Trying to decode Tesla's converters.

[boguslaw]

In this little book I believe are all answers:
NIKOLA TESLA ON HIS WORK WITH ALTERNATING CURRENTS
and Their Application to Wireless Telegraphy, Telephony and Transmission of Power : An Extended Interview

Surprisingly this book has never been available widely

I have only found a part of it on net.
Very informative

"Counsel
You have referred to some delicate receiving instruments. Did you have any trouble with those burning out on account of static?

Tesla
My dear sir, I burned out so many instruments before I discovered what was the matter with them! They burned out instantly until I learned how to
make them so that they could not burn out. Yes, that was a great trouble in the beginning.

Counsel
Did you succeed in getting them so they would not burn out?

Tesla
Yes. If lightning struck close by, it would not burn out my instrument that has a millionth of the smallest mass used in the instruments of others."

At least we know that Tesla struggled also with enormous problems at the start.

[boguslaw]

"This coil, which I have subsequently shown in my patents Nos. 645,576 and 649,621, in the form of a spiral, was, as you see, [earlier] in the form of a
cone. The idea was to put the coil, with reference to the primary, in an inductive connection which was not close—we call it now a loose
coupling—but free to permit a great resonant rise. That was the first single step, as I say, toward the evolution of an invention which I have called my
"magnifying transmitter." That means, a circuit connected to ground and to the antenna, of a tremendous electromagnetic momentum and small
damping factor, with all the conditions so determined that an immense accumulation of electrical energy can take place."

Resonance which Tesla found is not of damping character !!!!!
This is the most important information.
We all see "ring down" oscillations when inductive or capacitive discharge occur at special conditions - this is NOT was Tesla is saying !

What Tesla found is EXTRAORDINARY, and I know believe it is purely OU - continuous oscillations .

[boguslaw]

Sorry,I can't resist of posting the rest of excerpt of that interview with Tesla:
(It's unfortunate that book is not widely available in electronic format, be it free or as a commercial e-book)

"Counsel
Mr. Tesla, at that point, what did you mean by electro-magnetic momentum?

Tesla
I mean that you have to have in the circuit, inertia. You have to have a large self-inductance in order that you may accomplish two things: First, a
comparatively low frequency, which will reduce the radiation of the electromagnetic waves to a comparatively small value, and second, a great
resonant effect. That is not possible in an antenna, for instance, of large capacity and small self-inductance. A large capacity and small
self-inductance is the poorest kind of circuit which can be constructed; it gives a very small resonant effect. That was the reason why in my
experiments in Colorado the energies were 1,000 times greater than in the present antennae.

Counsel
You say the energy was 1,000 times greater. Do you mean that the voltage was increased, or the current, or both?

Tesla
Yes [both]. To be more explicit, I take a very large self-inductance and a comparatively small capacity, which I have constructed in a certain way so
that the electricity cannot leak out. I thus obtain a low frequency; but, as you know, the electromagnetic radiation is proportionate to the square root
of the capacity divided by the self-induction. I do not permit the energy to go out; I accumulate in that circuit a tremendous energy. When the high
potential is attained, if I want to give off electromagnetic waves, I do so, but I prefer to reduce those waves in quantity and pass a current into the
earth, because electromagnetic wave energy is not recoverable while that [earth] current is entirely recoverable, being the energy stored in an elastic
system.

Counsel
What elastic system do you refer to?

Tesla
I mean this: If you pass a current into a circuit with large self-induction, and no radiation takes place, and you have a low resistance, there is no
possibility of this energy getting out into space; therefore, the impressed impulses accumulate.

Counsel
Let's see if I understand this correctly. If you have radiation or electromagnetic waves going from your system, the energy is wasted?

Tesla
Absolutely wasted. From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the
current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90
percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth.
It is just like this: I have invented a knife. The knife can cut with the sharp edge. I tell the man who applies my invention, you must cut with the sharp
edge. I know perfectly well you can cut butter with the blunt edge, but my knife is not intended for this. You must not make the antenna give off 90
percent in electromagnetic and 10 percent in current waves, because the electromagnetic waves are lost by the time you are a few arcs around the
planet, while the current travels to the uttermost distance of the globe and can be recovered.
This view, by the way, is now confirmed. Note, for instance, the mathematical treatise of Sommerfeld,[*] who shows that my theory is correct, that I
was right in my explanations of the phenomena, and that the profession was completely misled. This is the reason why these followers of mine in
high frequency currents have made a mistake. They wanted to make high frequency alternators of 200,000 cycles with the idea that they would
produce electromagnetic waves, 90 percent in electromagnetic waves and the rest in current energy. I only used low alternations, and I produced 90
percent in current energy and only 10 percent in electromagnetic waves, which are wasted, and that is why I got my results. . . .
You see, the apparatus which I have devised was an apparatus enabling one to produce tremendous differences of potential and currents in an
antenna circuit. These requirements must be fulfilled, whether you transmit by currents of conduction, or whether you transmit by electromagnetic
waves. You want high potential currents, you want a great amount of vibratory energy; but you can graduate this vibratory energy. By proper design
and choice of wave lengths, you can arrange it so that you get, for instance, 5 percent in these electromagnetic waves and 95 percent in the current
that goes through the earth. That is what I am doing. Or you can get, as these radio men, 95 percent in the energy of electromagnetic waves and
only 5 percent in the energy of the current. . . . The apparatus is suitable for one or the other method. I am not producing radiation with my system; I
am suppressing electromagnetic waves. . . . In my system, you should free yourself of the idea that there is radiation, that the energy is radiated. It is
not radiated; it is conserved. . ."


