Inductive Circuits - The "Classical" Approach

[poynt99]

Before discussing anything directly about this subject, I would like to ask any individuals that have a "new age" slant on these topics, a question pertaining to "Capacitive Overunity Circuits".

To start, surely all would agree that inductors and capacitors are true opposites, or as one person says "mirror images of each other". Also, check out his circuit half way down the page....looks quite familiar. Odd he hasn't discovered any overunity in his testing

Here's the question:

If inductive circuits (particularly the inductive kickback type) are perceived and apparently metered to exhibit COP>1, then please illustrate an example of a complementary capacitive circuit that does the same.

.99

[morpher44]

coilpacitor

If inductive circuits (particularly the inductive kickback type) are perceived and apparently metered to exhibit COP>1, then please illustrate an example of a complementary capacitive circuit that does the same.
.99

I was just ranting about this in my coilpacitor thread.

It seems to me that if the capacitor is built INSIDE of the coil,
that it can benefit from the charges that move back and forth
due to the influences of the alternating magnetic field.
Some of those charges spinning around the coil will LAND
on the plates and enter the circuit.

It seems to me that coils and capacitors should be married as it where.

Or, if you can create a magnetic vortex that SPINS charges,
Lamor precession, down to the plates of your capacitor,
the charge Q can grow w/o the influence of the closed circuit
the capacitor is attached to. This would have the affect
of making the reactance XC drop a bit in ohmage -- like
a negative resistance.
But really what is happening is charges are arriving to the capacitor
FROM outside the circuit.

Here is an experiment I did with two coilpacitors. Very crude .. but
I could demonstrate a current flow between the capacitors.

YouTube - Dual Coilpacitor Experiment

[rave154]

mind reader

you must be a mind reader ( or a dream-reader)!!!!


i just read your post on the "Inductive Circuits - The "Classical" Approach " thread where you said " if only we could make a coil inside a capacitor " ( or vice versa....welll guess what....

last night, before sleeping i was pondering coils & flyback & capacitors and how we use the cap to store the flyback to then DO something with it... i thought "if only the coil were actually PART of the capacitor (and vice versa ) "....in other words..... not a coil wrapped around a cap.....or a cap connected to a coil.......but both part of the same device...

i dreamed the following...

what is a cap?.... two conductors..1 insulator..in layers


what is a coil?...well....its a coil of wire in a spiral.....right?......yes.....but thats not ALL it is.... think about the wire...plastic coated wire... an insulator..with conducting wire inside.....the coil is already a cap....but how to merge the coil with an actuall hand built cap??

see attatchment...

the coil could be connected in series with the cap but it would also be PART OF the cap.... or in parallel..... any number of weird & wonderful ways.....could even put the whole lot inside a bigger spacier coil wound at right angles to the first coil....all sorts of permutations.

hope this helps

David. D

[Inquorate]

Tesla pancake coil

YouTube - Comparison of Tesla Bifilar and Pancake Coils

If the pancake coil is Bifilar, it's magnetic field cancels itself out, and creates scalar waves.

What does everyone think?

Certainly it isn't explainable by 'conventional electronic theory'

Love and light

[rave154]

INQ,

im not sure if what im about to say is relevent to what you just said.......but...here goes.....i just spit out my thoughts and people can make of 'em what they want.,..


i noticed, while using GOTLUCS recycling BEMF circuit.......while it was running.....if i inserted a core of welding rods into the middle of the coil, the "effect" ( for want of a better term ) was diminished.

Damn.... its making me wonder about what tesla said about "iron".....that it was to become more important than any other material.....im wondering if we should be using iron wire in our coils.......and not copper wire ( ED Leedskalnin anybody !?!?!!??!?!? )

Hope this helps

David. D

[MileHigh]

David:

May I suggest some searching. Look for information on what the magnetic field looks like around a long piece of straight wire with a DC current running through it. Then go and look at how that translates into how a coil generates a magnetic field. Then look up permeability and saturation and how that relates to putting a piece of iron inside a coil.

What is an inductor? The simplest answer is that it is a piece of wire. A one mm piece of straight wire is an inductor.

