1 Joule of Energy

[Aaron]

non-equilibrium thermodynamic systems sweep the world with unstoppable momentum

@Aron: As for an open system There is no such thing. Especially in nature.

This is all I need to see that you are spreading disinformation and you slap legitimate science in the face. If you told that to the top physicists in the world, they would chase you away at the drop of a hat.

Nature is the prime example of open systems and what you are saying is complete nonsense. I have posted real references to links that take you to everywhere from Nobel material to govt agencies, to schools, etc... that all describe the open systems that I describe...in the same way..

No open systems especially in nature?

EDIT - I think you should be able to challenge the references I posted above, feel free to rebuttal all of them. You can post a youtube video, I'm posting serious references to the top academia in physics, biology, etc... in the world. They'll all tell you the same thing.

@Binzer Bob,

Go look at the credentialed, established references on non-equilibrium systems. I don't see evidence that you have comprehended the difference. The joule we put in is ALREADY USED UP after it was lifted. Any work after that is from the gravity that adds to our work and each bounce gets less and less (because there is of course dissipation in open systems)...and each bounce after we let go is work to be added to what we input to the system. Over 1.0 cop.

[Aaron]

expanded mind

The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

[ABCStore]

It's called "oligophrenia". Just kidding...

Please define "work"

ABC

[Aaron]

work

Potential energy moving from one potential to another potential is energy. When energy is demonstrated, that is work as long as it took time to do it, which of course lifting an apple from ground to 20cm will take time.

Lifting an a small apple to 20 cm over x period of time takes 1 joule of energy and a joule is a measurement of work.

Potential energy dissipating is work and there is dissipation because of resistance against gravity in lifting the apple. If there is no resistance, there is no work. That is why in free fall, there is no work being done on the way down.

It takes 1 joule of work to lift the apple to 20 cm. Once the apple is lifted to 20cm, 1 joule of WORK has been done. That one joule of work, we're not getting back no matter what. 1 joule of WORK worth of potential energy has been expended to lift the apple to that height. After it is at 20cm, 1 joule has gone bye bye and dissipated into the environment - never to be seen again.

If there is any potential stored in the apple at 20cm, that means

A - It really took less than 1 joule to lift it. Therefore, the required amount of work as the math shows is completely wrong.

B - The math was right and 1 joule really was required to lift it to 20cm, meaning 1 joule is dissipated. Therefore, ANY potential that can be put to work from this point on enters the system from the environment and the systems grows since a new potential difference (gradient) has been established. ANY work that the apple will experience is work ABOVE AND BEYOND what our initial 1 joule caused.

It is just a simple common sense concept called LEVERAGE. We are leveraging a small amount of input to cause more and more work to be done that we don't have to pay for.

I see who asks the same things over and over. I see who makes moot points that don't address anything that I have said. I'm not saying you are doing this in your post ABC, but anyone that wants to continue to try to debunk open systems has already lost. Thousands of people around the world are already rapidly learning the facts about open systems being the only thermodynamics that relates to any natural system.

The more people try to debunk it, THE MORE POTENTIAL IS ADDED and that gives more life to it. Anyone that doesn't want people to know the truth should be non-responsive so that there is no more attention given to it.

The more counter claims there are, the more the mountain of legitimacy grows for non-equilibrium systems as the only thing accomplished is that it constantly flushes out the truth.

I know what work is and the time variable is irrelevant. As some tried to obfuscate the issue by constantly hammering the time variable. The reason it is totally irrelevant to the concept is that if the apple is lifted in one nano-second to 20cm or it takes an entire year to lift it to 20cm, that is still only 1 joule (second, month, year, milisecond, etc...). Changing the time doesn't change the fact that it is still only 1 joule. The only thing the time changes is the energy density.

To see a response claiming there are no open systems in nature is so astoundingly mind-blowing there almost aren't any words for it.

When I actually post links to references that lead to the top universities, govts, etc... that discuss exactly what I'm talking about and it is totally ignored and their conversation continues as if nothing happened, that isn't a discussion. It is simply an example of deep problems that are responsible for the "crisis" that we are in right now.

