EPA's Lisa Jackson

[future pather]

What I find "amazing" is people who claim to be for clean energy bashing the government for making progress towards it.

[broli]

If it wasn't for the government and their infinite hunger for control we would be visiting other galaxies by now. Maybe you should be taught through a lesson you will never forget that politicians never did and never will solve problems with sweat talk.

[Web000x]

@future pather

Im not bashing or insulting you by any means, but it does seem to me that all of the GOOD renewable energy sources are covered up by the government.

Dave

[rickoff]

My thoughts on emissions trading

At first glance, the ideas behind emissions trading (or "Cap and Trade") would appear to be sound reasoning. Businesses are given a "cap" figure which tells them the limit of pollutants they are legally allowed to emit. Those businesses which exceed their cap figure can only do so, without paying fines, by purchasing "emissions credits" from other businesses which are either non-polluting by nature, or which have reduced their own pollution emissions and now have credits to sell. This seems as though it would logically result in a reduction of pollution emissions, as it can be reasoned that "green" companies would be rewarded while polluters pay the price of those rewards. But is this really effective at cleaning things up? I really don't think so, because it actually enables the worst corporate pulluters by providing a means whereby they may legally increase pollution and poisoning of our environment. The industries which cause the greatest amount of pollution (petrochemical, cement, agriculture, to name a few) and the worst kinds of pollution, are very lucrative and have no problem buying up emissions credits. Any increase in operating costs is simply passed on to the consumer. Corporations have no problem with carbon taxes, and emissions trading only results in a windfall for them.

What is really needed is across the board demands by EPA for all businesses, both large and small, to continually reduce harmful and toxic emissions. It's fine to offer incentives to companies that are willing to go green, but paying for those incentives by allowing polluting industries to increase pollution is insane.

In its early years, the EPA was an enforcement agency which accomplished clean up goals by prosecuting violators of environmental law. That worked, and resulted in massive pollution reductions which helped to clean up our environment. In more recent years, the EPA has shifted to a tactic of easing regulations, and working with businesses to achieve voluntary compliance by offering incentives. This isn't working well, and is like offering bank robbers a bag of pennies if they will keep their hands off the silver dollars. Under the present course, we the consumers will end up paying the carbon taxes which corporations will pass along to us in the form of higher prices for food and products, and their obscene profits and pollution will go on unabated.

Rick

[carbideTip]

"Cap and Trade" will be another bait and switch money scam. I can see the corruption now.

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Jessica;

What I find "amazing" is people who claim to be for clean energy bashing the government for making progress towards it.

What I find amazing is that you don't understand the government at all levels is the biggest impediment to developing clean energy and clean alternative fuels, even after people on The Forum have shown and explained it to you many times.

Well, here are 2 links which show 3 examples. The first is the Garrett carbuerator which ran his car on straight water in 1935! I know a man here who has seen the old Movietone news reels of Garrett's demonstration run using lake water. Why are we still using gasoline and diesel?

The second shows the Pogue carb. invented in 1935, which enabled 200 mpg using gasoline. See what happened to it.

The third, which story is recounted in the same article, was last year. Paul had a device which ran a boat on water. I and Rickoff have both chatted with him on-line and I believe Rick has spoken to him on the phone, plus I saw his device and it's sale on E-bay. So I know this story to be true.


Garrett Water Carburetor - 01-12-98.htm - Windows Live

Welcome to St. Mary's Today Online Edition!

Would you like more examples? I would gladly give you more, as I am sure others would, if it would help to open your eyes to the fact that the government is in league with BIG business to the exclusion of, yea even the suppression of, anything other than that which they totally control for their maximum benefit(profit) and get you to believe it.

Look at the interview you posted with Lisa of the FDA. First thing she mentions is they are giving away $30 million tax dollars towards biodiesel, which gives lower mpg (so you burn more of it) while emitting more co2 than gasoline and driving the price of food up due to the increased price of corn .
Why are they still producing it? Government tax subsidies, while the same government declares co2 a major pollution factor!