Devices so far I believe was based on Tesla magnifying transmitter internal operating ideas :
- Hubbard Coil
- Moray valve
- Hendershot motor
- Edwin Gray (or Marvin Cole) switching element tube
- Floyd Sweet VTA
- Stanley Meyer original WFC cell
- Steven Mark TPU
- Kapanadze resonant circuit

and probably much more

[captainpecan]

Bog, thanks for posting this info, I have never seen this interview before, good stuff!

Otto, thanks for trying to help! Unfortunately with all the turmoil, trolls, arrogance, and flaming anyone trying to learn, that goes on over at OU, I find it highly likely that the poster is not really Steven Marks at all. There are many very skilled members over there, it's really to bad all the trolls feel they have to do whatever they can to destroy it for everyone else. I wish I could believe it was really Steven Marks, but for now, I'm just going to try and follow Tesla's lead through true experiments, and learn from those who truly are willing to teach me! If you have come across some real experiments and results, good or bad, that could help, please feel free to share! I'm very open for suggestions, and learning. I'm just not sure I can spend much time hoping all that info over there really came from Steven, just to find out someone made it all up to get attention.

Don't get me wrong Otto, I am not meaning this as a negative post at all. especially not negative to you. And I do thank you for sharing!

[captainpecan]

also : why we cannot put output current from transformer back to the primary in correct phase and merge with primary current ? can such positive feedback work to rise voltage or current more and more ?

I missed this part of your post earlier I guess... It's funny you mention this, because I have been kicking this exact thing around in my brain for quite a while now. Just not sure how to do it, and I still have a long way to go to figure it out, lol. But theoretically, if the potential is higher going back in than the pulse currently running through, even at very low amperage it should still ad a "kick" so to speak. And we all know there is a lot of talk about adding a "kick" is the secret! You never know.

Actually, I was just thinking. If one were to follow the patent, he does use an AC generator to feed the transformer. The transformer creates a rotating magnetic field. Theoretically, if that rotating magnetic field helped turn the AC generator, then in effect, you are adding the output work back into the input source, in phase. This still does not feed the output current back into the system, but it could decrease the input needed, and increase output obtained.

[boguslaw]

Thanks. I found in Tesla interview something of utmost importance but because English is not my native language I'm not sure that I understand it truly.

Please help me decipher this very informative fragment:

"Counsel

And when this was connected in and used in an antenna, did you use it as in other instances—go off and listen to the notes which you received?

Tesla
Oh, certainly. But I remember that, besides this, I had different kinds of apparatus. Then I had a sensibly damped wave because at that time I still
was laboring under the same difficulties as some do this day—I had not learned how to produce a circuit which would give me, with very few
fundamental impulses, a perfectly continuous wave. That came with the perfection of the devices. When I came to my experiments in Colorado, I
could take my apparatus like that and get a continuous or undamped wave, almost without exception, between individual discharges.

Counsel
Speaking of your not having perfectly undamped waves at that time, you were referring to that character of circuit?