[Aaron]

non-equilibrium thermodynamic systems taught at prestigeous universities

Nonequilibrium thermodynamics - Encyclopedia of Humanthermodynamics

Let's see, below are references to Oxford University Press, Harvard University Press, Dover, Richard Feinman, Ilya Prigogine, etc...

None of those references are from the Perpetual Motion Nutcase Press. I wonder why those universities are involved in academic works dealing with non-equilibrium thermodynamics???

AND do we see what some are in reference to?

NET systems with energy efficiency and diets??? That is in reference to HUMAN biology. A natural system, which is an OPEN non-equilibrium system.

Let's see... LIFE, EARTH, BIOENERGETICS, BIOPHYSICS, wow, all dealing with natural living systems...OPEN systems...NON-EQUILIBRIUM SYSTEMS!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonequilibrium thermodynamics

In thermodynamics, nonequilibrium thermodynamics is the study of systems out of equilibrium or not in thermal equilibrium and their evolution with time. [1] Synonyms include “thermodynamics of irreversible processes”, non-equilibrium thermodynamics, far-from-equilibrium thermodynamics, among other variants. The “founding fathers” of nonequilibrium thermodynamics, a field emerging between 1931 and 1947, are Norwegian-born American physical chemist Lars Onsager (1931), German theoretical physicist Josef Meixner (1941), Belgian chemist Ilya Prigogine (1947), and Austrian-born Danish theoretical physicist Peter Mazur (1950s). [5] A defining publication in this field is the 1962 book Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics by Danish theoretical physicists Sybren de Groot and Mazur, de Groot's graduate student. [6]

Near-equilibrium

See main: Near-equilibrium thermodynamics

The nonequilibrium thermodynamical study of systems “close to equilibrium”, i.e. close enough for a linear relationship to be assumed between assumed between observed fluxes and the forces that cause them is often referred to as “linear thermodynamics of irreversible process” a field initiated by Belgian mathematical physicist Théophile de Donder beginning in 1918 followed by the work of Lars Onsager in 1931. [2] Nonequilibrium systems near thermal equilibrium are described by the Onsager relations.

Far-from-equilibrium
When the linear hypothesis begins to reveal limitations, such as, for instance, in the "far-from-equilibrium" heat flow range, as in the phenomenon of of Bénard cell formation, in the study of various aberant chemical reactions, or in the case of oscillating reactions, a “non-linear thermodynamics of irreversible processes” is said to define this subject of study, as developed by Belgian chemist Ilya Prigogine, beginning in the 1945. [3] One of the earliest reports of an oscillating reaction, was the reported the periodic "flaring up" of phosphorus in contact with the air, in the seventeenth century, by English-Irish chemist Robert Boyle. [4] A modern example of an oscillating reaction is the Belousov-Zhabotinsky oscillating reaction (1950s).

References
1. Daintith, John. (2005). Oxford Dictionary of Physics. Oxford University Press.
2. Perrot, P. (1998). A to Z of Thermodynamics. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
3. Prigogine, Ilya. (1945). Etude Thermodynamics des Phenomenes Irreversibles (Study of the Thermodynamics of Irreversible Phenomenon). Presented to the science faculty at the Free University of Brussels (1945); Paris: Dunod, 1947.
4. Oscillating Reactions (Science Encycopedia) - Science.JRank.org
5. Peter Mazur: Obituary, 1922-2001.
6. (a) de Groot, S.R. and Mazur, Peter. (1962). Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics. New York: Dover.
(b) Sybren Ruurds de Groot – Mathematics Genealogy Project.

