Energy Pump Generator - replication challenge

[ausev]

Hi All,

Firstly let me say thank you to all those on these forums who have provided valuable advice and help to so many people in their efforts to create sustainable energy devices.

I have been lurking on the forum for some time experimenting and replicating bedini motors, etc.

I want to discuss a concept I am trying to develop.

I am going to convert my car to a full electric vehicle and I do not want to use batteries to do it apart from the accessory battery it already has.

I want to reuse as many of the electrical components already in the car to do this.

Rather than use batteries I want to develop a capacitor bank fed by an Energy Pump Generator.

The Energy Pump Generator is a concept I had based on some of Tesla's work it involves using very small pulses of energy to build and sustain a larger charge and store it. I have this working after a fashion and need help developing this.

I believe this device has potential to provide a reliable and cheap energy source for 3rd world countries and a reliable generator for electric vehicles ridding the electric car of the current range problems.

I want this to be an open source effort for all the world to benefit from the device. I want to get you to replicate the device and extend it so we can all benefit from these enhancements.

I will post pictures of my device working and try to draw a circuit diagram in this thread but I also have to warn you I have no background in electrical engineering I am an IT consultant with an interest in renewable energy and electric cars.

Currently I can get 4 x 1.5 AA batteries providing 6v to run 3 x 100W CFL light bulbs quite brightly for short periods drawing at about 200 milliamps of current. I need help to get this to run continuously.

I believe either imohteps relay charger or a 555 timer in astable mode could be the trigger I need to provide the final piece of the puzzle.

I look forward to working with all of you to develop this concept into a reality for the benefit of all.

Regards,

AusEv

[ausev]

Images of device

[ausev]

Device Enhancement requirements

I played with various ignition coil driver circuits but eventually created this one myself.

As you can see it is a simple device at present consisting of a cars ignition coil (Bosh type) and a microwave oven capacitor and a battery pack.

To activate the device I simply put the positive lead of the battery pack onto the positive terminal of the capacitor and then tap the negative lead onto the negative terminal of the capacitor.

The idea being that if I can pulse very small currents into the capacitor it will produce enough of a charge to drive the ignition coil which it does quite well. I am doing this manually at the moment but I believe either using imotep's relay charger or a 555 astable driver circuit will automate this and provide a continous stream of pulses.

I then want to store the current being produced into a capacitor bank and then bleed this off slowly to power my electric car for a full day. I believe this could be possible via the addition of a large joule thief circuit.

I am also sure we will need to add some form of voltage regulation onto the circuit but I will leave the rest up to the forum members to decide. Have fun with the replications but please be careful as the coil will produce significant high voltage.

[ausev]

Circuit diagram



Apologies for the poor quality circuit diagram, I did say I am an IT consultant not an electrical engineer.

Have fun replicating this.

[CosmicFarmer]

Looks like you have the bare bones of a radiant production circuit. The 555 timer would take the place of your hand tapping the leads.

I think you will find that a motor on an electric car will pull a lot of current. You will have to design or find a circuit that can monitor the capacitor voltage and release the charge to your motor when it gets high enough.

Thanks for joining the group!

[DrStiffler]

Apologies for the poor quality circuit diagram, I did say I am an IT consultant not an electrical engineer.

Have fun replicating this.

@ausev

Don't you have a direct short across your battery with the two diodes?

[ausev]

@ausev

Don't you have a direct short across your battery with the two diodes?

Yes I didnt know how to show someone tapping a wire onto a capacitior.

The diodes are the ones that came with the Microwave capacitor when I pulled it out. I just hooked the one coming straight up from the positive terminal of the capacitor onto the negative terminal of the coil. The other diode was already plugged across the positive and negative of the capacitor.

The ignition coil is really just acting as a tesla coil would with the capacitor providing the trigger charge. I just want to use really small voltages to cause the triggering of the coil and then fill a large capacitor bank and then drain the charge off slowly from the bank over the course of a day.

[ausev]

Looks like you have the bare bones of a radiant production circuit. The 555 timer would take the place of your hand tapping the leads.

I think you will find that a motor on an electric car will pull a lot of current. You will have to design or find a circuit that can monitor the capacitor voltage and release the charge to your motor when it gets high enough.

Thanks for joining the group!

I have tried the 555 astable timer circuit triggering a coil like this:



but while I could get the square wave working I couldnt get enough of a charge into the 2N3055 to trigger it to power the coil from the 555's pin 3.

[ren]

Hi Ausev,

Im a little confused as to your "ultimate" objective. It sounded at first like you were after a HV capacitive discharge for an electric motor. If that is the case the Gray Tube Replication thread may be of some interest to you, along with some others relating to storing HV in a capacitor and discharging it through a motor coil.

