The American Ruling Class

[Aaron]

barter

Taxes getting on your nerves? You fundamentally have to understand that what is being taxed is your incomes in monetary terms.
You do not want to be taxed, dont accept money as a payment.

A tax attorney friend told me years ago about something like "constructive
income" that barter, property or whatever else that is considered to be
received whether it is claimed or not is taxable. It was something like
that anyway.

I don't see how it could ever be inforced for simple barter because there
is almost never any paperwork on it.

[Mozaar]

Much easier said than done. Without money in hand, what will you do after you load up your shopping cart with groceries and arrive at the checkout? What will you do when your car requires a gas refill? What will you do when you require any other goods and services that can only be purchased with money? And if you don't accept money as payment for goods or services that you have supplied to others, then what would you accept as an alternative to money? To think that you could possibly barter trade for everything you need is not realistically possible. Try it next time you go shopping, and see how far you get with the cashier or store owner.

Well there is not much we can do about the abuse of monetary policy is there? There are people that talk about backing the currency with gold, how will that work? How much gold can a dollar buy today? Then again will it not flunctuate in value all the time. Basically, the economic development of a country is based on the value of the currency and the competency of the debt market. The rules are always bent all the time because currency backed by nothing really does not mean nothing. Thinking that a country like Haiti is poor for any other reason than that of an inefficient debt market and a resulting feeble currency is plain silly. Hernando de Soto of Peru showed how by giving the people the simple concept of property rights, people now had the means to open businesses and live a more prosperous life.
So yes, we need to retrace our steps and think of ASSETS, thats if you really serious about taking back this country from the Fed, IRS and the likes. This fiat money thing has gotten things pretty messy.
Keep your mind on Love and Peace!

[rickoff]

@ Mozaar - You haven't answered the questions. Without some form of payment that will be readily and universally accepted by others, what will you do?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi rickoff, Hi mozaar. You have some good thoughts mozaar. Rickoff, I understand your views and im sure im not going to dazzle you with anything you may not already know, however when all is said and done, if each of us does not give freely our labor, time and ideas that would benefit the good of all, then one will continue to live in a reality field such as this one. Money or debt as the case is today, or any other intermediary tool which functions as an exchange device between humans will always devolve into the situation we experience today. Now as far as what will one do when at the grocery store, simple, take what is rightfully yours by divine inheritance. After all, nothing can truly be paid for since all we have is promise to pays or debt notes, therefore it must already be paid for and it truly is. Do we honestly believe that food grown by mother earth and fed with the energies of the cosmos can be claimed ownership by any one individual here on this planet. And this same idea applies to everything you see and the resultant energy of thought that manifested it all.
peace love light
Tyson

[rickoff]

Rickoff, I understand your views and im sure im not going to dazzle you with anything you may not already know, however when all is said and done, if each of us does not give freely our labor, time and ideas that would benefit the good of all, then one will continue to live in a reality field such as this one.

Yes, that's true, but the reality is that not everyone will do that. Many will prefer to do nothing beneficial for themselves, their family, or society, as is the case now. Furthermore, I am talking about what is relevant to our situation now, and not at some idealistic time many decades in the future. One can not live today in the manner that you or Mozaar suggest, and not likely for quite some time to come.

Now as far as what will one do when at the grocery store, simple, take what is rightfully yours by divine inheritance. After all, nothing can truly be paid for since all we have is promise to pays or debt notes, therefore it must already be paid for and it truly is.

Tell that to the cashier or store manager. And what would be their incentive to stay in business if you and everyone else went back every day to take what you feel "is rightfully yours?" Someone worked hard to grow and harvest that food, another brought it to market, and the grocer has a tangible investment in those items. All those who have made the food available to us deserve credit for their hard work. In simply walking in to the store and taking those items, what have you done to deserve them? I can understand if you are willing to exchange something that you have, or are willing to do something for these groceries, but surely it would not be fair unless the grocer agrees to such an exchange. I can understand and appreciate a community "farmer's market" concept, where everyone brings something to exchange for something else they want, but the idea of simply taking what you want, without a fair exchange, is akin to robbery.

Do we honestly believe that food grown by mother earth and fed with the energies of the cosmos can be claimed ownership by any one individual here on this planet. And this same idea applies to everything you see and the resultant energy of thought that manifested it all.

