Marko Rodin

[Jbignes5]

hmmm pretty good.

lol dot, sorry big....

anyways...moving swiftly on ( )....

would the attatched circuit achive the following...

when pwm output goes high (12V)... mosfet-A turns on and coil-A is energised, while at the4 same time mosfet-B is not turned on and therefore coil-B is not connected to either coil-A or the 24V supply.... when pwm goes low (0V) mosfet-A turns off..and also mosfet-B turns on... then flyback voltage from coil -A via the diode is then forced into coil-B. in other words, its a way to put flyback voltage from one coil, into another coil but ONLY the flyback.the seconds coil ( B ) is never energised by the 24V supply.

Hope that makes sense,

David. D

Not bad but you need to remember that the firing sequence is this:
1
Coil a: on
Coil b: off
space: off

2
Coil a: off
Coil b: on
space: off

3
Coil a: off
Coil b: off
space: off

goto 1

Marko is very very specific about the timings. Pulsing the first coil and letting the inverse spike to goto the second coil is what I was thinking all along. But there needs to be a space for the 3 6 9 to activate without any pulses. This is important to get this timing correct. So you would have a pulse coil a or the driver element. Collect the spike and let it energize the b coil. Then let it wait an equal amount of time as the other timings. So this unit is designed to use 3 mark spaces. 2 for pulses and 1 for the action of the vortex to spin up or normalize before the next rev up or pulse trains.
Everyone has been doing it without letting the 3 6 or 9 do it's work and I think that is where you get better results.

Is it possible to for you to have another marker in there after the first two fire? This also speaks volumes about how much energy is actually being used or bounced around in this design or even the donut Rodin Coils 1/3 the normal. Actually you would only need one pulse from the battery and everything else would run so we need the pulse to be a 1/3 of the normal timins. So pulse then wait 2 markers then pulse again.
Since coil 1 is the only coil that is connected to a battery this might make it even more economical with 1/3 the power being consumed.
What do you think?

[morpher44]

mutual induction SHAPE

Jamies latest vid where he tales a "standard" rodin coil, cut out all of the plastic donut, then flattened the wire down with his hand to basically make a mess....and it still levitated/rotated the magnet..as i said earlier, this to me implies that it is the winding "order" of the wires that is important as opposed to strictly the "geometry".....but..only time will tell when these other guys building their "basket" rodins start to test them....its going to be Veryyyyyyy interesting.
David. D

I recommend this lecture which is very interesting
with respect to mutual inductance.
Notice that the curve he comes up with has magnetic fields
increasing up to the radius of the wire, then dropping
as you move away from the wire ... and then dropping
more significantly as you interface with another cylinder surface.
The curve is not unlike the outer-hull of a UFO.

But this brings to my realization that with the Rodin design,
you have all these wires focused to one orifice -- creating
a sort of highly concentrated magnetic fields -- at lower current
-- at that place in the geometry.
All wires meet there.

So the orifice is the interesting place to look
in terms of magnetic fields.

YouTube - Lecture-26-Mutual Inductance

[rave154]

Jbig,

your comments on 1/3 on for A, 1/3 on for B, then 1/3 off for both etc.....is EXACTLY what i wanted to do originally but my lack of knowledge with electronics is whats holding me back from designing anything like that at the moment ( it took me practically all day to come up with the circuit i showed lol )

My actual interest in the circuit i showed was i wanted to ( and will ) replicate GOTOLUC's "recycling BEMF" thread which i participated in, where he charged a coil and then let it collapse while using a diode to send the BEMF into the same coil.....it produced a quite significant increase in magnetic activity ( the magnet on top of the coil went from merely vibrating slightly without the BEMF....to levitating substantiall with the BEMF )....in other words ..

no BEMF = little magnet activity.... BEMF = BIG magnet activity...

since the rodin coil seems to thrive on producing either greater magnetic flux / increased focused magnetic thrust i thought it was a natural to try and feed the BEMF back into the Rodin coil......but i also had another though on that subject too...

Now i'm probbaly stretching things here, but wont know until i test it ( using the circuit ), but what i wanted to do was recreate the "shear" using a pulse from a battery going in one direction and the BEMF from another coil going in the other direction, basically to see what happens, if anything.

