The American Ruling Class

[rickoff]

While I have no respect for any so-called "royalty," who assume that they are better than anyone else and that it is their birthright to rule over others born into less fortunate circumstances, I can understand why the British people would hold Obama in disdain for his lack of diplomacy at a recent state dinner at Buckingham Palace. Can you imagine a foreign head of state coming to America and giving a speech at the same time that our National Anthem is being played? It would understandably raise a lot of eyebrows, and the press would have a field day with such a news item, and yet when Obama did this very thing while the British national anthem was being played, the American press remained silent. You wouldn't know it happened unless you saw the BBC broadcast of the event, which was captured in the video which follows.

In this video of Obama toasting Queen Elizabeth, he has already given a speech (using idex size cards, because his teleprompter was not handy) and then asks everyone to "please stand with me and raise your glasses as I propose a toast. [long pause as he waits for all to stand] - To her majesty, the queen." Naturally, the orchestra leader sees this as a prompt to begin playing God Save The Queen, the British national anthem. Despite hearing the music begin, and seeing everyone in the room standing at attention, Obama incredibly begins talking again, and continues talking until he notices the queen staring at him with an offended look on her face, at which point he stops talking and puts his glass on the table. Evidently, the bumbling idiot Obama thought that the orchestra was simply playing some nice background music to compliment his speech. What a jackass! After the anthem, Obama and the queen both pick up their glasses and tip them towards each other, but neither takes a sip to drink the toast.

[rickoff]

A prime example of government agency abuse

John and Judy Dollarhite, of Nixa Montana, started raising rabbits in 2006 as a project to teach their teenage son the responsibilities and rewards of starting and operating a small business. At first, their son raised the rabbits for meat sales to local markets, but soon neighbors began buying the animals as pets. As the business grew, the young lad was approached by a pet store that offered to buy rabbits. By 2008, the boy's annual sales of pet rabbits had grown to more than $500. Now that's definitely not what I would call a large commercial enterprise, but the US Department of Agriculture thought so and decided it was time to pay the Dollarhite family a visit. The USDA agent told the Dollarhite's that they had violated a law requiring that anyone wanting to sell more than $500 worth of rabbits to a pet store is considered a "wholesale breeder of pet animals" and by law must obtain a special license from the USDA. The USDA agent also informed the Dollarhites that their rabbit cages were "1/4 inch less than regulation size," and that they would therefore have to buy or build all new equipment if they wanted to continue raising rabbits.

Rather than tearing down the existing cages, constructing new ones, and applying for the USDA license, the Dollarhites decided to simply call it quits with the rabbit business, and figured that would be the end of their harrassment by the USDA. They figured wrong! The USDA has levied a fine of $90,643 against the Dollarhite family. What happens next is anyone's guess, but the USDA isn't likely to back down. Unable to afford paying such a steep fine, the family would likely face losing their ranch, as well as possibly serving some jail time for violating the obscure law if the USDA continues to press their case.

It really is time for the USDA, and many other wasteful, unnecessary, and abusive federal government agencies, to be eliminated.

[aljhoa]

In this video of Obama toasting Queen Elizabeth, he has already given a speech (using idex size cards, because his teleprompter was not handy) and then asks everyone to "please stand with me and raise your glasses as I propose a toast. [long pause as he waits for all to stand] - To her majesty, the queen." Naturally, the orchestra leader sees this as a prompt to begin playing God Save The Queen, the British national anthem. Despite hearing the music begin, and seeing everyone in the room standing at attention, Obama incredibly begins talking again,

Forget the protocol or the pomp,
US President was still speaking
("To her majesty the Queenand" "The vitality" - he said before the orchestra began)
it was rude to interrupt him.