If you spend some time doing this basic research you should come to the realization that it doesn't matter if the wire is made of iron or copper. On a deeper level you should realize that it doesn't really make sense to even pose the question.

MileHigh

[poynt99]

INQ,

im not sure if what im about to say is relevent to what you just said.......but...here goes.....i just spit out my thoughts and people can make of 'em what they want.,..


i noticed, while using GOTLUCS recycling BEMF circuit.......while it was running.....if i inserted a core of welding rods into the middle of the coil, the "effect" ( for want of a better term ) was diminished.

Damn.... its making me wonder about what tesla said about "iron".....that it was to become more important than any other material.....im wondering if we should be using iron wire in our coils.......and not copper wire ( ED Leedskalnin anybody !?!?!!??!?!? )

Hope this helps

David. D

The inductance of the coil will be greatly enhanced by inserting something such as iron into the core. Any material with a higher permeability than air will do this.

Increased inductance also carries with it an increased tau (L/R), so you are going to have to increase the pulse width and/or lower the frequency accordingly to get your big spikes back again.

rave154, Inquorate, morpher44, Aaron, Rosemary, Harvey et al: if you subscribe to the new age (NA) view of inductive circuits and the belief that those such as Rosemary's exhibit COP>1, how could a similar circuit be built using a capacitor as the main circuit element, as opposed to an inductor? Please also explain the OU mechanism involved in a similar fashion that has been used to describe the "effect" in the inductive counterpart circuit.

Anyone?

.99

[poynt99]

The Inductive Circuit

Here's something to get it started. This is the inductive circuit.

Now, who can come up with an explanation for OU of this circuit, and also a circuit employing a capacitor as per the original question in the first post?

From the attached diagram below:

- When SW1 is ON, Icoil = Iswitch. Idiode = 0.
- When SW1 turns OFF, Iswitch goes to 0, and Icoil = Idiode.
- During this OFF phase, Idiode can either recirculate back into the coil (SW2 = A) (creating additional heat), or it can be used to charge or power any external component located in place of "Bcharge" above (SW2 = B).
- If during the OFF phase SW2 is left in the middle OPEN position as shown, the voltage across the coil/resistor will "spike" to a large inverted amplitude then oscillate at the resonant frequency in a damped fashion until all the energy is dissipated within Rcoil. The resonant oscillation occurs due to the parasitic inter-winding capacitance (sometimes referred to as "self-capacitance) of the coil which forms a tank circuit with the inductor.
- The "tau" time constant of this particular inductor/resistor combination is 864ns. The inductor will be energized to about 90% after 5 time constants, equating to a total time of 4.32us. Any power applied to this circuit for longer than about 4.32us is wasted energy and is equivalent to DC heating of the coil/resistor. Using a pulse width of 15.42us (3.7% of 2.4kHz) as shown above, equates to about 72% wasted energy. If the goal is to utilize "reactive" effects only, then the pulse width applied by users of this circuit would need to adjust their drive circuits to achieve a pulse width of between 4-5us. This equates to about a 1.2% duty cycle at 2.4kHz.

.99

[wantfreeenergy]

I've wanted to say this and I suppose there could be better places to state it.

It is my strong belief that all the "inventions" that work today only work because the people that created them had a belief they would work.

Here's where it get new age, "or perhaps old age". If a person were to have the belief that they could pick up a battery, and lets say.... give it a shake over here....give it a shake over there.... then they could have that battery create energy that would shock non believers. And comparing that battery to other batteries of the same type this one would be noticeably different. What I am really wanting to say is, with the proper belief we could take a AAA battery and use it to produce the power needed to power any house or electrical device. Simply creating circuits and such is a medium or buffer or mediary or something in the middle, for our beliefs to attach to so that we can believe and get the results we want.

Not like that is gonna help, but I believe we need to start at the source and then we can have what we want.

[poynt99]

Just the facts Jack

If we can folks, let's keep this technical ok?

Beliefs and philosophy isn't going to root out the operating principles of these circuits.

Facts and their backing empirical evidence is what truly counts here.