On a different note, regarding the spinning Neo spheres in the rodin coils, i dont think they are spinning around a single stationary axis, i think they are spinning more like those old fashioned "Disco Light spheres"...the field from the coil is trying to spin the Neo on more than one axis at the same time and obviously the Neo cannot do this and responds by "trying to keep up as best it can" and producing the motion that we see.

This implies that we need 'something' in the middle of the rodin coil as a pickup device that CAN spin in more than one axis at the same time, or at least is the equivelent of something that can spin in more than one axis at the same time. Perhaps an arrangement of coil-core material ( ie, silicon steel, magnetite, etc )...arranged geometrically around & through the inside of the rodin coil to "pickup" the moving field produced by the Rodin, obviously there would be pickup coils wound around the silicon/magnetite material to have voltage induced.

On a similar note, is the possibility of using the Rodin coil, or the middle of it i should say, as a magnetic conductor for use in "flux manipulation devices"......aka MEG's and the like, using the middle of the rodin coil ( or geometrically selected parts ) to alternately allow & disallow magnetic flux to pass through it, giving rise to alternating flux in the rest of the MEG-type-device.

Hope this makes sense.

David. D

p.s, Morpher, thanks for the vid, watching it now :-)

[Dogood]

Jbig,

On a different note, regarding the spinning Neo spheres in the rodin coils, i dont think they are spinning around a single stationary axis, i think they are spinning more like those old fashioned "Disco Light spheres"...the field from the coil is trying to spin the Neo on more than one axis at the same time and obviously the Neo cannot do this and responds by "trying to keep up as best it can" and producing the motion that we see.

This is my conclusion also. I put a black markerpen on the spinning sphere to get a circle but this only stays in the middle when the sphere is spinning in a fixed location against the wire. When it is spinning against another wire location, the line isn't going straight. Just a bit off though.
The sphere wanting to be at a certain spot inside the coil is due to the handwinding being done better on one side than the other i guess..

[Iotayodi]

This implies that we need 'something' in the middle of the rodin coil

I forget the name of the device that had two bearings with a shaft. A 12 volt battery was used with a + on one bearing and a - on the other. It had to be started by hand. It drew a lot of amps. If you can place the bearings in the center of 2 rodin coils with a shaft it would be interesting to see what happens.

[rave154]

iota,

i think i know what youre refering to, it was a bearing on a shaft...simple as that..... like you say.....with a + on the inner...and a "-" on the shaft....something like that....i remember peter lindemann making reference to it in an article or something.....not sure if thats what i meant by "something that can rotate in more than 1 axis" though...

i seriously doubt if theres any 'mechanica' device we can have that can rotate in more than 1 axis at a time.......what i meant was more.....some kind of pickup coil...that is wound such that.... 1 of the windings picksup the flux/field that would normally want to spin the neo sphere "that-a-way"......with another winding geometrically placed that picksup the flux/field that at the same time wanted to spin the neo-sphere "this-a-way"....obviously the neo-sphere cant react to that.....but a coil....suitably wound.....would pick it all up without moving anywhere.


keep the thoughts and ideas coming fella's....more, more, morrrrre

David. D

[Jbignes5]

iota,

i think i know what youre refering to, it was a bearing on a shaft...simple as that..... like you say.....with a + on the inner...and a "-" on the shaft....something like that....i remember peter lindemann making reference to it in an article or something.....not sure if thats what i meant by "something that can rotate in more than 1 axis" though...

i seriously doubt if theres any 'mechanica' device we can have that can rotate in more than 1 axis at a time.......what i meant was more.....some kind of pickup coil...that is wound such that.... 1 of the windings picksup the flux/field that would normally want to spin the neo sphere "that-a-way"......with another winding geometrically placed that picksup the flux/field that at the same time wanted to spin the neo-sphere "this-a-way"....obviously the neo-sphere cant react to that.....but a coil....suitably wound.....would pick it all up without moving anywhere.


keep the thoughts and ideas coming fella's....more, more, morrrrre

David. D

Well if you look at my motor Idea that is exactly what I am trying to do. The driving irons are one end of the iron and the internal irons are fashioned in such a way as to seperate the fields internally and direct the fields to each iron seperately. In a plus seperation. 1/4 to each iron internally then designed to have the same flux through out the irons length. Weather or not this can be done in reality is another story. But it should be tried none the less. Whatever side the irons go into, I'm leaning twords the focused apperature, it should carry that field that it is nearest and bring it outside of the apperature and react with the external wires in an opposite way. But that also means that the wires on the outside need to have a rigid configuration. But like I said this is only a suposition on my side until I can start performing tests on my unfinished build when I complete it.

