The case against Over Unity

[Sephiroth]

@ Sephiroth,

I am a fond of you man, and your experiments are quite interesting. By the way, you somehow, misunderstand me and think that i am little sloppy and negative person about... anything?.

1st
In terms of SSG, I have conditioned a lot my batts and keeping an .xls file record in efficiency terms. Actually i take notes on everything. No OU there. Not even close to my design. i have gone as far as 50% eff. You claimed 70% with the most sophisticated SSG made (since you are quite longer time about the SSG issue.)
By the way, you either are nowhere close to OU.

2nd
Yes, as i have been extensively pointed out, my FEG like replication was about to inquire the very basic principles that FEG should have to work. That failed to show anything promising. Numerous topologies used including Bedini's suggested.

3rd
Dr stiffler has very clear arguments and claims about his experiments. He clearly says that a wireless SEC when tuned and emmiting, can support one or more receiving passive SECs without increased power input.

Have I misunderstood that? How can i? WTF did not understand well? That was plain and clear what he said. And towards this direction i am gonna head. I do not expect my SEC replicas to work from scratch, but with Doctor's suggestions and fellow experimenter's support i can make it.

Final word,
I mean no bad or anything. I have no personal disputes with anyone here. Last and not least i'd rather being the black sheep and question everything than accepting vague elusive ideas floating around.

Anyway...

Baroutologos

70% is just my average my better models have been over 0.85 COP (not factoring in any mechanical, and I haven't measured the COP of the MG-1 yet) 50% is common with unconditioned batteries.

I would love to see your excel files... I also log everything so it would be interesting to compare.

I'll show you mine if you show me yours

[Sephiroth]

Just remembered... some of my more recent data is on my website

Solid State Oscillator : The Underground Lab

Though I do have a graph that shows the battery voltage on an OCD circuit for a period of around 2 months from earlier this year. Unfortunatly it never finished conditioning as I had to move house and it disrupted expereiments... starting again with the Fat boy Oscillator though still expect it will take a few months to get them conditioned...

[baroutologos]

Ok. no problem in sharing my "failures" anyway Seph!
By the way, i have not to see yours. I believe you.

Baroutologos

ps: Some commenting is Greek. (literally) By the way you will grasp the idea
ps2: jeez, xls are not allowed, 100 the limti for word

[Sephiroth]

Ok. no problem in sharing my "failures" anyway Seph!
By the way, i have not to see yours. I believe you.

Baroutologos

ps: Some commenting is Greek. (literally) By the way you will grasp the idea
ps2: jeez, xls are not allowed, 100 the limti for word

thanks for that... they do look pretty dissappointing though it is only 14 cycles and it looks like your changing something each time since they amps and voltage inputs are pretty variable... over time the changes in the batteries may have become more obvious.

out of curiosity, do you have the measurements for the output current from these experiments?

[baroutologos]

what do you mean by that? The resistive load applied and the COP obtained?
In the doc, table below...

.....
By the way, i can build (I have not done it before)- a Bedini OU claimed in Beraden Bedini book (pp 46) solid state oscillator with 555 timer (adjustable) with cap dump using either a electrolytic photoplash cap or AC motor run cap-bank (adjustable uf values) as per patent states, with super Hi Q cores, etc ect and take measurements.

So, this cap dump setup alleviates the problem of conditioning since according Bedini theory negative energy is transformed into caps.

What will be your answer Seph? So as to start tacling each issue at a time in a general consensus basis. Agree?

Baroutologos

[Sephiroth]

what do you mean by that? The resistive load applied and the COP obtained?
In the doc, table below...

.....
By the way, i can build (I have not done it before)- a Bedini OU claimed in Beraden Bedini book (pp 46) solid state oscillator with 555 timer (adjustable) with cap dump using either a electrolytic photoplash cap or AC motor run cap-bank (adjustable uf values) as per patent states, with super Hi Q cores, etc ect and take measurements.

So, this cap dump setup alleviates the problem of conditioning since according Bedini theory negative energy is transformed into caps.

What will be your answer Seph? So as to start tacling each issue at a time in a general consensus basis. Agree?

Baroutologos

I have to admit that I haven't done as much with cap pulsers so I'm not sure if a conditioning period is still required though I have a feeling it may still require conditioning since the sulphation still needs to be taken off the plates.

what do you mean by that? The resistive load applied and the COP obtained?
In the doc, table below...

I mean if you put an ammeter between the ssg and the charging battery how much current does it say the charging battery is receiving?

[ren]

NO ONE HAS YET TO POST ANYTHING ON THIS SIGHT THAT IS OVER UNITY PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

I did, according to the most common understanding of so called "overunity".

I actually posted it in this thread, not too far back at all.

Guess no one was interested in it.


And in your next post Mark you say, "Self running." Do you mean overunity, or self running? Infact, this question has still not been answered?

What is the reason for this thread??? "The case against Overunity?" DEFINE OVERUNITY!!!

Do you mean a measurement of more watts out than in? Words keep getting thrown around here without people actually clarifying what they mean.

Regards

[Inquorate]

Hehe

I agree with Matt here Baroutologos.

I dont recall seeing you on the monopole forums at all? So many people build the monopole off the scraps of information seen on the internet and then complain when it doesnt charge 10 batteries off one battery. Very few people, even on the dedicated forums, bother to start at the beginning and build to spec and complete load tests etc. They immediately decide that they know what is best, and go about building their tower of Babel, only to be dissapointed when their results dont stack up.

Show me your monopoles you have built? Provide your specs, graphs reporting joules in vs joules out, extended charge/discharge cycles etc.

I have built over 10 different variations of that simple device alone, learning something different with each one. No I never charged ten batteries off one but I didnt expect to. One cant knock something up with basic tools and limited experience/knowledge and expect it to run like a Bentley.