Here Burke reminds us that the Star Spangled Banner, in fact, comes from a rather bawdy and salatious drinking song known as "The Anacreontic Song" (or "To Anacreon in Heaven") - Lyrics by Ralph Tomlison Esq. as an ode to the 6th century Greek poet Anacreon who apparently had similar interests)
YouTube - ‪James Burke Classic : US National Anthem is Drinking Song‬‏

Al

[dutchdivco]

Rick

I know you began this thread by saying you don't watch much TV, but,....
I saw a clip of Obamas faux pas with the queen several times, on the evening news, and not just on Fox.Granted, they cut it down to just the essence, but thats about sound bites, not censorship; he still looked like an ass, or at least a rube.Paired with his wifes touching the queen, the last time they visited, gotta say "bad staff work", at the very least.
You might can expect and allow for some of these things, with a new Pres. (and a new staff), but come on! They've been in there (The White house) long enough to have worked the kinks out. This is just amateur hour.Jim

[dutchdivco]

Dollarhite story ?'s

I have no way of knowing where you got the information, but some ?'s arise.
I have heard stories for years, about 'puppie mills' run by unscrupulous breeders, producing puppies for pet stores, producing puppies with congenital defects, diseases and keeping them under cruel conditions, etc.And, I have heard that law enforcement has attempted to shut such operations down, and when they do, the operators just move to a new location, and start up again.I suppose some legislation COULD have been written, charging a Federal agency with enforcing this, so the operators couldn't simply move to another state, and I SUPPOSE the USDA could have been the agency designated.Maybe.
However, in the story, as presented, it states that the Dollarhites were first raising these rabbits to sell to local meat markets. Such markets don't usually recieve live animals; Cattle, chickens OR rabbits, for that matter. Usually, they recieve slaughtered carcasses.Their supplier, (in this case the Dollarhites) slaughter the animals, skinning, gutting and removing the heads, prior to selling the meat to the retailer.
All such operations are supposed to be inspected by the USDA, in order to insure e.coli, salmanella etc. aren't spread.This is CLEARLY in the perview of the USDA.So, I suspect these fines MAY involve violations in this vain, RATHER than raising rabbits for sale to pet stores.One would need to investigate more, but this makes more 'sense' to me.
Now, one can certainly criticise the USDA for doing a LOUSY job of this; The 'downer' cows that were being pushed into the 'assembly line' at the meat packing plant, the salmonella tainted peanut butter, the e.coli in the spinach, the list goes on and on.
However, such agregious failures also clearly illustrate that there are unscrupulous food processors. Therefore, SOMEBODY needs to be monitoring what they are doing, in order to TRY to keep 'bad' food off the market.
One can fantasise that everyone SHOULD be growing and processing all their own food; in order to insure that its both nutrisious and untainted.Not the reality, however. Reality is the vast majority of 'us' buy our foods from others, and are at the recieving end of a long supply chain, involving growers/raisers, processors, transporters, wholesalers and distributors.
So Rick, are you saying that the USDA is unecesary because we should all just trust that our food is untainted, and we don't need any stinking inspectors, or that we 'should' all produce our own food, making such a Dept. unecesary, (True, but unrealistic) , or what? Jim

[Slider2732]

For those of us born in the UK, Royalty has always been just a fact of things...like starting the word with a capital R for example. As a low down popular opinion on the streets, they often amount to a money earner when stared at by tourists, fill tabloid papers with some kind of regular scandal or other and increase sales of little plastic flags.
A very antiquated setup of rich folk being rich, who we're supposed to understand psychologically for the 'awful strains' they are under by being subject to daily public scrutiny.
I, myself, apparently have lineage back to 1066 and the Battle of Hastings, perhaps earlier by some reports. Anchatil de Grey was apparently a Knight of William the Conqueror and came over to Britain for the action (after some land was given to him for an alleged affair relating to Mr. Conqueror no less)...married a Welsh woman after he'd done fighting and along went the family tree. Somewhere, it incorporates possible ancestry with Earl Grey of tea fame and Lady Jane Grey of being beheaded fame. Any of it true ? I don't know, legend and myth, much like the antique hangings on to Royalty in the UK - and the UK TV license fee..
BUT, that was a really dumb protocol lapse by the USA President, no matter what the occasion or company he was within. It's not as though the National Anthem was in the Top 40 in the pop hits parade a few years back and now is obscure !
People in Britain generally feel no need to stand when the tune is played, like some kind of knee reactions test at a doctor's surgery, yet anyone would realise a National Anthem of another country.