[Jbignes5]

Jbig,

your comments on 1/3 on for A, 1/3 on for B, then 1/3 off for both etc.....is EXACTLY what i wanted to do originally but my lack of knowledge with electronics is whats holding me back from designing anything like that at the moment ( it took me practically all day to come up with the circuit i showed lol )

My actual interest in the circuit i showed was i wanted to ( and will ) replicate GOTOLUC's "recycling BEMF" thread which i participated in, where he charged a coil and then let it collapse while using a diode to send the BEMF into the same coil.....it produced a quite significant increase in magnetic activity ( the magnet on top of the coil went from merely vibrating slightly without the BEMF....to levitating substantiall with the BEMF )....in other words ..

no BEMF = little magnet activity.... BEMF = BIG magnet activity...

since the rodin coil seems to thrive on producing either greater magnetic flux / increased focused magnetic thrust i thought it was a natural to try and feed the BEMF back into the Rodin coil......but i also had another though on that subject too...

Now i'm probbaly stretching things here, but wont know until i test it ( using the circuit ), but what i wanted to do was recreate the "shear" using a pulse from a battery going in one direction and the BEMF from another coil going in the other direction, basically to see what happens, if anything.

On a different note, regarding the spinning Neo spheres in the rodin coils, i dont think they are spinning around a single stationary axis, i think they are spinning more like those old fashioned "Disco Light spheres"...the field from the coil is trying to spin the Neo on more than one axis at the same time and obviously the Neo cannot do this and responds by "trying to keep up as best it can" and producing the motion that we see.

This implies that we need 'something' in the middle of the rodin coil as a pickup device that CAN spin in more than one axis at the same time, or at least is the equivelent of something that can spin in more than one axis at the same time. Perhaps an arrangement of coil-core material ( ie, silicon steel, magnetite, etc )...arranged geometrically around & through the inside of the rodin coil to "pickup" the moving field produced by the Rodin, obviously there would be pickup coils wound around the silicon/magnetite material to have voltage induced.

On a similar note, is the possibility of using the Rodin coil, or the middle of it i should say, as a magnetic conductor for use in "flux manipulation devices"......aka MEG's and the like, using the middle of the rodin coil ( or geometrically selected parts ) to alternately allow & disallow magnetic flux to pass through it, giving rise to alternating flux in the rest of the MEG-type-device.

Hope this makes sense.

David. D

p.s, Morpher, thanks for the vid, watching it now :-)

I have no doubt that someone will drop by and say I got something for you. But until then keep practicing the circuits and play with them. We know the output that we desire. Thats all the battle. The design will naturally follow. The pulse is nothing hard to do. You just need to setup a timer to do a 1/3 timming of a pulse thats it. Just a single pulse and two wait states then another pulse. When I finish this design of the hardware portion I will delve into helping you with the circuit.
There are a great many experts in this field on this forum. Maybe you should pose a challenge in a new thread with a title of the problem you need help with and I bet the great ones will take up the challenge and even explain things as they suggest circuit setups.
Just give them the timing chart that i have supplied with some further info like adjustable but equal mark space timings in the 1/3 fashion and I bet you will get all kinds of ideas from the guys on here.

[jtstatic]

Hi,

I'm new here and I'm afraid not so scientific in background (maybe sometimes good for a fresh perspective?), but generally logical and seeing the big picture in most things. Anyway because of a certain chain of events I've been starting to look for a unifying theory and gathering data for some time now. The rodin coil is one which is particularly of interest to me so I thought I'd pop in to say hello.

