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Hendershot and Hubbard
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"I found that with a pre-magnetized core, I could set up a magnetized
field that would indicate the true north, but I didn't know just how
to utilize that in the compass i set out to find." "In continuing my
experiments, I learned that by cutting the same line of magnetic force
- north and south, I had an indicator of the true north, and that by
cutting the magnetic field, east and west, I could develop a rotary
motion."
"I now have a motor built on that principle that will rotate at a
constant speed, a speed predetermined when the motor is built. It can
be built for any desired speed, and a reliable constant speed motor is
one of the greatest needs of aviation." The main secret of Mr.
Hendershot's invention, his friend, Barr Peat declares, is, "the
method of winding a magnet in the motor so that it will rotate in the
opposite direction than the earth revolves." He says there is no heat,
because magnetic forces are cold and the motor is stopped only by
breaking the magnetic field in the windings. The magnet in the motor,
he thinks probably would have to be recharged after about 2,000 hours
of operation.Comment
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The buzzer coils are key and need to be investigated further.
Half of the Answer is knowing the right QuestionComment
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reverse-engineering Hendershot's toy...
Hi,Originally posted by Gazzasore View Post
All this documentation being posted again caused me to take a look at that smaller device Hendershot built. If you think about it, this is the place to start because it represents the root of the chain of technology decisions that follow.
Tonight I had some pretty interesting insights that I'de like to pass along that might be of value in this investigation.
First let us start with the Induction Compass. Imagine your Hendershot. You get your hands on one of these. What do you do? You start taking it apart. You find different wire types in it. Some smaller gauge wire, some thicker gauge wire. You make spools of wire from these. You dis-assemble all the parts and lay them out on your table. Ok. So now these are your building blocks for making a BETTER induction compass. Remember now that your in the early nineteen hundreds. You probably have the following equipment:
* a compass or two
* some magnets
* access to a public library -- or your own books that you've collected
* some carbon batteries from the drug store
* magnifying glass
* possibly some meters like volt meters or ammeters (analog)
* possible a wein bridge for measuring things...
* slide ruler?
That is about it. Maybe some tape, rulers, etc. And your brain of course.
Ok. So now we look at these horrible pictures of his little gizmo and these recipe like instructions, for filing a patent, where the description is horrible to read with clearly redacted and confusing information. No wire gauges. No theory of operation. No circuit diagram that you can make out. No specs on the ring magnet. Its not even clear where the ring magnet is.
So here is one thing that occurs to me. Many of you younger people may not realize that Hendershot's world was an ANALOG world. If you have ever seen one of those analog volt meters or ammeters, you will notice inside there is a coil that is constructed using HAIR thin wire. This wire is magnetic yes, high value of resistance per foot, very small gauge. The induction compass would probably also have such wire. WHY?
What if your intention is to manipulate the field of a MAGNET to NULL out some or all of its effects so as to find the TRUE north. One of the equations you would have to know is:
Solenoid:
B = (u0) * N * i / L;
were B is magnetic field
u0 is magnetic constant (4*PI * 10^-7)
NOTE: Use u if not an air-coil.
N is number of turns
i is current in amps
L is length in meters
If you wanted to exactly equal the magnet you are fighting, you would set B equal to the same value your magnet has. If you didn't know that that was, you could make a test coil, and measure the current and derive B, then make a better coil.
Let us also assume that your goal here is to keep "i" as TINY as possible because your plan is to drive this thing with "radiant" energy received from a modest PLATE antenna (ala Tesla). Suppose the voltage signal you can get from your antenna is no more than say 6 millivolts and you wanted the resistance to be in the MEGOHMS (notice you can make out meghoms in that write up which had bothered me before but now it makes sense) .. your tiny current is around 6 nanoAmps. Yikes that is weak. So this engineering limit here would put a restriction on how strong a magnet you choose should be. Suppose your tiny little ring magnet was a common refrigerator magnet. These are commonly 0.001 tesla.