Further reading
● Katchalsky, A. and Curran, Peter F. (1965). Nonequilibrium Thermodynamics in Biophysics. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press.
● Caplan, Roy S. and Essig Alvin. (1983). Bioenergetics and Linear Nonequilibrium Thermodynamics. Cambridge: London: Harvard University Press.
● Muschik, Wolfgang. (2001). "A Sketch of Continuum Thermodynamics", J. Non-Newtonian Fluid Mech. 96, 255-290.
● Kleidon, Axel, and Lorenz, Ralph D. (2004). Non-equilibrium Thermodynamics and the Production of Entropy: Life, Earth, and Beyond. Springer.
● Feinman, Richard D., and Fine, Eugene J. (2007). “Nonequilibrium Thermodynamics and Energy Efficiency in Weight Loss Diets.” Theoretical Biology and Medial Modeling, 4:27.

[Aaron]

biology

http://home.iitk.ac.in/~osegu/NonEquilThermo.pdf
Department of Biological Sciences, University of Alberta



2 Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics: How It Works

2.1 The 2nd Law

The second law of thermodynamics asserts that if a spontaneous reaction occurs,
the reaction moves towards an irreversible state of equilibrium and in the process,
becomes increasingly random or disordered. It is this increasing disorder or entropy of a
system that forces a spontaneous reaction to persist; but, once a system attains maximum
entropy or equilibrium, the spontaneous reaction ceases to continue. For example, if a
glass of hot liquid is placed in a colder room a flow of heat is spontaneously produced
from the cup to the room until it is minimised (or the entropy is maximised) at which
point the temperatures are the same (a state of equilibrium) and all flows stop. But, why
do spontaneous reactions always move towards ever increasing entropy and ultimately
equilibrium?
To solve the equilibrium paradigm of the second law, Ludwig Boltzmann, one
of the great theorists of classical thermodynamics, contrived a simple, yet ingenious,
thought experiment. Suppose you have a box, bisected down the centre by an imaginary
line, and eight distinguishable molecules (Figure 1). How many ways are there to
arrange the molecules on the left and right side of the partition?

Crossing Boundaries – an interdisciplinary journal
VOL 1, No 2 - Spring 2002
51

Figure 1 Boltzmann's thought experiment demonstrating the probability of
disorder. (From Capra, 1996 p. 187)
One Arrangement only
(highest order)
8 Different Arrangements
28 Different Arrangements
70 Different Arrangements
(maximum disorder)
First, all the molecules can be arranged on one side of the box in only one way
(highly organized). However, there are eight possible different arrangements if seven
molecules are placed on the left side of the box and one molecule is placed on the right.
This example illustrates how the number of possible arrangements increases as the
differences between the left and right sides of the box becomes smaller, until eventually,
the left and right sides equalize (equilibrium) and the number of possible arrangements
reaches seventy (highly disorganized) (Capra, 1996). In other words, the entropy of a
system is always increasing because it is more probable that a system will be disordered
than ordered.
Boltzmann referred to all the possible arrangements of a system as
‘complexions’ and equated them with the concept of order (Capra, 1996). Basically, the
more complexions within a system, the further that system is from being ordered. But,
this connection between increasing disorder and complexity contradicts the essence of
biological organisms; the living world is characterized by increasing order and
complexity. As a result, biological systems must be functioning at a state far from
equilibrium. This observation has lead to the development of non-equilibrium
thermodynamics (Wicken, 1979; Brooks and Wiley, 1982)

2.2 Non-equilibrium Thermodynamics

2.2.1 Dissipation and Self-Organization

How are biological organisms able to self-organize and maintain their life
processes far from equilibrium? The answer to this essential question is found in the
theory of ‘dissipative structures’ (Capra, 1996).

Dissipative structures are open systems,
they need a continual input of free energy from the environment in order to maintain the
capacity to do ‘work’. It is this continual flux of energy, into and out of a dissipative
structure, which leads towards self-organization and ultimately the ability to function at a
state of non-equilibrium.