First thing I'd like to present is fibonacci sequence, or PHI, which seems to circle in groups of 12 back and forth. I'm sorry for the messy layout. Just a quick patch up based on my own findings. Might be already presented here though, sorry if so.. Anyway, these two groups are presented continuously in the same order along the sequence:


112 3 584 3 718 9 - 887 6 415 6 281 9 - fibonacci compressed
4 8 7 - 5 1 2 - groups of 3 compressed
1 - 8 - compressing to 1
7 2 7 - 2 7 2 - groups of 4 compressed (+ 3, 6, 9)
7 - 2 - compressing to 1
1 2 5 4 7 8 - 8 7 4 5 2 1 - every second numer from whole seq...
3 9 6 - 6 9 3 - compressed to 3, 6, 9

the formatting is a bit messy because of the forum, it looked better when I first typed it


Grouping of 12 is interesting as this can be found in some other places as well, for example musical note scale or color dials. We already know rodin coil reacts to sound, and in music there is also known the so called solfeggio scale which matches perfectly with frequencies cycling around different groups of 147 258 369 - also acting like a mirror. Just food for thought..


Anyway, coming to my real point, as Jamie recently noticed, the shape we have at the moment is starting to seem rather 2 dimensional - working even when it has been flattened out. So one might wonder if perfecting the shape as such will bring any more results. Not saying that such attempts would be futile and on other hand there is no reason to start shooting around aimlessly too much either, but rather build around found results.

What strikes _to me_ particularly interesting as a shape anyhow is the vector equilibrium, or cuboctahedron - also found by Nassim Haramein for example. It has the hexagonal pattern in 3d at 3 planes from different angles. Actually there is hidden a 4th as well if you look closely. Furthermore, if the shape was rounded it could be even formed as a sphere. This would IMO seem like an ideal shape when trying to build something with a gravitational field of its own.

Here's just a random pic I found from the net:
http://www.rexresearch.com/hodowane/hodo4.gif

I still don't have a complete idea how to wind the whole thing up, as I've just recently started understanding the original coil setup, but I'm hoping this would bring some new ideas to the table, if not already discussed (?) At least the math seems to fit in there, which is what Nassim probably noticed as well..

PS. If you look closely at cuboctahedron it has 6+1 blocks in 2 different layers. Both have 3 tetrahedrons and 3 half octahedrons (pyramids) with one tetrahedron in middle. This seems almost like duality and bonding of two different yet similar shapes. They are also aligned as perfect mirrors (comparing top / bottom layers for example). The whole shape is also fractal in nature, so the center would always have the same shape as the boundary.

br, JT

[Jbignes5]

aaaah what a subject....

Marko And Nassim actually met and chatted about how they came to the same conclusions but Marko actually got a coil designed. But since Nassim used the fibonacci to determine the center of a circle that actually coincided with Marko's Zero point. Very interesting indeed. Two different approaches and yet one truth deciphered.
I too think that what you said about scales would be an interesting addition to our experiments here. And it might help us with determining the frequency to open this up.
But one thing I really am sure of is that geometry is a direct link in determining the flow and the useful output of this device. For now until I get a better understanding of my design and if there is proof that it does work better or maybe not then I will change my approach with that understanding I have gained.
You are always welcome to go your own way and share your results with the rest in this thread. It it is one thing I have learned on this forum is that everyone should do or use thier own ideas to the problem or task at hand. Some do designs and some do with great ideas to change the design. In any event this is an experiment and you are welcome to come and join us if you so please.

[jtstatic]

But one thing I really am sure of it the geometry is a direct like in determining the flow and the useful output of this device. For now until I get a better understanding of my design and if there is proof that it does work better or maybe not then I will change my approach with that understanding I have gained.

You are always welcome to go your own way and share your results with the rest in this thread. It it is one thing I have learned on this forum is that everyone should do or use thier own ideas to the problem or task at hand. Some do designs and some do with great ideas to change the design. In any event this is an experiment and you are welcome to come and join us if you so please.

Yes, I agree - this is the natural way things are, and should be done. I'm really looking forward for the results with your design.

I'm trying to work with a few ideas on my own how the winding could be done in a more multidimensional form (my head kinda hurts just thinking about it), and if I come up with a workable solution I will post more information on this thread. Unfortunately I'm not sure if I'm able to build a working model - as I still haven't started even with a simple coil yet. So yeah, I'm not in a position to tell anyone what to do

BTW, one funny coincidence as a side note, if you look closely at the side view of one of your drawings (the one resembling a cross section of a truncated tetrahedron). It actually looks exactly like cuboctahedron from top, never mind from a bit twisted perspective..