The USDA is part of the economic mess - if they truly won't work with and assist those persons with such businesses. Help not attack. . Back to Britain again for a moment...if there was anything that Thatcher did as Prime Minister for Britain, it was opening out the possibilities and availabilities for small businesses to flourish. She was crap in many ways, yet did leave the understanding that if you had a good idea and could bring forth fresh thinking, manage accounts and offer a decent service, that you would be supported as a business.
The USDA wants what then ? huge corporations, genetic meddlings, profits procurement at any public health cost and tons of tax payer cash to use as they see fit ?
It's just like legal immigration from anywhere other than Mexico - one mistake, whether real or created by them and you are hammered into the ground.
Why do many outfits and people in the USA set out purposefully to look stupid ? I mean, it has to be on purpose right ?

[rickoff]

One can fantasise that everyone SHOULD be growing and processing all their own food; in order to insure that its both nutrisious and untainted. Not the reality, however. Reality is the vast majority of 'us' buy our foods from others, and are at the recieving end of a long supply chain, involving growers/raisers, processors, transporters, wholesalers and distributors.

So Rick, are you saying that the USDA is unecesary because we should all just trust that our food is untainted, and we don't need any stinking inspectors, or that we 'should' all produce our own food, making such a Dept unnecessary, (True, but unrealistic), or what? Jim

Surely there should be controls in place to assure food safety, but I see this as better done by state and/or county agencies rather than a federal agency. Also, the fine imposed on the Dollarhite family by the USDA had nothing to do with their meat production and sales. It was strictly about their failure to obtain a USDA commercial breeder's license to breed and sell pet animals. Interestingly, the pet shop that bought and sold most of the pet rabbits that were produced by the Dollarhites was exempt from the requirement, since the animals originated elsewhere. The law that applies is found in a 1966 Animal Welfare Act, and was intended to prevent the cruelty that is often found exposed at facilities known as "puppy mills," where the only object is to grind out as many animals as possible in the shortest period of time, and where overcrowding and unsanitary conditions are rampant. The Dollarhites, it should be noted, were never charged with animal abuse, and by all accounts ran a very clean and professional operation in which the animals were very well cared for.

[rickoff]

Forget the protocol or the pomp,
US President was still speaking
("To her majesty the Queenand" "The vitality" - he said before the orchestra began)
it was rude to interrupt him.

Yes, he clearly said "To her majesty the Queen," after which there was a two second silence before he started speaking again, a split second before you hear the music. During that two seconds of silence, though, the orchestra leader has already heard the toast, "To her majesty the Queen," which is his cue to begin the national anthem. He faces the orchestra, raises his baton, sets the tempo, and the orchestra is then already committed to playing the anthem, even before the actual music begins. And once you start a national anthem, you don't cut it off just because some jackass wants to speak. The conductor was not being rude to Obama. Obama was the rude one. He should have saved his toast "To her majesty the Queen," until he was all done speaking, but failing to do so, and hearing the anthem begin, he should have ceased speaking any further until the anthem concluded. If QE had not cast a couple of glances his way, as if to say, "what in hell are you doing, you moron," he probably would never have shut up and set his glass down on the table.

[dutchdivco]