Look at the interview with Bill Mahr you posted. He picked up on and made fun of his hybrid car, pointing out that the electricity he plugged into to recharge it came from a polluting power co. somewhere. And if you buy one with a fuel cell producing the electricity you are sitting on the same devise that nearly blew Apollo 13 out of the sky. You want to ride around on one of those?

Finally, I am not trying to pick a fight, demean or insult you, and yes you are entitled to your own opinions. Just remember, on the list of the world's biggest lies, #2 is "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you".

Al

[rickoff]

Paul Zigouras Device

Here's a photo showing the Hydrogen generating device that Al mentioned, as made by Paul Zigouras:



Yes, as you can see, this device is very real. The description of the device, in Paul Zigouras' own words reads,
"This is a large, experimental electrolysis device that converts large volumes of water to HHO gas (hydrogen + oxygen) using only direct current electricity. This unit is only about 13 x 13 x 15 inches, but is very heavy (weighs almost 50 pounds). The container houses three banks of electrolysis cells, and the wiring is completely self-contained. The unit is explosion-resistant, although it is not 100% explosion proof. Three sides are clear so you can monitor the process. All six panels are between [approx] 3/4-inch to 1.5-inch thick, so this unit can be pressurized to boost the efficiency of the process.

The unit is clean, because we only used distilled water to test it. It produces enough gas to run most internal combustion engines, and other devices that require hydrogen and oxygen as a fuel."

Paul felt that his device was better suited for marine engine use than for running automobile engines, and that is because of the large amount of water consumed. He believed it would be impractical to haul along sufficient quantities of water in an automobile, since the engine would continuously be blowing reformed water out the exhaust. Of course there is no reason why the exhaust can not be recaptured, and the reformed water reused. Many experiments have shown that the reformed water further increases the efficiency of hydrolysis, and the inherent quality of the Hydrogen produced.

I believe that a bill needs to be introduced and passed which would immediately release all suppressed technologies which show a strong promise of clean, inexpensive, and sustainable energy. If the Zigouras device were adopted nationwide for use in all existing and new internal combustion engines, it would have a four fold effect that would solve a great many of the problems that we now face:
1. The switch to on-demand production of Hydrogen fuel would completely eliminate our dependence on foreign oil within a very short period of time. The units could be mandated on all new cars, and offered as a 100% tax credit incentive on used cars.
2. The nation's worries over carbon pollution would largely vanish. One gallon of gas burned = 19 pounds of CO2, while burning Hydrogen produces none. In fact, atmospheric air entering the engine's intake will leave the engine in a purified state, thus helping to further clean up existing air pollution.
3. The economic implications would be tremendous. The money saved by using water as fuel would dramatically increase our standard of living through having more spendable and savable income, would have the effect of making virtually all food and products less expensive through savings in operating farm machinery, savings in transportation of food and other products, and reduced manufacturing costs.
4. This technology would also be easily adapted to home energy solutions to provide heat, hot water, and electricity.

As you can clearly see, there is no good reason for our nation not to pursue deployment and further development of this technology vigorously, rather than to throw needless billions of dollars away on projects that will do little or nothing to solve our most serious problems.

With these facts in mind, is there anyone here who still believes that our government and corporations are doing a great job of looking out for our best interests, and working towards real solutions to the economic, environmental, and energy woes that we face? And if not, then ask yourself who stands to benefit from their trickery and treachery?

Rick

[ANTIQUER]

Zigouras device

Rick;

Thanks for the photo of Paul's device and the followup info. Great job! I'd like to also acknowledge it was you who put together the collation of info. on Garrett that I posted. A second thank you for that.

Have you heard or seen anymore from Paul since his initial posting last spring about his latest version of this device?

Al

[future pather]

What is really needed is across the board demands by EPA for all businesses, both large and small, to continually reduce harmful and toxic emissions.
Rick

Was wondering how you see this as different from what she is saying.