[Cloxxki]

Taking it all a step further then, before Jbignes's first design is even wound...

http://www.rexresearch.com/hodowane/hodo4.gif

Why not wind that thing? Either the advantage and/or disadvantage would be a pile-up of wires on the upper and lower 3 corners. Possibly also in the zero point. Not sure to which extent the latter would be averted by adopting jbignes' proposed Rodin-ratios for the tri ring spacing. The originally proposed rings would change from round, to 3-6-3 corners each. Should be interesting to try and plot a Rodin-based winding pattern for that.
The end result would possibly be something totally different in terms of practical application. Less of a thruster, but more of a...?

[Jbignes5]

Actually

The design that I posted is only a slice or a degree of the actual finished coil. The program I am using is 2d only so you would have to envision the picture about 1-300 times more going fron the center axis on the 2d drawing. What I was trying to do is take Marko's ennagram and apply it directly to the coild geometry. So the design I made is only one complete winding. from the top looking down that winding changes geometry as well. Knowing one winding is being shown it should be wrapped on 3 key points. Those points are circles. The top the middle and the bottom. This means the coil looking from the top will be 3 circles inside of them selves with the windings going from left to right in a ^ patern. once you get to the right you turn the whole coil right and continue in an even patern. so the right of the first ^ connects to the left of the next ^. You keep winding this and a star pattern will form. Once the pattern is complete you turn 1 set of wires distance with the space included and keep winding the coil. This I think will be the 360 pattern but you will have to ask Jamie on that. I myself have only wound 1 coil. It is a big coil and it works awesome.
The main thing that made me change my idea of winding a new coil in the same manner is that Marko himself said it was not right in his videos. So I went back to the basics and rewatched his videos again. This allowed me to see them from a different angle and it gave me a clue. He said the original coil maker was just looking at his ennagram and said you have a coil there. Well I wanted to try the new design with that statement taken litteraly. So I took the ennagram and used that as a guide. Now it is time to play and see if it changes the output. I suspect it will.
The one thing that has never gotten out of my mind is that Marko said that he could map the torrus anywhere in a 3d space of that torrus. Which made me think that maybe he was just mapping the field of that torrus and not the coil itself. So we will have to see if the torrus he is talking about is in fact inside of the coil or if it is a manifestation outside of the coil. I would assume it was inside since that is where the focus of this coil is mainly. Everything else that happens seems to be outside of the coil. Like starting a flow and generating from that flow. Hence the reason for the begining pulse then collection of the back emf to the second coil then a pause to let the flow generate.

[Jbignes5]

Go mate... Try it...

Taking it all a step further then, before Jbignes's first design is even wound...

http://www.rexresearch.com/hodowane/hodo4.gif

Why not wind that thing? Either the advantage and/or disadvantage would be a pile-up of wires on the upper and lower 3 corners. Possibly also in the zero point. Not sure to which extent the latter would be averted by adopting jbignes' proposed Rodin-ratios for the tri ring spacing. The originally proposed rings would change from round, to 3-6-3 corners each. Should be interesting to try and plot a Rodin-based winding pattern for that.
The end result would possibly be something totally different in terms of practical application. Less of a thruster, but more of a...?

Cloxxki... You are welcome to try whatever you think would work. Even if it was a failure it could be used to show that different geometry has different effects. Kinda looks like a Harrimen Nassim design. Go with your gut on this.. That is what I am doing..

[Cloxxki]

Cloxxki... You are welcome to try whatever you think would work. Even if it was a failure it could be used to show that different geometry has different effects. Kinda looks like a Harrimen Nassim design. Go with your gut on this.. That is what I am doing..

Thanks for the encouragement. Unfortunately I would need to start from absolute zero, I have zero electrics knowledge and gear. And a great phobia of buzzing myself.
I may be a lame armchair theorizer, if you will. In a former life phase my proof of concept sketches however got some big things rollings (in less global significant matters, obviously). I try to contribute the way I currently can, hoping to light a magic spark in a greater brain. Once a design proves itself to be significant, my more developed talents may be put to great use in getting it out there.
For now, I'll be on the lookout for small models of such geometrical shapes. To wind with cord.