A famous example of a self-organizing, dissipative structure is
the spontaneous organization of water due to convection (Figure 2).
Figure 2: The spontaneous organization of water due to convection: once convection
begins and the dissipative structure forms a pattern of hexagonal Bénard cells
appear. (From Capra, 1996 p. 87)
If you take a thin layer of water, at uniform temperature, and start heating it
from the bottom, a strange ordered structure begins to appear. As the temperature
between the bottom and top of the water reaches a critical level, the water begins to move
away from an equilibrium state and an instability within the system develops. At this
point, convection commences and the dissipative structure forms. As heat is transferred
through the liquid, a patterned hexagonal or ‘honey combed’ shape emerges (Bénard
cells) and the capacity to do ‘work’ is realized (life). But, as soon as the energy source
(heat) is taken away, the ordered pattern disappears and the water returns to an
equilibrium state (death).
Just like the convection of water, biological organisms are also self-organizing
dissipative structures, they take in and give off energy from the environment in order
sustain life processes and in doing so function at a state of non-equilibrium (Figure 3).
Although biological organisms maintain a state far from equilibrium they are still
controlled by the second law of thermodynamics. Like all physiochemical systems,
biological systems are always increasing their entropy or complexity due to the
overwhelming drive towards equilibrium. But, unlike physiochemical systems,
biological systems possess ‘information’ that permits them to self-replicate and
continuously amplify their complexity and organization through time (Brooks and Wiley,
1986).

[Aaron]

open dissipative systems

Again,

How are biological organisms able to self-organize and maintain their life
processes far from equilibrium? The answer to this essential question is found in the
theory of ‘dissipative structures’ (Capra, 1996).

Dissipative structures are open systems,
they need a

continual input of free energy from the environment in order to maintain the
capacity to do ‘work’.

It is this continual flux of energy, into and out of a dissipative
structure, which leads towards self-organization and ultimately the ability to function at a
state of non-equilibrium.

[Aaron]

natural systems

Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

Article
Non Equilibrium Thermodynamics and the City: A New Approach to Urban Studies
Riccardo Maria Pulselli, Francesca Ciampalini, Alessandro Galli, Federico Maria PulselliDepartment of Chemical and Biosystems Sciences, University of Siena, Italy Via della Diana, 2A - 53100 - Siena, Italy. Tel. 0577 232044
email: Riccardo Maria Pulselli (pulselli@unisi.it) Federico Maria Pulselli (pulselli@unisi.it)setDOI("ADOI=10.1002/adic.200690056")AbstractA city can be conceived as a complex self-adaptive system. The multiple interactions among its structural elements and dynamic agents, its organization on multiple time-space scales, its exchanges with the external context, its irreversible dynamics, are signs of complexity. Some concepts from the evolutionary thermodynamics, such us the theory of dissipative structures, could be extended to the city in order to investigate its behaviour. This theoretical framework suggests to analyze the city in terms of entropy and negentropy production. An emergy analysis (spelled with an m) of an urban region is presented in order to investigate how cities maintain their organization (and decrease their entropy) by virtue of constant energy inflows from the external environment. As a result, a non-homogeneous spatial pattern of emergy density is shown as an attempt to investigate the multiple relations and energy exchanges that take place in an urban region. This approach to urban studies introduces a new energy-based vision to understand cities.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nonequilibrium Thermodynamics - Elsevier

NONEQUILIBRIUM THERMODYNAMICS

Transport and Rate Processes in Physical, Chemical and Biological Systems
"For a copy of the Solution Manual please contact Dr. Demirel: ydemirel2@unlnotes.unl.edu"
To order this title, and for more information, click here
Second Edition

By
Yasar Demirel, University of Nebraska Lincoln, USA

Description
Natural phenomena consist of simultaneously occurring transport processes and chemical reactions. These processes may interact with each other and lead to instabilities, fluctuations, and evolutionary systems. The objective of this book is to explore the unifying role of thermodynamics in natural phenomena. Nonequilibrium Thermodynamics, Second Edition analyzes the transport processes of energy, mass, and momentum transfer processes, as well as chemical reactions. It considers various processes occurring simultaneously, and provides students with more realistic analysis and modelling by accounting for possible interactions. This second edition updates and expands most of the chapters of the first edition by focusing on the balance equations of mass, momentum, energy, and entropy together with the Gibbs equation for coupled processes of physical, chemical, and biological systems.