So given B equal to 0.001, and current 6 nAmps, how many TURNS would you need around your coil form? This is derivable. If the various values you've selected work out, you have a winning combination and things are doable. If you can't do it at this current, you either get a weaker magnet, or a stronger antenna or reduce the resistance in your wire, etc. MEGOHMS, although counter-intuitive in a generator, are appropriate for creating a small little TWEAK of the magnets field. Remember the magnet is already giving you this field - your just tweaking it. It is probably also true that perhaps your B only needs to be HALF the full strength of the magnet because perhaps only want to tweak the field of the magnet no more than half way. I'm not sure. Certainly we have a BOUNDED problem here, and with the right choices here, you can probably make it work with a very very tiny value of "i".
Now that is interesting because if you only need a small "i" to influence a much larger magnetic field and make it move, then power generation is possible to START. So what do I mean by START. Well I'm thinking all this effort was just to get the thing to START to oscillate.
I have some further speculation along these lines... that are unproven, but let me continue.
So now suppose you have made it possible such that as your system starts to oscillate, and a vibrating FLUX starts to occur in the system, that suddenly ANTENNA reception improves. Suppose, that with an oscillating flux, the control-system here suddenly changes in terms of where it is on the histerisis CURVE of the magnetic materials you've selected in your generator coils. Those coils would use the BIGGER gauge wire since they are going to carry the AC (or pulsed) power that you are generating. 20AWG is probably fine ... or thinner.
The little unreadable circuit, would take that AC and possibly convert it to DC. Using today's DIODEs, this is TRIVIAL with fullwave rectification and a capacitor. Done. In his day, he might have had to have some crazy coils stuff to do that. Thank GOD we don't have to figure that problem out using circuits from his day.
He probably had to use a GERMANIUM crystal from a crystal radio set and a cat wisker for HALF-WAVE rectification.
To get positive feedback to happen, we need a source of incoming power. It MUST be from the antenna OR it must be from the VIRTUAL antenna being created by the ever growing oscillating magnetic field. We know from the stories that his little toy was very sensitive to the orientation of the Earth's magnetic fields. This implies to me that either the footprint for his tuning, when tuned one way, goes off tuning when he turns the device OR
that there is some sort of virtual antenna effect with oscillating magnetic fields and that the Earth's field is coupling with this somehow.
Lastly, the surface area of the plate antenna is small ... but with vibrating magnetic fields NEARBY that are starting to grow in intensity, the "pickup" from such an antenna would increase in GAIN ... So this is one possible source of positive feedback ... but its not clear if it would be enough since I imagine that this thing he built was pretty tiny at first.
It would serve as a proof of concept, and then he would go on to optimize it and make it better by continuing to change things.
We do know that he went on to do a 3-inch ring magnet ... and then a 7-inch ring-magnet ....
so clearly this component is SCALING UP for more power.
He did several additional experiments and generations of development leading to...
his fuelless generator with dual coils with cylinder capacitors, solenoids, bigger strong magnets, etc. So there is CLEARLY an evolution of technological improvements here, and PROOF of redacted information, and interest from the army (pre-airforce), and a most definite high-profile debunking campaign.
One last thought to leave you with....
WHY BASKET-WEAVE COILS?
--morpher44Last edited by morpher44; 01-10-2013, 05:24 AM.Comment
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[QUOTE=morpher44;221186]Hi,
All this documentation being posted again caused me to take a look at that smaller device Hendershot built. If you think about it, this is the place to start because it represents the root of the chain of technology decisions that follow.
Tonight I had some pretty interesting insights that I'de like to pass along that might be of value in this investigation.