The food grows largely on its own, with the help of nature, but someone has to till the soil, plant the seeds, pull the weeds, nurture the plants, harvest them, and bring them to market to make them available to others. The bounty they harvest is the product of their work, not yours. If they had not done that work, the food would not exist, so of course they have the right to do with it as they wish, just as you would had you produced it. If people could not exchange their produce or products for other items, or for some viable credits to use in procuring what they want, then few people would grow any more produce, or create any more products, than they actually need to meet their own needs. The idea of simply taking whatever you want, whenever you want, and wherever you see it, will never fly. If you really favor this approach, why don't you open the front door to your house, and invite the first dozen people who walk by to come in and help themselves to whatever they want. Would you do that? And if you did, would you then expect that your neighbor across the street should then welcome you into his home and allow you to take whatever you want? Come on now, let's be serious!

[SkyWatcher]

Hi rickoff, of course i fully expected that would be your response and I understand how that perspective has been cultivated in our world. There isn't much more that I will say without taking a side or polarity because the only way this can be changed is by a completely different method similar to what i speak. Whether or not one can envision how this way of life can work is not the issue, for i think the dysfunction of our current societal systems speak for me. It is not in my intention to convey any disrespect in my text, please be assured i respect every souls thoughts without judgment. You reply that what i say would never work because not enough people would do the same and share all their labor and ideas freely. This is probably the case, however it reminds me of stage syndrome, where everyone waits for others to get on the dance stage for fear of whatever there fears may be. That is akin to saying we shouldn't help others in whatever way we may be able to help or merely smile at someone or hold a door open for fear nobody else will do similar things. I'm not asking anyone here to agree with me, all i wish to do is offer a different idea, nothing more or less.
peace love light
Tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Hi, a few more thoughts to add. I will now speak more about the practicality of my ideas which are not new, nor owned by any one individual. Since we've all engaged in the challenge of this world by deciding to be born, most don't have the ability at this time to instantly manifest all there basic needs, nor do most have replicator devices which would do similar things. So we are all learning by first hand experience and through other peoples experiences how certain ideas play out and we learn how certain ideas either act in harmony with life or not and we take notes. My notes show me that most interactions that involve goods and services have been created with ideas that attempt to prevent the very thought of the ideas i am speaking of, which is to basically share freely. After all, that is where everything starts, as a thought. You may notice my way of speaking of these issues, it is not needed to look at the details of the dysfunctional systems of thought, because that would never solve the issues since we would then be entertaining a system of thought that is fruitless for the good of all. Though you say this is idealistic and not practical, i can tell you the way the societal systems are at present are not practical and without the unseen balancing force that most humans have chosen to forget about during their experience here, the quality of human life would have been grim.
peace love light
Tyson

[rickoff]

I understand your philosophy, Tyson, and it's fine by me if you choose to live that way, but in reality is that what you currently practice? I'm all for sharing ideas, knowledge, labors to achieve a common cause, and also to freely share resources which I may have an over abundance of at any particular time. I have no problem with that, and it is how I have lived my life. What I can't agree with is your idea that it is okay to take whatever you want, whenever you want it, and wherever you see it, without reservation, thinking that it is somehow your right. That's the kind of thing that happens when you see a complete breakdown of morals, such as in the looting that took place after hurricane Katrina. I can't believe that you live that way now, or that you would welcome that kind of change. I asked you two pertinent questions at the bottom of post #305, regarding your take what you want philosophy, and you did not answer either of them. I ask them again. Please answer. If you really favor this approach, why don't you open the front door to your house, and invite the first dozen people who walk by to come in and help themselves to whatever they want. Would you do that? And if you did, would you then expect that your neighbor across the street should then welcome you into his home and allow you to take whatever you want? Here's another question - just how much are you willing to freely share with everyone else? In other words, is there a limit to what you would be willing to freely share with others, and if so then how would you stipulate and enforce that limit?

I'm not attempting to provoke any kind of argument with you, Tyson, but rather I am asking serious and relevant questions as to how the lifestyle you propose could possibly work.

Peace, love, and light to you too,

Rick

[h20power]

Hi folks, Hi rickoff, Hi mozaar. You have some good thoughts mozaar. Rickoff, I understand your views and I'm sure I'm not going to dazzle you with anything you may not already know, however when all is said and done, if each of us does not give freely our labor, time and ideas that would benefit the good of all, then one will continue to live in a reality field such as this one. Money or debt as the case is today, or any other intermediary tool which functions as an exchange device between humans will always devolve into the situation we experience today. Now as far as what will one do when at the grocery store, simple, take what is rightfully yours by divine inheritance. After all, nothing can truly be paid for since all we have is promise to pays or debt notes, therefore it must already be paid for and it truly is. Do we honestly believe that food grown by mother earth and fed with the energies of the cosmos can be claimed ownership by any one individual here on this planet. And this same idea applies to everything you see and the resultant energy of thought that manifested it all.
peace love light
Tyson

Hi Tyson,

That is not going to work as it is stealing someone else's labor. Farmers sow the land put in their time make sure the crop is well managed within the limits of their control. The way the Amish live is a better way to live than the way we are all living today, for everyone has their part to do in the community, and when something bad happens to one or more of them, like a tornado strike, the whole group pulls together and rebuilds those that lost their homes a new home. The main thing there is you keep a strick check on greed, and no money changers are allowed (bankers, and the like). Now there is more to it than that but they live and are growing in numbers totally without government aid. And they have real accountability unlike our broken system where there is none for the Ruling Class.