--------------------------------------------------

[Aaron]

Journal of Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics, GEORGETOWN

Journal of Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics

JOURNAL OF NON-EQUILIBRIUM THERMODYNAMICS

Walter de Gruyter - Natural Sciences - Journals - Journal of Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics

Publisher: Walter de Gruyter

The JOURNAL OF NON-EQUILIBRIUM THERMODYNAMICS serves as an
international publication organ for new ideas, insights and results on
non-equilibrium phenomena in science, engineering and related natural
systems. The central aim of the journal is to provide a bridge between
science and engineering and to promote scientific exchange on
- newly observed non-equilibrium phenomena
- analytic or fuzzy models for their interpretation
- new methods to describe non-equilibrium phenomena.

The journal addresses mechanical, chemical, and biochemical engineers,
physicists, chemists and applied mathematicians, as well as
computational scientists. Contributions should present novel approaches
to analyzing, modeling and optimizing processes of engineering
relevance such as transport processes of mass, momentum and energy,
separation of fluid phases, reproduction of living cells, and many
others. Highest priority is given to contributions which add to the
basic understanding of non-equilibrium phenomena in engineering and
related natural systems.

The journal publishes scholarly research papers, invited review
articles, short communications and “comment-and-reply-notes” on papers
already published.

ISSN 0340-0204
ISSN (Internet) 1437-4358

Publication frequency: quarterly

Price per volume, print (includes online-edition at no additional
charge) or online only: Euro 678,-; US$ 700.00

Single issue Euro 170,-; US$ 175.00

Managing Editor: Stephanie Dawson E-mail: jnet.editorial@degruyter.de

Date: 17 Dec 2003

[Aaron]

non-equilibrium thermodynamic systems describe free energy machines

Any denying the fact that it is non-equilibrium thermodynamics that describes natural systems will simply result in me posting dozens, or even hundreds of references - I will simply bury any opposition to free energy in FACTS.

Anyone can claim this is just my idea, theory, or concepts Bearden is talking about but what is ignored is that Bearden is pointing to all the same references! lol

I became aware of it from Prigogine references in a health book way back and was surprised to see the connection to ALL open systems and not just biological.

Bedini's system is open, mechanical oscillators are open, Rosemary's over 17 COP circuit is open, Peter's attraction motor is open, Imhotep's oscillator is open, an apple being rasied and let go of is open, a bouncing ball is open.

There is no denying the truth anymore. These systems have always been over 1.0 COP and the problem isn't with "there aren't any free energy devices"...WOW - they're all over the place!

As a collective mankind, we need to grow up and realize the facts that classical closed system thermodynamics have NEVER described natural systems, ever! Virtually every single natural system is OPEN.

Applying classical analysis to any open system is as futile as making dehydrated water!

Open system technologies have always been here, COP is the CORRECT measurement of work out compared to work in, and there is nothing anyone can do to change that.

And, a bouncing ball is over 1.0 COP.

See them beer mugs? Only the loss is necessary to be input to sustain their happy time.

[Aaron]

spoon that bends

Classically trained EE's to my understanding are never taught about NET systems. But they can be qualified to analyze them if they have a working knowledge of non-equilibrium thermodynamic systems...open dissipative structures. A magnetic coil is an open system even if the input and output is closed to a battery because the magnetic field interacts with its environment, (space, time, gravity, etc...).

It is an absolutely paradigm shattering principle that becomes waaaay common sense after the fact.

Actually, mechanical engineers are usually the quickest to catch on compared to EE's because they don't have the flawed electrical theories to get in the way. They don't have to unlearn things that aren't relevant to open systems. It is a matter of looking at the mechanics of the situation and then it just makes sense.

I'm not saying classical closed system thinking isn't useful, but it is only relevant to closed system.

When my book, The Quantum Key, mentions it is about paradigm shattering principles, I wasn't kidding. I think so far my book may be the only one in the world that shows what this is all about in terms the layman (me) can understand. Along with my model of gravity, inertia, time, etc...

When classical analysis looks at an open circuit, it won't ever see what is really happening. When understanding the distinctions between the vastly different two types of systems (open and closed), then suddenly all the gains become common sense.

