to feed the LED but not enough for lighting the bulb.

with the LED as it is in the diagram, the standing volts on the bedini cap is 107V..with the LED the other way around the standing volts on the cap is 103V

with the LED as in the diagram, but with TWO bulbs....one either side of the LED.......all three are lit ( LED very bright )...all 3 flash... standing volts = 108V... turn the LED around.....LED is lit (not too bright at all ) neither bulb is lit.standing volts = 103V

Strange thing is you reduced the effect of the load by using the second bulb in series (their resistances are added, hence their load on the coil is smaller), this explains the slightly higher voltage in the capacitor you refer to below.

with all as above with diode in direction as diagram and two bulbs, 1 either side.....but using analog meter to measure volts of bedini CAP....standing = 107/108 same as above.... now im going to try and see how much the needle moves for each "flash"...basically...4V maybe 5V

dabbing the negative lead on & off at maybe 4-5 timeas a second to produce flashes.the voltage on cap is about 95V, fluctuating obviously.but basicvally around the 90V area.

The changing voltage levels you refer to here and also when the flashes occur can only be seen with reasonable accuracy by an oscilloscope, the mechanical "lazyness" of the needle of analog meters cannot follow quick voltage level changes, as you also mentioned.

This is all I could comment now, sorry of little help on this.

rgds, Gyula

[rave154]

Gyula,

thanks for the input, im going to have something eat...and get cracking again ;-)

be back soon

[rave154]

am i getting my numbers mixed up here...?

my bedini running alone... analog ameter from run battery giving 125mA input to bedini circuit with battery at 12.89 volts...

i have a 220uF charging cap...with a 240V, 214 Ohm bulb across the cap, the voltage reads 28V

so input watts = 12.89 x .125 = 1.61 watts

output current = 28 / 214ohm = 0.131 amps

out watts = 28 * 0.131 = 3.66 watts

surely i have made a simple error here?????????? what is it?

David. D

[gyula]

Hi David,

Your bulb resistance of 214 Ohm is a cold resistance and it is higher when it is heated by current, hence you HAVE TO measure the the actual current flowing through it by inserting an ampermeter in series with it.
I suggest you never use lamps as loads when performing meaningful power measurements, they are highly nonlinear devices and the power consumed by them changes immediatly nonlinearly when the voltage across them changes. A normal high wattage resistor is a preferred choice but here caution should also exercised to test whether such a normally linear resistor also increases its resistance when starts warming up due to dissipation....

So the best to remedy your 'simple mistake' is to measure the DC current flowing into your bulb when you also know the voltage level is 26V in the capacitor, from which the bulb is fed, then you may use 26V times current to arrive at the power dissipated by the lamp.

rgds, Gyula

[rave154]

Thanks for the input gyula :-) makes a lot of sense

GOT ( & others ),..

leaving the bedini, DC GEN thing alone for a while and going back to the simple bedini circuit powering a cap which powers the GOTO circuit..

i just tried the magnet on the coil as you did GOTO, and sure enough..when i flipped the switch to recycle the flyback into the coil the magnet levitated and when i turned the switch off the magnet dropped back down. thereby giving evidence that there is an increased nagnetic field in the coil with the addition of flyback...but the question i asked myself was this...

is this increase in magnetic field in the coil actually caused directly by the flyback???........it shouldnt be...because were told that HV flyback has little or no current and since it is current and not voltage that induces a megnetic field..the flyback should NOT induce any magnetic field..

removing the "output" bulb...and replacing it with another coil....so now i have two coils...first one as normal recieving the flyback.and the second coil with a magnet on top.

if the switch is set to NOT recycle flyback..when i run the circuit...there is absolutely no effect on the magnet sitting on top of the 2nd coil, however....when the switch for recycling flyback is turned on ...and then i run the circuit....immediately the magnet goes flying down into the core of the 2nd coil like a ferret down a rabbit hole !!!

is this proof that indeed flyback CAN induce a magnetic field?

i just placed a 3rd coil in parallel with the 2nd and did the magnet test...no movemnt on the magnet as far as i could see or feel.

placing the 3rd coil in series with the 2nd, no movment again on ther magnet on EITHER 2nd or 3rd coil.

and finally, going back to having jusst a 2nd coil in the place of where the output bulb was.....

this time i placed the magnet inside the core resting on the desk...when i turn on the circuit with flyback recycling the magnet moves BUT..when i disconnect the power to the pwm...guess what happens?.,youve guessed it...the megnet jumps right up with a boost...just like the flash on the bulb.




David. D

[Joit]

HV flyback has little or no current

The BEMF can have equal Power, what you pump in till the Magnetfield do change or collapse.
Sometimes its only the timing importend.
That depends at the direction of windings and the direction, wich End at the Coil you put the Diode in.