First let us start with the Induction Compass. Imagine your Hendershot. You get your hands on one of these. What do you do? You start taking it apart. You find different wire types in it. Some smaller gauge wire, some thicker gauge wire. You make spools of wire from these. You dis-assemble all the parts and lay them out on your table. Ok. So now these are your building blocks for making a BETTER induction compass. Remember now that your in the early nineteen hundreds. You probably have the following equipment:
* a compass or two
* some magnets
* access to a public library -- or your own books that you've collected
* some carbon batteries from the drug store
* magnifying glass
* possibly some meters like volt meters or ammeters (analog)
* possible a wein bridge for measuring things...
* slide ruler?
That is about it. Maybe some tape, rulers, etc. And your brain of course.
Ok. So now we look at these horrible pictures of his little gizmo and these recipe like instructions, for filing a patent, where the description is horrible to read with clearly redacted and confusing information. No wire gauges. No theory of operation. No circuit diagram that you can make out. No specs on the ring magnet. Its not even clear where the ring magnet is.
So here is one thing that occurs to me. Many of you younger people may not realize that Hendershot's world was an ANALOG world. If you have ever seen one of those analog volt meters or ammeters, you will notice inside there is a coil that is constructed using HAIR thin wire. This wire is magnetic yes, high value of resistance per foot, very small gauge. The induction compass would probably also have such wire. WHY?
What if your intention is to manipulate the field of a MAGNET to NULL out some or all of its effects so as to find the TRUE north. One of the equations you would have to know is:
Solenoid:
B = (u0) * N * i / L;
were B is magnetic field
u0 is magnetic constant (4*PI * 10^-7)
NOTE: Use u if not an air-coil.
N is number of turns
i is current in amps
L is length in meters
Hello morpher,
clarence,
that is quite an astute post and seeded throughout with a lot of rational and valuable information.
strictly for information gathering purpose only, what type of magnet do you mean by RING magnet? my knowledge of magnet types is limited - that is why I am asking.
Also I am in process build of a true Tesla type radient ANTENNA (24" x 24" -ruby mica {muscovite mica} insulated after being light sanded polished) according to the detailed instruction in his patent. I noticed in your post that you suggested he used high MEGOHMS resistance wire in wrapping his coils fed by whatever antenna he was using. I am going to use my antenna feed by passing it through an L1 and L2 air coil setup so I was wondering what size coil wire you might suggest.
BTW I will post my antenna system and its results on this forum when I have it finished for all to see good or bad. should be good though. may help on a hendershot build - would eliminate the cap destruct and restruct.
as always, mike,onward!Comment
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"tuned" coils...
[QUOTE=clarence;221191]Something like this:Originally posted by morpher44 View Post
Approved Vendor 10E797 Ring Magnet, 4-1/2 In Dia, Ceramic
would be a big one.
But to experiment, you can go tiny @ first and figure out if there is anything here. I plan to do that perhaps this weekend if I have time. I'm curious about the math here and Hendershot's notion of "cutting" flux East-West, etc. I can make a compass spin, so YUP ... I seem to be on the correct page ala Hendershot with this little fine-wire coil idea.
RE: coils for radiant antenna
The answer to that really boils down to what frequency you're interested in and whether or not you have "cores" in your coil, how big they are, etc.
So Tesla's patent has him pull dangling foils together for the make-break, and then PING a coil this way to induce a PULSE of high potential... and then to step that up or down, etc. Or he had this sort of mechanical thing that steps around and I can't figure out what he has there really. That guy was clever.
I think what Tesla had in mind here is that there is a potential difference that builds up due to radiant particles hitting the plate. Not unlike Benjamin Frankilin's BELL device. When the charges reach a certain potential in the capacitance that is here, you can create a spark discharge into coils.
So the coils are not wired DIRECTLY to the antenna in his scheme, unlike radio.