But after seeing your pictures it would seem you are attempting to light some CFL's off the HV pin of the ignition coil. Or is this just a simple load to see if you are successfully pulsing the coil?

Either way, there are lots of simple ways one can get HV off the coil, and as you have already discovered they involve pulsing the primary lead of the coil.

Imhoteps Radiant Oscillator thread would be a great place to start looking for circuits. There are plenty of ways you could get this to work. The 555 circuit you posted should work fine, if it hasnt there is a good chance you have something hooked up wrong or have damaged one of the parts.

Do you have an oscilliscope? Any electronics experience? Live in Australia (AUSev)?

Regards

[ausev]

Hi Ausev,

Im a little confused as to your "ultimate" objective. It sounded at first like you were after a HV capacitive discharge for an electric motor. If that is the case the Gray Tube Replication thread may be of some interest to you, along with some others relating to storing HV in a capacitor and discharging it through a motor coil.

But after seeing your pictures it would seem you are attempting to light some CFL's off the HV pin of the ignition coil. Or is this just a simple load to see if you are successfully pulsing the coil?

Either way, there are lots of simple ways one can get HV off the coil, and as you have already discovered they involve pulsing the primary lead of the coil.

Imhoteps Radiant Oscillator thread would be a great place to start looking for circuits. There are plenty of ways you could get this to work. The 555 circuit you posted should work fine, if it hasnt there is a good chance you have something hooked up wrong or have damaged one of the parts.

Do you have an oscilliscope? Any electronics experience? Live in Australia (AUSev)?

Regards

> Or is this just a simple load to see if you are successfully pulsing the coil?

Yes its just load to see if I was getting HV from the coil.

> Do you have an oscilliscope?

Yes it is in the pictures.

> Any electronics experience?

No I am an IT consultant and electronics is a hobby for me.

Live in Australia (AUSev)?

Yep, I'm from Queensland.

> Im a little confused as to your "ultimate" objective. It sounded at first like you were after a HV capacitive discharge for an electric motor.

Yes I want to get the coil to charge a capacitor bank using small pulses of HV that are then drawn off directly from the bank to power the electric motor for the electric car.

Electric cars suffer from one major drawback and that is range, that is one of the major reasons they arent in wide spread use. In order to get any decent range you need to go to lithium phosphate battery banks.

Right now you have to pay anywhere up to about AU$12,000 for lithium phosphate batteries to make a battery bank for an electric car. This on top of the kit to convert the car another AU$12,500 makes converting to electric cars too expensive right now. I am hoping to halve that cost making it affordable for people to convert their cars by just buying the kit.

I want to get rid of the batteries altogether and have a power generator in the car instead thus eliminating the range problem.

I want to use the capacitor bank to smooth out and regulate the charge going to the electric motor.

I also want to have a slow discharge from the capacitor bank so it can be used like a battery bank. I think a large joule thief could do that. I dont know if it was one of your youtube videos or someone elses that powered their joule thief off a small cap which is where I got that idea from.

[ren]

Ok silly me, its looking right at me So you obviously have some experience if you can use it. Dont worry, alot of us here count electronics as a "hobby," not being formally trained. Which can have its advantages and disadvantages.....

So what happens when you scope your 555 circuit. You say you can see the pulse train from the 555 but it doesnt appear to be triggering the transistor?

Are you sure you have your transistor connected correctly?

If you want to get rid of the batteries from the car altogether then how are you going to generate your high voltage? Not with a petrol generator I assume. Or do you intend to have at least one battery for this purpose?

If you fill up your capacitive bank to high voltage there wont be much point in trickling it out into your engine. For maximum results you will need to look a capacitive discharge, much like the Ed Gray motor has.

This video might interest you, but bear in mind this method would most likely require the complete redesigning of the electric motor used.

YouTube - EV GRAY Pulse Motor (Experiment #1)

Regards

[ausev]

Ok silly me, its looking right at me So you obviously have some experience if you can use it. Dont worry, alot of us here count electronics as a "hobby," not being formally trained. Which can have its advantages and disadvantages.....

So what happens when you scope your 555 circuit. You say you can see the pulse train from the 555 but it doesnt appear to be triggering the transistor?

Are you sure you have your transistor connected correctly?

If you want to get rid of the batteries from the car altogether then how are you going to generate your high voltage? Not with a petrol generator I assume. Or do you intend to have at least one battery for this purpose?

If you fill up your capacitive bank to high voltage there wont be much point in trickling it out into your engine. For maximum results you will need to look a capacitive discharge, much like the Ed Gray motor has.

This video might interest you, but bear in mind this method would most likely require the complete redesigning of the electric motor used.

YouTube - EV GRAY Pulse Motor (Experiment #1)

Regards

> So you obviously have some experience if you can use it.

I said I have one I didnt say I know how to use it

> So what happens when you scope your 555 circuit.