Tesla
Yes, but with another kind of circuit I could, of course. The advantage of this apparatus was the delivering of energy at short intervals whereby one
could increase activity, and with this scheme I was able to perform all of those wonderful experiments which have been reprinted from time to time in
the technical papers. I would take energy out of a circuit at rates of hundreds or thousands of horsepower. In Colorado, I reached 18 million
horsepower activities, but that was always by this device: Energy stored in the condenser and discharged in an inconceivably small interval of time.
You could not produce that activity with an undamped wave. The damped wave is of advantage because it gives you, with a generator of 1 kilowatt,
an activity of 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, or 5,000 kilowatts; whereas, if you have a continuous or undamped wave, 1 kilowatt gives you only wave energy at
the rate of 1 kilowatt and nothing more. That is the reason why the system with a quenched gap has become popular.
I have refined this so that I have been able to take energy out of engines by drawing on their momentum. For instance, if the engine is of 200
horsepower, I take the energy out for a minute interval of time, at a rate of 5,000 or 6,000 horsepower, then I store [it] in a condenser and discharge
the same at the rate of several millions of horsepower. That is how these wonderful effects are produced. The condenser is the most wonderful
instrument, as I have stated in my writings, because it enables us to attain greater activities than are practical with explosives. There is no limit to the
energy which you can develop with a condenser. There is a limit to the energy which you can develop with an explosive.
A common experiment, for instance, in my laboratory on Houston Street, was to pass through a coil energy at a rate of several thousand horsepower,
put a piece of thick tinfoil on a stick, and approach it to that coil. The tinfoil would melt, and would not only melt, but while it was still in that form, it
would be evaporated and the whole process took place in so small an interval of time that it was like a cannon shot. Instantly I put it there, there was
an explosion. That was a striking experiment. It simply showed the power of the condenser, and at that time I was so reckless that in order to
demonstrate to my visitors that my theories were correct, I would stick my head into that coil and I was not hurt; but, I would not do it now."

[captainpecan]

Do you know when this interview took place? He makes references to so many people trying to duplicate his work, I assume it was very late in his life.

Much of the concepts he is talking about makes perfect sense to me, and much the way I view things. He is simply following normal physics, with the transfers of kinetic energy and such. I'm going to have to go read through all the info several times to make sure I understand it all.

[boguslaw]

Let me describe my concept.

Based on Tesla statements I see two kinds of waves : damped like a capacitor discharge and undamped called also continuous - which I believe is in resonant RLC circuit with small resistance compared to inductance and capacitance.
Now I imagine two circuits : one generating damped wave with squeeze factor as described by Tesla - releasing energy at much higher rate.
Then I imagine a second resonant circuit loosely connected with the first by magnetic field maybe. If damped wave would be resonant frequency of that second circuit the continuous oscillation should occur there having total of energy of that single damped discharge.
Such a combination would be a method of producing large oscillating output current of high amperage from relatively low power input.

So I'm asking : where is the flaw in my argumentation ?

[boguslaw]

Here is the available part downloaded from internet and stored in pdf file

[captainpecan]

I found where your getting your info from, google is a wonderful thing, lol. Looks like I'm gonna have to order this book from amazon, it's not anywhere local for sure.

Also, it does appear to be feasible to use this little transformer, with a pulse motor generator such as bedini style. It will actually fit nicely with another generator idea I have been wanting to build for some time now. A round about idea of what I am thinking, is to use a horizontal rotor that sits inside this ring. The rotor will also generate AC current as it turns, feeding directly into the transformer. Each turn of the rotor, sends pulses into the transformer that in turn helps move the rotor. The rotor will also be driven by a bedini trigger coil. Hopefully, the bedini will help get the rotor in resonance. The faster it moves, the more energy it pushes into the transformer, that in turn pulses the rotor around more. Maybe, if built properly, energy can be taken off the secondary of the transformer to keep a capacitor charged that runs the bedini coil. If all worked perfectly, and resonance was hit exactly right, the capacitor would rise higher while the current used to power the coil would decrease.

Maybe I'm talking out my butt, lol... I'm just brainstorming. Any thoughts?

[boguslaw]

Anothere mysterious fragment :

"Counsel
What was the horsepower activity in the oscillating circuits when you used this machine?

Tesla
Usually something like 50 horsepower, and I would get, I should say, approximately 30 horsepower in the antenna; that is, I would get 30 horsepower
in the oscillating circuit.

Counsel
I understood a little while ago when you made the statement of using several thousand horsepower put into a condenser, you could take out of the
condenser a million horsepower. I wondered if you got the same condition with this machine.

Tesla
Yes; I charged the condenser with 40,000 volts. When it was charged full, I discharged it suddenly, through a short circuit which gave me a very
rapid rate of oscillation. Let us suppose that I had stored in the condenser 10 watts. Then, for such a wave there is a flux of energy of (4 x 104)2,
and this is multiplied by the frequency of 100,000. You see, it may go into thousands or millions of horsepower.

Counsel
What I wanted to get at was, did that depend upon the suddenness of the discharge?

Tesla
Yes. It is merely the electrical analogue of a pile driver or a hammer. You accumulate energy through a long distance and then you deliver it with a
tremendous suddenness. The distance through which the mass moves is small—the pressure immense.

Counsel
Did you find that that was the best condition for transmitting energy without the use of wire?

Tesla
No, I did not use that method when I was transmitting energy. I used it only in the production of those freaks for which I have been called a
magician. If I had used merely undamped waves, I would have been an ordinary electrician like everybody else."