----------------------

Boy: Do not try to bend the spoon; that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.Neo: What truth?Boy: There is no spoon.Neo: There is no spoon?Boy: Then you will see, it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.----------------------

The spoon not bending is an open system being analyzed with classical viewpoint. When realizing the truth, the veil is lifted and the gain is apparent.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi Aaron, really good stuff here and part of your quote here says it all, "As a collective mankind, we need to grow up". You know this isnt about technology its about the spiritual waking up of people it seems to me, granted I understand a lot of people are in fear about how they will pay rent, buy food, yada yada. But lets face facts, the reason the so called power brokers don't want open systems applied to all technologies is because there ink paper printing machines will start to lose there power and possibly bring us closer to a world that would not need such intermediary exchange methods between humans and thus no efficient means to control the masses. Of course I am sure your already aware of this, me, I've had about enough of this fear based, scarcity wired world. Folks, let me tell it to you straight, if you lack food, shelter, or any basic necessities it's because some humans on this world want it that way, enough of this blaming each other garbage and yourselves. I notice how when big corporations want something done, man its like the hand of god comes down and instantly gets the job done, so there are no excuses based on that kind of performance for humanity to be suffering. Sorry for the rant, needed to vent.
Anyway Aaron, That water wheel device is a perfect example of your falling apple analogy, you know the one where he uses the water pump to impact the water wheel and light the bulb for self sustained gravity power. Lol, seems to be the same system working together there. Made me think, why doesn't someone build a small table top toy version that would do the same thing to awaken more people to abundant energy.
peace love light

[ABCStore]

Serioulsly, take one

ABC

[Jbignes5]

The last gasp.

No matter what until you understand we live on the earth in a closed system that only have links to the other systems like the sun you'll never find the true free energy. Your energy "gain" in most devices is a brute force method much like the smack booster for hho2 production. Plain and simple we live in the closed symetry of the earths biological and physics system.
We are talking about the nano world when dealing with such energies as circuits because electricity has a way that we can modify it at will. The strange accourance of taking the output of a bemf and routing it into another coil causes that high voltage pop to manifest magnetic phenomina that is quite unexplainable and should not be there but it might also be the reason why there is so fluffy a charge left. We are trying to force the situation when it should be manipulated to our benefit.
I am now kinda agreeing with tesla's conclusions that this energy is more on par with plasma and gaseous laws. If I was to believe anyone it would be the one who had a way to see the invisible and that was Tesla. Tesla knew there was something behind it but couldn't grasp the entirety of the vision.
My link to the video would show these principles comming from a Nuclear engeneer who has not only theorized what is going on but has actual proof of his work. His explaination of the atom, the world and how they relate give simplicity to a very complex system. Including explaining how Radiant energy could propagate the way it does.
The truth is out there you just have to want to read and understand it. Maybe the concept is beyond your comprehention. Who knows. But throwing someone elses ideas without at least looking at mine is not a debate.
What was the purpose of starting this thread? To inlist a I am right you are wrong response? Vain indeed.
I stand by this information because it holds more water or energy then yours. And thats how theories work. Taking a destructive attitude twords energy generation will get you no where except a depleted world where not only is the charge fluffy but all materials as well.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi Jbignes5, I think I may be understanding what your trying to say, although no offense but I dont think your explaining yourself clearly enough. It seems maybe that you agree with Aaron that an extra energy gradient that could be used is manifested with the Aarons apple falling to the ground example, but it seems you just have an issue with the definition that its somehow separate or outside of or an open system as if not interconnected. Thats what I am getting from your words, is that you want people to understand that everything is actually a closed interlinked system and that useful energy can be had in excess of what we apply but it is not separate or open as if to say it is not interlinked. I hope I am understanding your view point correctly, so how in your words would you describe the electric motor water pump spraying high pressure water downward at a water wheel while turning a generator and powering itself and a light bulb load according to how you see natures systems working. The device i speak of, there was a video on youtube i forget the name of the device or the individuals name, maybe someone can find a link. thanks.
peace love light