Two Element Bemf

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Hi all,

this is the start of a new thread in the use of the bemf of an inductive element to run a resistive element without using more power, infact reduce the power consumption in relation to power out.

This is not OU, it is a form of reducing the power in but having the same power out. Please read my posts on the Ainsly cop17 thread but post here so as not to intrude on the other thread.

All input is wecome here, but abuse will not be tolerated. I at the moment am not sure what is happening, but something IS happening in this set up.

I will try and post a block diagram of the set up later today, but it is very simple if you read my posts, and it can be done on a small scale, it does not have to be industrial like I have done

I will try and post more later

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

I would like all to think about the phase relation of current and voltage in this set up. Current is out of phase with voltage by 90 degrees in non- resistive loads and leading in inductive loads and trailing in capacitive loads.

By combining these three phases in this circuit I am sure we are increasing the efficiency way beyond what is the norm for a heating element.

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Block diagram

[Peter Lindemann]

Totally Great

Mike,

Thanks for starting this new thread. Are there any diodes in the circuit? Besides the block diagram, can you show us the complete schematic and some photos? "Inquiring Minds Want to Know".

Keep up the great work!

Peter

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Hi Peter,

I will have to leave the exact electronic circuit to my partner in crime when he gets back off his hols, as he does not want anything published untill we have sorted out what is happening.

One thing for sure is that we are NOT fooling the meter as we are using a very sofisticated digital meter normally used for testing in the heating and ventilating test lab to make sure we are not fixing the meter or the electric company would be after us.

There are no diodes, the triacs are diodes in themselves and as I believe the duty switching circuit possibly could be done away with but at the moment we want to explore different duty cycles. Triacs are a little more difficult in so much that you can not play around with the duty cycle and frequency very much as it can cause triggering on of the triac when you do not want it. This said my idea is to make the thing simple, the more simple the better, and if it requires making a new age heating element, then that is what we will do.

A heating element of two parts, one inductive and the other resistive, but in close proximity to one another as to form a capacitance in their construction.

Now I think you know where I am going, we have an inbuilt LC circuit in the heating element Now if we can find the right set up so as we can bounce that rubber ball from one wall to the other!!!!!!!! with the minimum of energy and those two walls were spring loaded "capacitor" we have lift off.

Early days but as of now we have just over 39% less consumption for the same effective heating of a 1.5kw element.

Mike

P:S: more to post but I need to think about it first

[Peter Lindemann]

Another Trick...

Mike,

While you're at it, you may want to try another trick we found. First shown in Bob Teal's motor, the set-up consists of TWO inductors in parallel, operated by the same switch. What happens is the two inductors charge up in PARALLEL, but when the switch turns off, they have nowhere to discharge to except into each other! This produces a situation we call a "Lenz Law Clamp" where the collapse of the magnetic fields buck each other in the series loop. Maximum magnetic field strength and currents are sustained for periods far in excess of the time it takes to charge the inductors in the first place. Teal used this trick to produce long power strokes on his solenoid engine with only short ON-TIME impulses. Since heat will be produced any time there is both voltage and current on the inductive heating elements, this may be a simple way to use just one switch (instead of two) and to get the biggest heat production from a low duty-cycle input.

Just a thought.

Peter

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Peter,

Have you seen the post I have made on "inductive cicuits-the classical approach" Post 154

I see were you are and it is a good test to make, but not sure if we will fall into the fixing meter trap!!!!! An inductance likes to discharge at full force into a resistance, but if we can catch the rebound "resonance" and send it through again!!!!!!!!!! from a capacitor which lets say, is a gloved hand catching the rebound ball, and then throw it back, I think we gain momentum, "voltage" and the current follows at a higher rate and increased heat.

Difficult to explain, perhaps we should have a verbal get together when you can, knowing the time difference, call me when you see me connected

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

New Age Heating Element

Hi all

This is the concept, a small bench top version could be made. The elements are an integral part of the capacitor, ""close proximity too one another to form capacitance".

