Marko Rodin

[spiritualresults]

How do you call it? Tri-ring Rodin coil?

Every toroid or donut is tri-ring. It's just the standard donut we are using has the two outer rings the same size.

I like the idea of the bottom ring being smaller than the top might yield some interesting results. Very nice and simple insight!!

Jamie

[morpher44]

shapes...

It occurs to me that those with potters wheels may have a device
that is perfect for experimenting with various
coil form shapes.

Ceramic is well known as an insulator.

These toroidal shapes are probably easily done on a potters
wheel -- can be furnaced -- glazed ... and the coil wrapping done.

So any unusually shape is probably very easily done in clay - ceramics.

Also, if its an adjustable aperture your after, perhaps the coil form
should be adjustable and the wire should be something that
can stretch ... like a rubber band.
Is there wire that is stretchy like that?
News in Science - Elastic wire stretches out like accordion - 09/08/2007

[Cloxxki]

It occurs to me that those with potters wheels may have a device
that is perfect for experimenting with various
coil form shapes.

Ceramic is well known as an insulator.

These toroidal shapes are probably easily done on a potters
wheel -- can be furnaced -- glazed ... and the coil wrapping done.

So any unusually shape is probably very easily done in clay - ceramics.

Also, if its an adjustable aperture your after, perhaps the coil form
should be adjustable and the wire should be something that
can stretch ... like a rubber band.
Is there wire that is stretchy like that?
News in Science - Elastic wire stretches out like accordion - 09/08/2007

Thank you for echoing what I've posted before (in part likely elseweher), I am sincerely honored to be proven less silly.

Yes, a central point symmetrically shaped should be easily made with clay. I proposed this to make a toroid of specific measurements. And, should a plastic hollow core be wanted, it's a matter of some molding handy work.

Elastic wire used to be my ultimate idea to get proportions nailed on a Rodin coil, before I learned of Jamie's newer winding patterns that seemed to be a bigger step than that, albeit possibly complementary. It makes room through the hole, and offers a better match to the compress-expand action of the Rodin math strips spiralling the donut. B
But really, geometry itself seems more important than execution. The 2-sided cup just looks awesome.

[Jbignes5]

Yes interesting indeed...

I agree my apiffany came from watching his videos. The idea also came from very interesting results that came from antenna theories and dealing with rf energies.
One thing I have never mentioned was the expanding apperature that was mentioned. My original thought was that since Rodin was talking about the wire should be thicker outside then inside the apperature then I could only come to one conclusion that Jamies Idea of using braided ground jacketing from cable could be used and then controlled by wires that are tightened inside the jacket to change it's shape. but that was a side thought.

Jamie do you mind me asking you to ask Mr Rodin if he could think about that he is actually mapping the field and not the coil? My original idea is of being a rigid design so no need to ask him about the variable apperature that can be saved for future designs that are more true to Mr. Rodins actual facts that he has about this. I have sooo many questions for Mr. Rodin but they will have to wait I guess. But my immediate ones would be about the mapping of the torrus field and if he thought my design of the coil was closer to his understanding of his brilliant work. The tri circle design is actually right from his anagram connected from the outside tips of the anagram. I mean it has to mean something about the shape that came out of the anagram then just a way to connect the dot to his work.

Mr. Rodin also talks about using plasma but then digresses in one of his videos like it was a side note. I think that is the key. Since there are others who thinks plasma is the underlying form of the basic energy that everything is made up of. It just might be the channel to open or draw more in. I maybe way off there but it seems to make sense if a form of invisible plasma was the substraight of everything. Tesla being the biggest supporter that Radiant energy flowed with fluidic dynamics.

Ceramic was my first choice of materials for this tri circle design but wood is more available to me to work with while making a prototype. If the results pan out then of course the next step would be ceramic since that can be a more perfect structure. Remember guys the wooden one will need a support structure much like a bridge has. That should make it alot more rigid then straight supports. that way it wont collapse while winding the coils onto the structure.

[morpher44]

Rodin science

I found a very good article on inductors:

http://pe2bz.philpem.me.uk/Comm01/-%...ing/159688.pdf

After reading this, it became very clear to me that modeling / simulating
inductors with our current state of the art tools is very very
flawed ... and requires all sorts of hacks.