Rick

"Surely there should be controls in place to assure food safety, but I see this as better done by state and/or county agencies rather than a federal agency."
The big peanut butter scandal, was a result of STATE inspectors 'falling down on the job'.Due to cutbacks, the USDA turned actual inspection over to local (State) inspectors. And the state cut back funding, as well.
On the other hand, I believe the only way the 'Downer cattle being shoved with forklifts' thing came to light, was because an employee video'd it, and blew the whistle.Being a meat packing plant, it would have been one that SHOULD have had USDA inspectors, rather than state inspectors, I believe.
So, local (or state Inspectors) are not necesarily any better than Federal in spectors, or any worse.
As for the Dollarhites, I would be wondering; Why DIDN'T the USDA get involved, back when they were just raising rabbits, to sell to local meat markets? How is it that they (apperently) only got involved, when they started selling them to pet stores?
As for busting unscrupulous 'puppy mills' our Sherriff (Sherrif Joe) has developed the best division in the US, for investigating and prosecuting animal cruelty cases.However, if 'puppy mills' will simply shut down and cross state lines, in order to avoid prosecution, I suppose some Federal authority must get involved.Probably shouldn't be the USDA.
I suspect its possible the Dollarhites could get a reduction, if not elimination of the fine, by sending a letter to the USDA saying they had ceased all operations.It MAY be like OSHA; when they inspect a business, and find safety violations, they issue a citation, with a fine.Often quite high. They then return in 2 weeks for a second inspection. If the 'infractions' have been corrected, the fine is reduced significantly.The Dollarhites ceasing to raise rabbits would be the equivalent of 'correcting' and might result in a reduced fine.Next step, call their Congressmen.As you pointed out earlier, Congressmen LOVE this kind of thing.They figure its a guaranteed vote for them, if they can resolve a problem like this.Granted, the problem never should have got to this level in the first place,....but.As soon as you make rules, for everyone to follow, for the common good, there will always be situations like this, where selective enforcement MAY be appropriate.
Jim

[Bizzy]

Government agencies

Lets face it our government has gotten out of control plain and simple.
Our tax code is so complicated the common tax payer can be guilty of infractions and not even know it.
We are practically strip searched and sexually assaulted when we board planes within our own borders.
Families can't raise and sell rabbits for a little extra spending money and to teach thier kids about life lessons.
It seems almost every day there is a story about a government agency abusing a citizen who was innocently going about his or her own business, not hurting a soul until they come on the radar of some government agency then their lives become a living hell.
There are too many laws for the common person to know or obey. We are literally regulated from the craddle to the grave. Whether local state or federal government we are being regulated and herded like sheep.

When my wife and I started making home made wine we made it for ourselves and to give away to freinds. It wasnt until a freind mentioned to us that we could only produce 250 gallons per year before we would have to get a liquer manufacturing liscene and invite a county health inspector to look us over
Fortunately we only make 180 gallons a year.
The situation will not improve until our elected officials reign in the blotted federal agnecies and thier over zealous regulations. However that requires courage and common sence both of which are saddly lacking in D.C.

In fact we are so over regulated as a people I challange anyone to give one example of a part of our life which is not regulated by the government in one form or another. If you can give me an undisputed example I'll send you a bottle of our home made mead.(but only if you live in the US, the government regulates export of alcohol)
Bizzy

[Aaron]

AVAAZ.org

I'm not familiar with this organization - but look at some of the progress they've help make in some countries: Avaaz - Highlights

Imagine that, a law making x-cons inelligable to run for office.

[Slider2732]

Entirely why i'm in such a tizz Bizzy !
I guess every law and procedure will be ironed out on all fronts at some point in the future...and then we nuke ourselves.

Got a beer brewing kit in the shed, that has sat there for about a year. I daren't open it and get the stuff together to start the brewing. Without knowledge of what the mail may bring daily, or the lack of answer when USCIS were asked on the phone whether suits would turn up at the door, i've just left it there...fermenting by itself most probably.
I had wished to begin a Real Ales festival in Tulsa, to be known as Tulsales...a regional beer, wines and ciders festival and, because of brewing experience back in England and CAMRA membership, felt it a good opportunity for micro-brewers to show off their creations. That idea would never work because of legislation it seems...but again is hopefully another example of my small business ideas. Point being, I daren't think like a small business owner or an organiser, personal worth is lessened each time a bright spark of a thought comes along..

How does one acquire a bottle of that Bizzy Mead ?
Hmm...

Long pause

An unregulated part of our lives might be bedroom athletics ! As far as I am aware, a couple may draw the curtains and do as they wish.
*EDIT* wait, let me qualify that - a heterosexual non married male and female non married partner

[aljhoa]

In this video of Obama toasting Queen Elizabeth, he has already given a speech (using idex size cards, because his teleprompter was not handy) and then asks everyone to "please stand with me and raise your glasses as I propose a toast. [long pause as he waits for all to stand] - To her majesty, the queen." Naturally, the orchestra leader sees this as a prompt to begin playing God Save The Queen, the British national anthem.