[captainpecan]

Yes; I charged the condenser with 40,000 volts. When it was charged full, I discharged it suddenly, through a short circuit which gave me a very
rapid rate of oscillation. Let us suppose that I had stored in the condenser 10 watts. Then, for such a wave there is a flux of energy of (4 x 104)2,
and this is multiplied by the frequency of 100,000. You see, it may go into thousands or millions of horsepower.

I'm not an expert by any means on a tank circuit, but this appears to be exactly what he is talking about here.

[ZincFold]

Hi captainpecan,

I played around with this patent a few years ago and got some interesting results. I’ve since moved on to other projects but will definitely have to revisit this project at a later date.

I know many people have tried this with very disappointing results ending up in them giving up on it all together.
I can only give you what my personal experience was tinkering with this type of generator.

Because this generator functions primarily on rotating magnetic fields with in the torrid core it is important to use a material that is a good magnetic conductor such as soft iron similar to that found in most power transformers or in my case I used the large ferrite ring I got off the back of an old TV tube.
I think soft iron may work better since it has better ability of storing magnetic saturation.

Most of these rings come in two halves which was the furthest I diverted from the original design. The original patent has four segments.
I have seen many fellow researchers using copper wire for the core which isn't magnetic so I really don’t see the sense in even attempting to use copper wire.

Now this is important and I have felt many have misinterpreted this part of Tesla's patent.

The AC pulses feeding the primary coils must be pure sine waves.
This prevents the magnetic fields in the core from total collaps which is not what we want and is instrumental in their rotation. This means the secondary coils are not producing voltage spikes from collapsing magnetic fields but rather producing current induced by the magnetic poles passing through them. My hook up had one primary coil utilizing the top end of the sine wave and the other the bottom.

The faster your sine waves pulse the faster the magnetic fields rotates within the core inducing more current and higher voltage in the secondary output coils. This output was also dependant on the wire thickness and number of winds.

I should also mention that I found that speeding up the frequency of the sine waves also allowed me to us less power for my input.

Hope this information helps you with your research.

Happy Tinkering.
@ble

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

here's a new lead on this patent of Tesla's (381,970 Tesla Patent 381,970 - System of Electrical Distribution )

I've been thinking about blocking oscillators again and specifically about bucking magnetic fields (hum bucking). I wanted to make my flyback transformer better, so I was thinking I could wind the primary in two directions and hit it with a square wave, so the flyback has a humbucking effect.

So I did a google image search for "humbucking flyback", and what do you know, I came across this gem:
Renco Electronics, Inc. Part Descriptions
http://www.rencousa.com/RL-2230.pdf
From the page:
RL-2230
This series of rugged low-profile transformers is specifically designed for convenient PC board mounting. The low-overall height permits close spacing of adjacent PC boards to obtain maximum system density. Using non-concentric side-by-side windings, reduces the interwinding capacitance and eliminates the need for electrostatic shielding. Semi-toroidal hum bucking construction results in balanced winding reducing EMI. Dual primary windings permit designs for 115/230VAC, 50/60Hz applications. The two independent secondary windings offer the flexibility of series, parallel or two isolated outputs.

Look familiar? THIS IS THE TRANSFORMER USED BY STAN MEYER! he pulsed 1 of the primaries, and had the other primary wired as the secondary, and the 2 original secondary coils are connected to either end of Stan's secondary, in magnetic opposition to the other side, and with a blocking diode.


Same as this Tesla patent, but the core is divided into 2 opposing sections, rather than 4 as he originally did.

EDIT: I guess I'm trying to turn a flyback transfomer into its exact opposite, an impulse transformer (Magnifying transformer perhaps? )

[Farmhand]

Hi all, I've dug up this thread to continue the investigations into the Dynamo Electric Machine of US patent 390721

US390721.pdf - Windows Live

A lot of information about this device can also be found in this document.

Polyphase Currents and High Potential Lighting.pdf - Windows Live

Some snippets from the second document which contains the patent text and more.
Here is the formulae for determining the magnatizing effect of the primary coils. Can anyone do those calculations for different coils if the correct data is supplied, I could not hope to be able to do it myself.
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...ext.jpg?psid=1

This righthand diagram shows a series line of syncronous motors. "Like" the "zero Amp" demonstration video in the back of the pickup truck.
This is Either Nikola's Tech. or it is very old tech. and free.
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...ers.jpg?psid=1

This explains why shifting the poles around a ring is more efficient than a solenoid type coil arrangement.
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...t-2.jpg?psid=1

Reading the Polyphase Currents document, Nikola says that the simplest motor is just a steel disc with the appropriate sections cutout to make "like pole pieces" this is positioned in the center of the toroid it can be wound with coils at right angles and closed upon themselves, shorted. But it does not need to have coils. It's just better that way.

It also says that it can be done in three phase but it is not as efficient as four, four being the best when considering relative complexity.

Cheers