The battery hypothesis

[quantumuppercut]

The battery hypothesis

Suppose we have a 9 volts standard battery. Let's set up 2 situations.

1/ Disconnected (being in air, or near infinity resistance conductor).
2/ Short circuit (conductor with almost zero resistance).

In general thinking, a person would say in situation 1 the battery does not give out power and the battery life would remain indefinitely. In situation 2, the battery is drawing its max power and the battery life will drain up shortly.

This notion of thinking is correct in observation, but not correct in logic. First, air is a bad conductor just as metal is a bad insulator. Let's take it to finite science and give a resistance value to both air and metal. Following omh's law V=IR, we can see that in air, voltage will be high and the infitestimal current exist. The power from the battery will be P=IV, where V is the differential voltage across the air (not battery). In metal, the voltage is low and the current is high. The power from the battery will be P=IV, where V is the differential voltage across the metal. In both cases, the power draw is the same!

In conclusion, the battery continuously give out the same amount of power whether connected or disconected.

The final question would be why the battery die? It is dead not because it has certain amount of energy but rather because of the heat generate by high amperes that destroy the chemical structure within. To put this into real application, one could use high voltage low current or provide a heat sink to remain cool.

[Sephiroth]

I think I get what you are saying... let's look at the formulas using hypothetical figures...

P = IV

which can also be expressed as

P = (V/R)V

With air we can consider R to be infinity... any number divided by infinity is zero so

P = (0)V

therefore regardless of the voltage:

P = 0

now if we take a perfect conductor with zero resistance:

P = (V/R)V

Anything divided by zero is infinity so

P = (Infinity)V

And anything multiplied by infinity equals infinity so it doesn't matter what the voltage is as long as it is greater than zero.

P = Infinity

just my take on it

[Inquorate]

Algebra

hi guys, don't forget that what you do to one side of an equation, you have to do to the other.

I get what you're saying though, as bearded says, infinite energy is available so long as you don't destroy the dipole

[Sephiroth]

hi guys, don't forget that what you do to one side of an equation, you have to do to the other.

I get what you're saying though, as bearded says, infinite energy is available so long as you don't destroy the dipole

ah, but we're talking about power, not energy the time variable has been left out!

zero watts for infinity is the same amount of joules as infinity watts for zero time

[quantumuppercut]

I think I get what you are saying... let's look at the formulas using hypothetical figures...

P = IV

which can also be expressed as

P = (V/R)V

With air we can consider R to be infinity... any number divided by infinity is zero so

P = (0)V

therefore regardless of the voltage:

P = 0

now if we take a perfect conductor with zero resistance:

P = (V/R)V

Anything divided by zero is infinity so

P = (Infinity)V

And anything multiplied by infinity equals infinity so it doesn't matter what the voltage is as long as it is greater than zero.

P = Infinity

just my take on it

I think I spot your error. You consider I = infinity and V is a non zero. If I is infinity, then V must be zero. You cosider I = infinity and V is non zero which is unfair. It is no different than sate Ohm's law V=IR, as R go to infinity, V approach a non zero value.

And anything multiplied by infinity equals infinity so it doesn't matter what the voltage is as long as it is greater than zero.

but it is zero for your case

[Sephiroth]

though if there were zero volts how could there be any current?

[morpher44]

two flows

There are two flows when using a battery.
Current flow yes, but inside the battery we also have
an electro-chemical ionic flow.
Short a battery and the chemistry does its thing ... which in some
batteries might expel gasses that can never be retrieved.
You have to consider the chemistry equations as well.

[quantumuppercut]

though if there were zero volts how could there be any current?

Zero volts differential across the load is infinite current when the circuit close. If the circuit is open, then zero volts differential across the load means no current flow.

Short a battery and the chemistry does its thing ... which in some
batteries might expel gasses that can never be retrieved.

Yes, so I say we keep the current low enough so it won't destroy the chemical. This is rather difficult since the heat generated efffect individual atom itself. If it is higher than activation energy, the atom consider gone. However, if the chemical contain, a high enough voltage can still bring it back to life. As I have shown, even the battery is disconnected, it is still giving out just as much power as it is connected.

I've also stabbed myself with another question: " what is the power good for when the battery is not connected". I realized the power has to go into resonance mode to get current, if not, a higher voltage is needed. This means that the metal has gone into resonance mode much easier than air. In perfect resonance, current = infinity.

[Sephiroth]

Zero volts differential across the load is infinite current when the circuit close. If the circuit is open, then zero volts differential across the load means no current flow.



Yes, so I say we keep the current low enough so it won't destroy the chemical. This is rather difficult since the heat generated efffect individual atom itself. If it is higher than activation energy, the atom consider gone. However, if the chemical contain, a high enough voltage can still bring it back to life. As I have shown, even the battery is disconnected, it is still giving out just as much power as it is connected.

I've also stabbed myself with another question: " what is the power good for when the battery is not connected". I realized the power has to go into resonance mode to get current, if not, a higher voltage is needed. This means that the metal has gone into resonance mode much easier than air. In perfect resonance, current = infinity.

Ok... now I see what you mean... I was looking at the whole circuit including the battery.

Though I don't understand how you can say a 9v battery connected to a 50 ohm load is outputting the same power as it does when connected only through the air?

[eternalightwithin]

I've also stabbed myself with another question: " what is the power good for when the battery is not connected".

Sharp Question

[quantumuppercut]

Though I don't understand how you can say a 9v battery connected to a 50 ohm load is outputting the same power as it does when connected only through the air?

Yes, this is a strange way of seeing it. It's a new paradigm. Think of the disconnected battery in air as small ripples of water waves. Think the battery being short circuit as big ripples waves constructively move together. The small ripples waves if small enough becomes almost a flat line. This is the notion of zero point energy in my opinion. It is infinitely many waves collapsing from the big waves. When in resonance, the small waves reinforce itself into big waves. The momentum of both cases overall is the same, it is the frequency and amplitude that change.


@eternalightwithin

Thanks. I stab my own theory very often. I don't like others to stab me but I prefer them to do so. It is the only way to make a theory strong and satisfy everyone.