Yes, he clearly said "To her majesty the Queen," after which there was a two second silence before he started speaking again, a split second before you hear the music. During that two seconds of silence, though, the orchestra leader has already heard the toast, "To her majesty the Queen," which is his cue to begin the national anthem.

The conductor was not being rude to Obama. Obama was the rude one. He should have saved his toast "To her majesty the Queen," until he was all done speaking, but failing to do so, and hearing the anthem begin, he should have ceased speaking any further until the anthem concluded. If QE had not cast a couple of glances his way, as if to say, "what in hell are you doing, you moron," he probably would never have shut up and set his glass down on the table.

Notice that at after the "background" music stopped, President showed displeasure by not drinking.
What are the odds that President’s stuff did not know the correct protocol or did not rehearse?
What are the odds that this was not orchestrated?
What happened to the phrase "God Save the Queen" as cue?

KikesInTheCupboard: And You Thought They Were British - HA!

Al

[rickoff]

As for the Dollarhites, I would be wondering; Why DIDN'T the USDA get involved, back when they were just raising rabbits, to sell to local meat markets?

Probably because they didn't know about it. At first the kid was just selling some rabbit meat to a few neighbors. The neighbors had seen the operation, and they weren't worried about food safety. Same with the market that later began buying rabbit meat. And normally the USDA doesn't even get involved unless there are reports of people getting sick after eating certain foods.

How is it that [USDA] apparently only got involved, when [the Dollarhites] started selling them to pet stores?

That's because they were checking the buying records of the pet store that was being supplied with rabbits from the Dollarhite ranch.

The Dollarhites ceasing to raise rabbits would be the equivalent of 'correcting' and might result in a reduced fine. Next step, call their Congressmen. As you pointed out earlier, Congressmen LOVE this kind of thing. They figure its a guaranteed vote for them, if they can resolve a problem like this.

They actually did contact their senator, Claire McCaskill, to ask her to intervene on their behalf. McCaskill phoned Judy Dollarhite, and when she realized that there was an ongoing rally in support of the Dollarhites, attended by about 60 people, (and seeing the political opportunity to sweet talk the crowd) she agreed to have her voice broadcast to the crowd over a megaphone, saying, "It's ridiculous! It's embarrassing, and it is wrong for the federal government to treat people this way, and I am calling Judy to tell her that I have gotten an indication from the USDA that they will back off the bullying position that they have taken, and I think we are gonna be able to get this resolved in a way that makes much more sense. ------- This is way overstepping the bounds, in terms of the federal government." The crowd of supporters cheered after hearing McCaskill would go to bat for the Dollarhites, but just how much can they expect her to accomplish. Normally, federal agencies respond favorably to requests from senators, but McCaskill is in a bit of hot water herself after having failed to pay income taxes she owed. The feds may just tell her that she is the one who needs to back off.

The Dollarhite family had up until May 24 to pay the $96,000 fine that was imposed, and were warned by USDA that if they did not pay that amount then they would face fines totaling about 4 million dollars! Needless to say, they didn't pay the fine. Instead, they had their lawyer send a refusal notice to USDA, which states, "My client rejects that proposal. I note that a descriptive pamphlet enclosed with your letter states, under 'Who We Are', that IES investigates cases received by referral from APHIS program clients and cooperators, and that IES 'now conducts more than 6,000 cases and collects approximately $ 2 million in civil penalties annually.' That averages a penalty of $ 333.33 per case, and yet you contend it would be appropriate my client tender a penalty of $ 90,643."

Near the end of the letter, he added the following:

"I cannot imagine that the actions of Mr. Dollarhite would merit a fine or penalty that would be 272 times larger than what the 'average' fine ($ 333) collected by the USDA, IES, APHIS would be, under the circumstances of this case, and would certainly hope that a reasonable hearing examiner would agree."

It should be noted that the Dollarhites were always in full compliance with Missouri laws, which did not require a license for their operation, and never sold rabbits over state lines.

[rickoff]

I'm not familiar with this organization - but look at some of the progress they've help make in some countries: Avaaz - Highlights

Imagine that, a law making x-cons inelligable to run for office.

Does that mean that only current or future cons can run for office?