The discussion in here about how the "old model" assumed
coils have an equivalent circuit of a cap, resistor and inductor --
with the cap across the resistor in series with the inductor --
is flawed and the article gives the reasons.

Numerological speaking there appear to be several rules that
involve 3 or square-root-of 3 ... the latter being very close to PHI.

It discusses how the 3 key things to know about an
inductor are:

1. SRF - self resonance
2. Q relative to frequency
3. impedance as a function of frequency

Q and impedance can be non-linear.

Spice models don't have the ability to allow for a resistance that
varies over frequency.
Doing things even more complicated such as very non-linear
performance curves ... also tough in simulation with today's tools --
and I'm surprised. Perhaps some higher-end tools offer better
ways to simulate coils in a circuit.

But ... here is the thing ...
The Rodin coil (or the various derivatives of the Rodin coil)
will exhibit properties that might be unusual as compared to
standard coil designs ... regular toroids, cylinder/solenoids, flat spiral, etc.

So to do real science here on the Rodin family of coils,
these properties will need to be measured and determined
for wire gauges, geometries, etc.

What we are looking for with the Rodin coil is some indication
that it is better or just different in some aspect of its performance
characteristics?

QUESTIONS to answer:

1. Can a larger inductance be achieved with less wire?

2. Can a larger magnetic field be achieved relative to a solenoid coil
all other things being equal -- power, dimensions, etc.?

3. Does the inductance vary over frequencies or is it mostly linear
like other coils?

4. Is SRF of a Rodin much much higher (or much lower)?

5. Is Q higher (or lower)?

6. What does impedance look like over a range of frequencies?

There are similar questions to answer if the Rodin is to be used
as a transformer or bifilar coil.

I would encourage some real science here ... and by all means
share the results if your so inclined.

[Jbignes5]

Hmm...

I didn't mean to model my design in anything but a graphics program so that others could see in a better fasion what I was trying to show. If that is what you were refering to. I know this coil is non standard and wouldn't even be able to be put in a spice simulation because there are unkown variables in the design of the Rodin coil.
But as for your points about a more scientific study I am all for that and you give some nice references of what to look for as a set of questions or points to look at. Definetly a valuable list to go down and test for.

[wwdotme]

This is my attempt at giving 3D to jbignes's drawing hope it helps.
Well it shows a bit defferent shape from a torid.

[Jbignes5]

This is my attempt at giving 3D to jbignes's drawing hope it helps.
Well it shows a bit defferent shape from a torid.

ok Great. Excellent redering. The wires I dont think are in the right geometry but good first try. Did you apply the Rodins wiring to the form? Just curious....

As to the shape it is correct for the coil I believe. The torrus shape is actually the field that it creates if we could see that magnetic field.

[Cloxxki]

This is my attempt at giving 3D to jbignes's drawing hope it helps.
Well it shows a bit defferent shape from a torid.

A thing of beauty!

Seems that it would be relatively easy for a machine shop to even make grooves in all the appropriate places, to make the winding a breeze.

I especially like how the shape the wire draws, is so close to the geometrical/mathemetical shape. So far I have seen few Rodin coils that approximated their own mathematical model.

Three hoops...a length of PVC tubing and a cone to bend around are pretty much all one needs to get started. Perhaps some "spokes" to a containing wooden box box to tension the rings with outward tension rather than inward support. With spokes and nipples, I just thought of a way to tension it from the inside, taking up little space. Long nips (thin side) into the hoops, and a bit of threaded rot (spoke) in between.

[wwdotme]

ok Great. Excellent redering. The wires I dont think are in the right geometry but good first try. Did you apply the Rodins wiring to the form? Just curious....

As to the shape it is correct for the coil I believe. The torrus shape is actually the field that it creates if we could see that magnetic field.

Without adding all the degrees for teh hoops I laid the wires very close
to the layout of the rodin coil I had built.

[wwdotme]

This does look very interesting.
Shot the hell out of me getting any thing done this weekend as
I will be trying to build this.

[rave154]

Hi all,

you could even file lil grooves into the pvc for the wires to rest in, saves all that messing about with pins.