If you are so adamant about getting so called "OU" then why dont you just buy it off ebay?

15KV 30mA 110vac Neon Sign Transformer Solid State - eBay Passive Components, Electronic Components, Electrical Test Equipment, Business Industrial. (end time 15-Oct-09 10:27:44 AEDST)

110vac 1 amp input, 15,000vac 30ma output. Do the math.

Regards

You never did say what you'd found. I'm guessing it's this?

Looking forward to watching that video you mentioned, and have the diodes etc packed up and waiting

Love and light

[Burned_NE2]

If you are so adamant about getting so called "OU" then why dont you just buy it off ebay?

15KV 30mA 110vac Neon Sign Transformer Solid State - eBay Passive Components, Electronic Components, Electrical Test Equipment, Business Industrial. (end time 15-Oct-09 10:27:44 AEDST)

110vac 1 amp input, 15,000vac 30ma output. Do the math.

Regards

Hi Ren

I have seen other people mention that the NST is OU but I haven't seen the math to prove it. I'm not trying to be argumentative here but I'm trying to figure out Joules in versus Joules out on this thing. The description of the NST says "Input is 110vac 60HZ 1Amp. Output is 15000v at 30mA. " but it doesn't mention what the O/P frequency is, obviously one can't just multiply the voltage and amperage and say that it's so many Watts in versus Watts out without frequency, correct?

Regards,
Paul

[ren]

Hi Ren

obviously one can't just multiply the voltage and amperage and say that it's so many Watts in versus Watts out without frequency, correct?

Regards,
Paul

Why not?

Manufacturers have stringent requirements regarding their claims. Don Smith actually shows one on his video, and comments that there are alot out there that are like this. I just jumped on ebay and the first solidstate NST I came across was OU according to their specs.

If you are given volts and amps of input and output and both are in AC or DC then why cant you use V x A = Watts? Correct me if I am wrong here people.

110vac x 1amp = 110watts input.
15000vac x 0.030amps = 450watts output.

According to their specs, PRINTED on their product their transformer is OU.

Again for the record, I dont really care for this that much, I am more inclined towards Matts thinking, there only is more and more efficient. Who knows, maybe 1 hp will equal 500watts in a few years ?

This is just an example people, but it should encourage people to sit down and think, "What exactly am I after?" You want "OU," buy one of these and wave it around for the world to see. You want something else, then chase that. But this thread is arguing that there is no case for "OU", well I just gave one, so others need to think about either re evaluating their definition of "OU" or changing the name of the thread.

Regards

[Mark]

OK,

Over unity to me is a self runner with power left over to due extra work.

[Burned_NE2]

Why not?

Manufacturers have stringent requirements regarding their claims. Don Smith actually shows one on his video, and comments that there are alot out there that are like this. I just jumped on ebay and the first solidstate NST I came across was OU according to their specs.

If you are given volts and amps of input and output and both are in AC or DC then why cant you use V x A = Watts? Correct me if I am wrong here people.

110vac x 1amp = 110watts input.
15000vac x 0.030amps = 450watts output.

According to their specs, PRINTED on their product their transformer is OU.

Again for the record, I dont really care for this that much, I am more inclined towards Matts thinking, there only is more and more efficient. Who knows, maybe 1 hp will equal 500watts in a few years ?

This is just an example people, but it should encourage people to sit down and think, "What exactly am I after?" You want "OU," buy one of these and wave it around for the world to see. You want something else, then chase that. But this thread is arguing that there is no case for "OU", well I just gave one, so others need to think about either re evaluating their definition of "OU" or changing the name of the thread.

Regards

Hi Ren

Sorry but there is more to it than that, if you're talking DC then yes it can be P = I x V or V x A = Watts as you mentioned but in an AC circuit it's way more complicated than that. Unfortunately I'm not able to do the math on the NST to find out if it is as it's too complicated.

I just wanted to point out that it most likely is not OU if you do the math correctly.

Regards,
Paul

[baroutologos]

Nice definition mark! May i add, the fact that the device should operate in a novel way?
(A wind mill or a solar cell, even though plain and clear OU, or a boat sailing on the breeze is out of our interest here)

...
@Ren,
WHat is the device that goes OU by factory you mentioned? Is this possible?

Baroutologos

[ren]

Hi Ren

Sorry but there is more to it than that, if you're talking DC then yes it can be P = I x V or V x A = Watts as you mentioned but in an AC circuit it's way more complicated than that. Unfortunately I'm not able to do the math on the NST to find out if it is as it's too complicated.

I just wanted to point out that it most likely is not OU if you do the math correctly.

Regards,
Paul

Interesting Paul.

I cant see how frequency comes into play here? 15000v, 30ma at 60 Hertz or 6000000 Hertz is still 15000v @ 30ma is it not?

Of course Im no electrical engineer. So I would be happy to be schooled by someone who can do the math, assuming the math is correct that is.

@ Mark.

Now you are getting to the definition of WHAT you want to see. A self runner with output power is another book altogether imo. But at least you have clarified your goal.


Regards

[baroutologos]

Having a personal trouble and viewing my reality another way, perhaps its time to speak clearly.

I want to make a fairly easy machine (not requiring CERN topologies or advanced technology) that will create electricity without any aparent consumption of anything.

From that point on, i have some rough plans at installing the technology and sell my know-how as well as support to my local society, thus not provocing any major disturbance and reaction.
....

If you just let your experimentalist status for a moment and stand back, take a breath and with brand new eyes see what Bedini, Muller, Don Smith et all claim this is indeed.
Plain machines for almost anyone interested to make with COPS ranging from 5-10 and more without any consumption to anything. no solar panes, no earth batteries nothing!


Anyone here thinks this is the case and knows how? He will be compensated (in rational terms)


Baroutologos