.99

[Michelinho]

YouTube - Comparison of Tesla Bifilar and Pancake Coils

If the pancake coil is Bifilar, it's magnetic field cancels itself out, and creates scalar waves.

What does everyone think?

Certainly it isn't explainable by 'conventional electronic theory'

Love and light

In the Tesla bifilar coil, the magnetic field cancels itself out? It cancels itself out if the two inner ends are connected together as the current is made to travel in opposite direction. As connected like Tesla patent, the magnetic field is enhance and it also gains capacitive properties.

morpher44:

It seems to me that coils and capacitors should be married as it where.

The Tesla bifilar coil has capacitive properties according to Tesla own words.


Or did I get my facts wrong? Which formula is used for the Tesla's bifilar coil? I made a search last night and came up empty.

Michel

[poynt99]

A Couple Additional Points

In the posted circuit diagram, we should not forget about the small dissipation in the flyback diode as well. Most of the energy will be dissipated as heat in Rcoil, but some in the diode too during the OFF phase when it is conducting.

Note also that even when SW2 is in the B position, i.e. the flyback energy is supplying power to an external load such a a charge battery, the return path is still at the +'ve side of the coil, which will again cause additional heat in Rcoil. Not as much this time, but additional nonetheless.

.99

[gyula]

Hi poynt99,

Though I wait for any meaningful report on this inductive circuit, I do not think conventional EM theory is able to explain any COP>1 possibility should it occur...

Regarding a capacitive version, Bearden occurs to me, referring to a so called stepwise charging of a capacitor, see here:
Additional Information On The Final Secret Of Free Energy

quote
...Rigorously one can use a normal capacitor as the collector, if one step-charges it in several hundred small incremental rectangular voltage steps (stair-step-charging). The proof that this can freely charge a capacitor with energy, without having to do appreciable work, is already known in the literature. You can charge the capacitor without entropy and essentially without drawing electron mass current. [Ref 2,Ref 3,Ref 4,Ref 5]
unquote

I also refer to a thread on overunity.com where a member wrote: ...discharging a capacitor in a coil is the real source for free energy..., see here:
Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!

Unfortunately he does not seem to share his findings (if they are real, I hope they are, lol).

rgds, Gyula

[poynt99]

I would agree Gyula,

that conventional EM theory may not be able to explain "overunity effects".

However, if one does not possess an understanding of conventional EM, how dos one know the difference between conventional and unconventional effects?

Thanks, I had forgotten about Bearden's step-charged capacitor storage concept. He is correct in one regard, but also forgetting where the original energy came form. Yep, we can transfer energy from a battery or capacitor to another capacitor with almost no loss, but energy is still being used from the source battery or capacitor. Isn't that a huge oversight?

With Tito, I would not get too excited or worried about that one. It's the pattern/circumstance we've seen many times before.

What I'm asking about really, is an equivalent scenario to the inductive kickback circuit everyone thinks is so mysterious. The point is that there IS an equivalent capacitive circuit which complements it. I want to see if anyone can visualize and illustrate what it is, and explain how it works.

Capacitors and Inductors are truly inversions of each other, so logically there must be a circuit.

.99

[morpher44]

coil-cap marriage

The Tesla bifilar coil has capacitive properties according to Tesla own words.
Michel

Yes. All coils will have a bit of capacitance .. not just the bifilar variety.
There is a point of self-resonance which is the resontant
frequency using L & C where C is the implicit capacitance in the coil.

In terms of a marriage, though between coils and capacitors,
I was thinking more that a new design would EXPLOIT this relationship
much more seriously. Either a coil can be wrapped around a
capacitor that has inner plates that are LOW resistance
OR
the coil can be built INSIDE the capacitor with the plates OUTSIDE
the coil.

The advantages that may occur would appear in the form of
negative resistance. The frequency response at various frequencies
might show that the capacitance side of the reactance is NOT
following the traditional inverse curve predicted by the capacitance,
but rather is BENT a bit by the extra charges conveyed --
van de graff -like- on to the capacitor.

It would be ideal if you could go to your neighborhood electronics store
and buy a coilpacitor with a known resonant frequency and Q
and other specifications CLEARLY identified so that you could
design with it.