My N42 1-inch NEO spheres came today...their strength took my breath away.

im about to wire my rodin coil up to my new Amp, which is being fed by the function generator thriugh the sound card..i wanted to ask Jamie or anybody else...

since the AMp is s'posed to be used with speakers which have an impedance of 4 Ohms or 8 Ohms...and since each winding of my coil is only 1.8 Ohms... would wiring a 6 Ohm resistor in series with the coil winding to bring it up to about 8 Ohms be ok?

Thanks for all the help so far, with a bit of luck things are about to get exciting.

David. D

[Jbignes5]

Sweet.

Well there are many winding styles and all of them need to be looked into. That is why we are here right? I still dont think the windings are right in the middle. they should form the other half of the squares and go into the apperature. the disgn you got there doesn't seem to do that. it seems the angles are not right there.
Hey could you make the lower circle closer to the middle section by a half a real inch? that might be closer to my design. What would help you is to take the anagram and look at the length of the straight lines compared to the others. What I know is the longest line is the sum of the other 2 shorter ones on the lower lobes. there are 3 lines that make this design up. Go from 1 to 2 2 to 4 and 4 to 8. Thats the set of wires. The sum of (1 to 2) + (2 to 4) = 4 to 8. No matter what the lengths they will always be correct if you follow that equasion.

Ok now that we see there is a validity to the design I wanted to start a convesation to what Rodins theories describe in his own words " What I am basically doing is creating a black hole on the bench". This speaks reams to my design seeing that the structure of a black hole is funnel shaped on both ends. But one curious thing they noted about black holes is that they emit a beam of high intense energy comming from the apprature. On the scale of real Black holes this is very problematic for the targets. For the scale of my design this should be no bigger then we could handle thru simple recieving grids on both ends to provide a potential difference to draw from and block the energy created that should shoot out the ends in a beam like effect. The distance from the top and bottom ends should be at the 9 position of his anagram. Given enough space it should be insulated from the main coil but that will have to be looked into as well.

........._____ <-grid +
........._____
.......________
...........___
...........___ <-grid -

Try to put two grids that are round and about the size of each the top and lower circles. They might have to be plates of a specific material and I am guessing it should be non magnetic material. Maybe solid copper or aluminum.
As to the polarity I am only guessing at this point.

Oh and I just got my Oscillascope. It's a BK Precision 1477... Capable of 15mhz measurements. That should do me for awhile till I can get a faster one. Dang It doesn't have the test probes rofl... Hmm have to see if I can get some... or make em...

[Jbignes5]

Answer

Hi all,

you could even file lil grooves into the pvc for the wires to rest in, saves all that messing about with pins.

My N42 1-inch NEO spheres came today...their strength took my breath away.

im about to wire my rodin coil up to my new Amp, which is being fed by the function generator thriugh the sound card..i wanted to ask Jamie or anybody else...

since the AMp is s'posed to be used with speakers which have an impedance of 4 Ohms or 8 Ohms...and since each winding of my coil is only 1.8 Ohms... would wiring a 6 Ohm resistor in series with the coil winding to bring it up to about 8 Ohms be ok?

Thanks for all the help so far, with a bit of luck things are about to get exciting.

David. D

Try not to use inductive resistors ie wire wound as it will block certain fequencies from your coil. Non inductive resistors are a little more expensive but they can be purchased. Weather or not they are available thru local stores I have no idea. You will have to look. But they are available online.

[wwdotme]

[QUOTE=Jbignes5;71933] Hey could you make the lower circle closer to the middle section by a half a real inch? that might be closer to my design. What would help you is to take the anagram and look at the length of the straight lines compared to the others. What I know is the longest line is the sum of the other 2 shorter ones on the lower lobes. there are 3 lines that make this design up. Go from 1 to 2 2 to 4 and 4 to 8. Thats the set of wires. The sum of (1 to 2) + (2 to 4) = 4 to 8. No matter what the lengths they will always be correct if you follow that equasion.


........._____ <-grid +
........._____
.......________
...........___
...........___ <-grid -

[QUOTE]

ok will work on that have to work this afternoon so will be later tonight
beore i get a chance to work on it.
I also noticed the distance from middle loop to bottom loop is twice teh dist. of the top to middle loop
am I correct thier?