Mike

[gyula]

Hi all

This is the concept, a small bench top version could be made. The elements are an integral part of the capacitor, ""close proximity too one another to form capacitance".

Mike

Hi Mike,

Could you tell me the approximate self-inductance of the inductive heater element? Maybe some ten to a few hundred microhenry?

Also, the created structural capacitance between the two heater element can be about some hundred picoFarads and not higher than 1-2nF?

Thanks, Gyula

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Hi Mike,

Could you tell me the approximate self-inductance of the inductive heater element? Maybe some ten to a few hundred microhenry?

Also, the created structural capacitance between the two heater element can be about some hundred picoFarads and not higher than 1-2nF?

Thanks, Gyula

HI Gyula,

Sorry I can not give you the inductance value at the moment as it is all about 45km away from my home and it was not measured by me, you will have to wait untill all are back off their hols, this is a big problem here in Spain, everything shuts down in August

My idea is to make a small unit for testing on the bench and to be powered by a transformer off the mains, the voltage does not matter as long as your components will coupe.

Make up whatever inducting element you want for the power you are going to use, that goes for the resistive element as well. If anybody knows of a way of switching this other than with a triac set up, please post it here.

The set up is very similar to Luc's, but here we are using the mains frequency and a duty cycle between 30 - 70% and an inbuilt capacitance of the two elements, which can only be measured after it is built.

I think that what we have here is the inductor oscillating in its self made tank circuit and it is riding along with the mains frequency and dumping the bemf into the resistive element with great effect.
Lets see if several people can get the same effect, the circuit is very simple and easy to make. I will be making a bench size as I get the components prepared.

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Link to triac circuits

Here is a link to triac circuits which can be used. A normally open and a noemally closed circuit will be required and pulsed by one common circuit such as a 555 duty cycle circuit.
http://production.littelfuse.com.hk/...tes/AN1007.pdf
Mike

[gotoluc]

Hi Michael,

I did a quick test of the effect you mentioned during one of my new experiments and it is in the video below.

I cannot confirm that a resistor in close proximity of a coil field has a extra heating boost. However, my test is simple and maybe I'm missing it altogether what you are finding.

Link To video: YouTube - Effect of Recirculating BEMF to Coil test 14

Let me know what you think or recommend.

Thanks

Luc

[Michael John Nunnerley]

HI Luc

Thanks for doing that test. I think the difference is that I am using an AC sine wave input. My idea was if you could use a transformer off the mains, in your case I think it is 60hz, here it is 50hz, so as you are switching an AC current not a DC current. The voltage does not matter, only use the voltage that your coil and resistor can take. The duty cycle should be between 30-70%. As I have stated I am using triacs to switch and they have to be configured so as to not get false triggering. I have given a link to circuits for triacs and how they switch and you will notice that they switch at 0v on the sine wave cycle, now when we introduce a switching frequency I think that it will not make any difference, but the duty cycle will naturally make a difference.

Now it is my theory that we have created between the resistor and inductor a natural capacitance and so an LC circuit which is resonating at harmonic frequencys of 50hz, may be for example X 1000 which gives us 50Khz. Now with a 50% duty cycle the LC circuit will resonate 500 times on each half cycle and on the other half of the cycle will dump the energy created in that circuit into the resistor. Both elements are doing work in the form of heat, not only the resistor.

The capacitance that has been created is for sure very low but sufficient to create the oscillation which is in perfect harmonic frequency as it originated from the 50hz.

I hope I have explained myself and for sure you are not getting the same effect as demonstrated in your set up but was worth the try if only to eliminate one of the other possibilities.

If you would like to talk more about this, you know how to contact me, again thanks for taking the time to make the vid:

Mike

[gotoluc]

Thanks for the reply and details Mike

I still have many tests to do with all my copper Inductors, so it maybe a while before I look into this more specifically. Just thought I would do that quick test as you never know

I'll get back to you when the time comes.

Luc

[sebosfato]

Hello friends

You could use a electron source to amplify even further the effect. You need an air capacitance.

Read my thread if you want more info on lc circuits and guys if you can donate please...

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...eyer-true.html