I have scope hooked to the 100 ohm resistor coming out of pin 3 and I put this across both sides of the resistor with the probe closest to pin 3 and the aligator clip on the other side of the resistor.

On the scope I get a classic square wave with some irregularities around the edges and by turning the pots I can vary the length of the on off time with the first pot and the frequency of the square wave with the second pot. The frequency seems to be the thing controlling the irregularities in the wave vertically. The timing seems to be the horizontal distance between each square wave.



> Are you sure you have your transistor connected correctly?

I suspect that is where I am going wrong but cant prove it yet. If I short the emitter and the collector I get the CFL lights to turn on for a short time but this sends the power supply in a loop and drains the capacitor in the circuit.

I have a multimeter on the small capacitor in the circuit at pin 2.

I definitely get power through the circuit as the capacitor is getting up to about 10 volts. I have tried various capacitors and these have a profound effect on the type of square wave you get. The voltage in the cap never rises above 10 volts.

>If you want to get rid of the batteries from the car altogether then how are you going to generate your high voltage?

I want to reuse only the electrical components that exist in a car today as much as possible. I want to use the existing accessory battery that is in the car to power the coil just as most cars do today. I want to find a way to keep that battery charged by bleeding off 240V of the power generated to power the battery charger.

If you look at the electrical system of your average car today there is a wealth of HV equipment in the just in the ignition system of the car. Most of the power that gets generated is wasted in producing a simple set of sparks to ignite petrol. The original electric cars that were in use way back in the early 1900's were using almost the same ignition system but were powering the electric vehicles motor instead. As they only have one moving part in them the motor itself they last for ages. Ironically Henry Ford's wife drove an electric car and they recently just changed its batteries and ran it after 60 years sitting idle and it still ran fine first go.

> If you fill up your capacitive bank to high voltage there wont be much point in trickling it out into your engine.

I am trying to use the capacitor bank to replace a battery bank so it needs to act like the battery bank would. i.e. store its energy for some period of time and feed the motor with what power it needs over time.

> This video might interest you, but bear in mind this method would most likely require the complete redesigning of the electric motor used.

Thank you for making me aware of this. :-)

I want to use the electric motors that most electric cars on the market today use. They are either 8" or 9" series wound DC motors. There are electric cars out there that use AC motors but the AC motors are extremely expensive still so most people just use the DC series wound ones.

[ausev]

Automotive electrical system

For those interested in this thread please read the following if you have time as it explains in great detail the components I am trying to reuse to achieve the energy pump:

Automotive Electrical Systems - Part 1

It makes for an interesting read in any case and their explanation of basic electronic theory is quite good for the newbie like me.

[ausev]

It works

Hi All,

Just a quick update to let you know I got this working after months of experimenting with various circuits.

I can get the 3 CFL's lit up quite well. I have modified the circuit now so it is a basic coil driver circuit. Its still not enough to light up a room by itself but it does make a great lamp so I am working on increasing the output on the HV lead.

Now a question for you all how do I measure this properly and record the results in a meaningful manner for others to review?

How to measure the voltage / amps coming off the coils HV lead safely. As I understand it an ignition coil can produce between 10 and 50Kv?

The only indication I have right now is I am using 100W CFL's and I have 3 of them so thats 300W. But I am not sure about that either as I have followed imohtep's instructions to modify these and removed all the electronics so I have bare bulbs with just the wires hanging off them. So are these bulbs really rated to glow at 100W or only with their electronics in place.

I can see that I am putting into the coil primary between 8-10v AC which is odd as I am not using any rectification and a 12v 3AH sealed lead acid battery as the source so I would have thought it should be DC. If I read it with the DC side of the multimeter it shows less than 2v on the 2.5v setting.
I am assuming I am using my multimeter incorrectly but it does go up and down as I tune the circuit ???

My other question is how can I now store and use this energy over time. I want to be able to charge a capacitor bank if possible with the output from the HV lead and then run an electric motor constantly off this energy?

Once the motor is running I want to put an alternator on the tail shaft and recharge the source battery.

My goal is to run an electric vehicle without a 144v battery bank just the main accessory battery and a capacitor bank thus eliminating the range issue caused by the battery characteristics and the added weight of the batteries.

Would appreciate any advice on this.

Regards,

AusEv

[Joit]

CFL's

Hi,
The CFL's actually are only bright like 100W incandescent bulbs,
but they are neons and comsume for that much lesser.
Usual it written on the case what they usual need, an that is pretty the same,
at an other similar working Circuit.
I think its about 11-16W for 100W rated Cfls.

You could put a Meter in serie with the Bulbs, to measure Amps,
and divide the Volts from the Source (batteries) with this Ah(mA's),
then you should get the Consumption.
The volts, even, when they come with 2000V, will slow down to a medium Value.