Veljko Milkovic' - 2 Stage Oscillator Self Runing Idea

[Guest]

Hi, I was watching videos of the Veljko Milkovic' - 2 Stage Oscillator and I had an idea of making a machine self run using common parts such is bicycle wheel, chain, spring and some weights. If some one is interested in replicating this, I attached a picture that I think does not need some extra explanation, but feel free to ask if some thing is not clear.


Regards,
Nenad Ilic

VMO_P1.jpg

VMO_P2.jpg

VMO_P3.jpg

[Cloxxki]

I admire the simplicity of this solution. If the setup is OU, surely an aerodynamic bike wheel and slippery tapper/pendulum surfaces should allow self-propulsion.
Your tapper as I'll call it, has the unique option of timing it. Important will be to maintain a 1:1 or 2:! ratio between wheel revolutions vs. pendulum cycles. Seems a heavy flywheel will be in order on that bike wheel, to not get in awkward timing, or low-speed taps.
It is so simply, you might well build it qourself now! (I've been told to "do it yourself" as well)
Soon I hope to be convinced the 2-stage oscillator indeed is OU by principle. I do not see this yet, many reasons for it not to be. It's a nice cyclic action, but I don't see how to take energy from the 2nd stage without slowing the 1st stage, or reducing its amplitude. If someone proves a more complicated version to be OU, I just may get out my lego set and build your version.

[Ted Ewert]

Build it.
I've tried a number of similar feedback schemes. The problem I always run into is timing. Timing is tricky.

Ted

[Matthew Jones]

I think you could beat the timing issue with a connecting rod instead of a chain. It would have to be fix on the top arm with a rotating bearing to allow it to go back and forth. That could drive the wheel in a uniform fashion. Think about an old trains piston
Expecting the wheel to free wheel into position would be hard to calculate, but fixed rotation would be easy enough to make work.

Matt

[elias]

Elecrical Feedback

Hi

Direct feedback in open systems, may not be so suitable, as it may somehow short out the "extra" energy.
I wonder about converting the hammer side energy to electricity and then driving the pendulum with a Bedini like oscillator.
I have thought about this, it can be done by using a large round Neo magnet driving up and down inside a big hollow coil, which is big enough to drive hundreds of Amperes to a step-up transformer which makes a reasonable voltage to drive the pendulum. I also understand the COP of the this system must go up as we increase the weight of the pendulum.

I have done some preliminary tests and it is evident that by using a wire with large diameter and by about 100 turns one can make up to 100 amps (according to the impedance of the coil which must be in this case about 0.01 ohms) and 1 volts of amplitude. To do this we need about 100Kg of weight hanging from the pendulum. (only some approximations).

This energy can be used to charge capacitors and then drive the pendulum, with minimal energy.

Good luck
Elias

[Matthew Jones]

Direct feedback in open systems, may not be so suitable, as it may somehow short out the "extra" energy.

Ya he does say that in this paper

Matt

[Cloxxki]

A far-fetched idea I had was with water, or metal balls.
At the bottom of the swing, the pendumum which is a container for water or balls, releases 1 unit of weight, and pumps up on unit of weight (stacked or otherwise), to be dropped from above. The pumped+dropped weight is timed such, that it falls in the container JUST at the top of a swing, adding inertia to the pendulum. If indeed OU by any factor, the pumped+added weight can be greater than released weight at the bottom. Or releasing weights can simply be done away with. The pendulum fills itself up as it keeps swinging, and can do more and more work on the 2nd stage.

[quantumuppercut]

Ya, those pics looks nice. What program did you use to do it?

Thanks Matt for the paper. I haven't read all of it but I think the problem is the weight have to go down in order to restore the pendulum speed. If we see the weight as a load, then we can see the path up as 1 load and the return path as another load. If we apply this to a generator, we can make 1 load on the path up, but the generator has to return that load. It's back to recylce the energy we put in. Since the mass is unchange, this is automatic recycle, therefore yield unity. But if we apply this to the Anslie or Bedini circuit, they all recyle the current and still make extra torque or heat. So the heat or torque does not comes from the energy input but rather comes from the change of that energy state. Apply this to the 2 stage oscillator, we have to mess around with the weight. The only way to do this is dual pendulum, but the mathematic, even on computer yield chaos oscillation. In short, we have to understand exactly how dual oscillation works. Hope this helps.

[Naboo]

I hope you're all watching the progress which Rhead is making on his setup. As he stated it in his letter to Milkovic, it is not about "if", but "when" he will complete the unit and make it self-sustained.

The grandfather clock will be used to accomplish this, but it will probably be a lot bigger then most are used to
Julian