So if you have that periodic pulsing notion, controlled in whatever mechnical or electronic way you devise, the COILS you feed these pulses into should be "tuned", impedance-wise, to that RATE of pulses. By this I mean that the combination of the inductance in the coil(s) and the capacitance (and some capacitance is in the coil too implicitely), you have this sort of response curve that PEAKS (the so called resonant peak). You can make a band-pass filter that pass all but ONE range of frequencies, or goes the other way and attenuates all be ONE range of frequencies. So you turn the peak into a valley, for example, and the frequencies in that valley experience the lowest attenuation because the impedance goes to the lowest value (not unlike a resistor here that changes based on frequency). Tesla did everything with coils and capacitors an very few resistors. He was bad-ass!!!
So lets say your pulses are 10khz (which is pretty fast in Tesla's day -- mechanically -- but very doable with modern electronics). You would shoot for that valley being 10Khz at its lowest point, and you would also care to know how WIDE that valley is -- the so called BANDWIDTH. The ratio of resonant frequency to bandwidth is the so called Q value. By adjusting Q, you can either pass MORE or less energy. Narrow band is difficult to TUNE by highly selective, like radio. Wideband doesn't care and passes lots of energy in the wide valley -- like a gutter collecting rain water.
The real artistic challange here is that you have two conflicting LIMITs. You have the problem of how to PULSE this thing ... and its difficult to do that at a fast frequency.
You have the other artistic challenge of creating a band-pass down in whatever low frequency range you are shooting for, w/o attenuating the signal too much.
Low frequencies imply HUGE inductances, which imply HUGE coils if they are air coils. If you have to add a ferro core, now you have other problems with historisis, etc.
So there are some MATERIAL challenges here. I would go for very large inductance and try to keep capacitance small using air coils ... low resistance wire (thicker gauge).
Shoot for a very low frequency which will be EASIER to deal with in terms of pulsing. You could use a little motor that spins and has two or more pairs of metalic surfaces on a disk
for the make-break and control the RPMS of the motor to get the frequency you want down low. This is nice and controlled .. yet the Motor needs to be powered.
Good as a first experimental approach at first, however, before attempting self powered.
Read up on impedance calculations, bandpass filters using coils, capacitors, etc.
Meanwhile, may I recommend you use the the Joseph Tate ambient power module to see how well your doing:
tate ambient power module
You can hook up a known resistor load to the output of the TATE circut and measure DC voltage across it and then derive POWER.
Your goal would be to make POWER as BIG as possible -- without melting your diodes of course.Last edited by morpher44; 01-10-2013, 06:59 AM.Comment
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[QUOTE=morpher44;221192]Hello morpher44,Originally posted by clarence View Post
clarence,
thank you for your gracious and swift reply post Sir. I do follow everything in your reply. again a lot of pertinent info in a short space and do appreciate your suggested to do steps. you are correct in stateing that times permits us all as it allows despite our fanciful desires to its contrary. as you I just keep walking till I get there and enjoy the trip while Im at it. thanks again!
mike,onward!Comment
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Could you explain me what is "TRUE NORTH" ? Is this geographical North Pole ?
I mean those two questions will uncover solution :
1.What is True North ?
2. How can magnetic core point to True North ?
I simply cannot understand the induction compass basics ? Help!
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A magnetic field resist's change, so I agree amperage needs to be small, just enough to match the magnets field and let the magnets field resist the change when the pulse is off, adding to the current as it continues through the system.
If the coils were pulsed with high amperage enough to exceed the magnets field strength the coils would start to work against the magnets field.
With todays strong neo magnets we can put more in and get more out.
The magnet and buzzer coils are where the increase happens and I believe we dont need the larger coils if we pulse the system and figure out how to catch the increase into cap banks.Half of the Answer is knowing the right QuestionComment
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Difference Between True North and Magnetic North | Difference Between | True North vs Magnetic North
True north is the axis of the planet, magnetic north moves in a circle around the axis as it spins, this actually causes the magnetic grid around our planet that is represented in a geometric design called the flower of life.
They needed a compass that showed true north because it doesnt move and magnetic north moves with the precession of the planet.Half of the Answer is knowing the right QuestionComment
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