[future pather]

Hi Jessica;

What I find amazing is that you don't understand the government at all levels is the biggest impediment to developing clean energy and clean alternative fuels, even after people on The Forum have shown and explained it to you many times.

Lisa discusses how the Bush administration has done that and how things are different now. I understand there are those here who don't believe it but it doesn't mean everyone has to agree on that.

[rickoff]

Reply to Jessica:

Was wondering how you see this as different from what she is saying.

She is talking about the Cap on emissions as somehow improving things environmentally by going after the big polluters through imposition of these caps, which are limits on the total emissions these big polluters are allowed to legally spew out. That sounds fine and dandy to those who don't understand how Cap and Trade actually works, but I think that if you take a moment to read my post # 19 on that subject you would agree that this plan will only result in the big polluters spewing out even more pollution than they do now. That's why I say that mandated and enforced across the board reductions in pollution is the only realistic cure to the problem.

Rick

[ANTIQUER]

Lisa is a typical team player; in this case the team is the democratic party led by Obama. So of course it is all the previous administrations doing or lack thereof. The problem with that is the Democrats have controlled the congress for the last 8 years, and the congress is primarily responsible for domestic affairs; they make the policy and control the money. The presidency is primarily in charge of foreign policy.

The main point here is that it does not matter which party is in power. Read the info. on the Pogue carb. in the 2nd link . It was invented in 1935, disappeared until WWII, re-appeared briefly on armored vehicles in N. Africa, then disappeared again.

Also, this is not only a U.S. problem, it is worldwide. Yule Brown invented a welding torch in Australia that ran on water. When he would not sell out to the big international corporations, he began having all kinds of problems, including the mortgage on his house being called in early and bullets flying through his kitchen.

But back to the U.S. with a question to ponder. Based only on the 3 examples I gave you, considering the technology available to Detroit, and the fact that U.S. taxpayers now own much of the auto industry and surely many in the administration have knowledge of the tech. involved in these 3 devices why do we not hear even a mention of them from any gov't. official at any level, much less any tax dollars to at least research them?

Al

[Aaron]

environmental pollution and solutions

General Motors supposedly is the largest owner of 3rd party patents that they have bought out and shelved over the years. Supposed to be more than GE and many other companies.

There is a family friend here in town that has an uncle that worked for GM for many, many years. He was very open about the fact that it was the POLICY to build low efficiency vehicles because there is more profit long term from replacement parts, etc... and more profits to the oil companies that they are absolutely in deals with. I think it not some conspiracy theory but common sense that any company simply doesn't want to sabotage their own income stream - it is just a business decision based on greed and no responsibility whatsoever. But it isn't often that one gets to talk to someone that was there in a position to know this from the inside.

Many patents are energy solutions, but of course this kind of thing jeopardizes their recurring income since the corporations make money on problems, sick people, etc...

Now that the US Govt owns GM (government motors), it would therefore be owned by the American people.

Does that mean that We The People are now the proud owners of all those patent rights to technologies that do provide solutions? lol

Where do I place my order?

[rickoff]

General Motors supposedly is the largest owner of 3rd party patents that they have bought out and shelved over the years. Supposed to be more than GE and many other companies.

Now that the US Govt owns GM (government motors), it would therefore be owned by the American people.

Does that mean that We The People are now the proud owners of all those patent rights to technologies that do provide solutions? lol

Where do I place my order?

Those are good questions, Aaron, and logical questions to ask. Unfortunately, if we were to write and ask our elected representatives those questions I doubt that we would get any answers. Still, I'm game to write them and ask anyways, and to post any reply (or non-reply) that is forthcoming. Any one else?

Rick

[Go Diesel USA]

If it wasn't for the government and their infinite hunger for control we would be visiting other galaxies by now. Maybe you should be taught through a lesson you will never forget that politicians never did and never will solve problems with sweat talk.

haha!! true.. im a big fan of exploring space, but it's sooooo far down the spending chain... has been for years