Our tax system is just fine if it where to be correctly adhered too, and if the missing 13th amendment is put in place and the rule of law up held America will weed out these money changers and their cohorts.
Now if you where to come into my place of business and just load up and proceed out the door for some sort of birth right argument you may well end up dead after I am done with you. This country has what is known as a Constitution and Bill of rights, and is governed by the rule of law. All forms of birth rights belong to a Kings/queens society where freedom is given by the state and can be taken away. In our Republic we are free just as long as we follow the rule of law. We are not a Democracy as many believe we are today, and the two forms of government are not the same. The missing thirteenth amendment is not perfect as the part where congress can vote in changes if they diem fit has to be stricken from the record as the money changes will use that to get things back to the way things are today, massive public looting, and zero accountability, and far too large a government than the Republic needs and is required to have by any measure. But mostly the citizens of America do not know their rights and/or responsibilities to the Republic. What does it mean to be a citizen? It is a lot of hard work to really be a citizen of the United States of America, and people with birth right expectations, don't want to work for anything, they just want to take and/or be given a silver spoon through life. No, being a true citizen of the Republic requires work of it's citizens to make sure it runs the way it was intended to run by it's founding fathers. Complacent, and lazy citizens have let our country be put on a count down to it's demise by the Ruling Class, we know have just 21-1/2 months to the end of the Republic if they have their way. Plus in there plan the Republic will fall by way of thunderous applause, just like shown in the Star Wars movies. Once they crash the dollar and you and others like you start to really suffer you will accept their solution to getting your life back to the way things where and even demand it from them. This will come in a new form of currency that will replace the fallen Dollar, but there is a hidden catch to it, it requires the end of the Republic and the creation of the North American Union or what ever name they choose to give it. This new form of government has already been drafted and is just awaiting acceptance of it's currency. Acceptance of it's currency is acceptance of it's new rules of governance. Welcome to the reality of our life today as this plan is being put into action you the average citizen will just be given mass amounts of high quality entertainment, and that includes the News your receive, and then have that rug pulled out from under your feet at the end of the boat ride. This may sound harsh but it is the reality in which we live in today, the war against the Republic is a silent and vastly unknown war. The citizens of the Republic do not even know they are under attack, by the money changers and their cohorts. This thread attempts to shed light on this unusual war being waged against the citizens of the Republic of the United States of America. WAKE UP! For now is the time to ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country for your country is under attack, and the enemy is hidden in plain sight.


h2opower.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi h20power, h20power, im not sure your reading or understanding what i have been posting, but i can assure you i understand fully there agenda and if you notice i am pointing out that money in any form is not a good idea. Rickoff, why you wish to take things to the extreme tells me something about you, im only offering an idea and that idea is to share freely, now if folks cant get there minds around this simple concept, then i cant help that. Heck if we cant even speak about how sharing freely could work, how will it ever be a reality in your world. All that needs to be said has been said, good luck.
peace love light
Tyson

[rickoff]

Rickoff, why you wish to take things to the extreme tells me something about you, im only offering an idea and that idea is to share freely

Why do you consider reality to be an extreme, and those who speak of realities as being extremists? You espoused a philosophy of taking whatever you want whenever and wherever you want it as being your right. I think that is an extremist view. That has nothing to do with sharing, unless you are willing to admit that what you would take from others who don't share your point of view would result in forced and inequitable sharing (your supermarket example, for instance). How is the concept of allowing anyone to come into your house and take whatever they want (your food, your hard earned belongings, your treasured family heirlooms, your children, or your wife) any different than your idea of freely taking whatever you want at the grocery store? Certainly you must agree that there must be limits upon what is acceptable, and those limits would need to be established, understood, and agreeable to most people. And that is why we have societies, rules and laws. Without order there is only chaos.

Heck if we cant even speak about how sharing freely could work, how will it ever be a reality in your world. All that needs to be said has been said

No one is attempting to prevent you from speaking about how your philosophy could work. In fact, I asked you to explain how it would work under certain conditions and you have no answer. When you won't even answer legitimate questions, there is no way that anyone can have an intelligent discussion with you. Offering a solution to the problem we have been discussing in this thread, that is different than what we have been talking about is fine, but if you believe in your ideas then be willing to answer legitimate questions and concerns that others may have. If you are not willing to do this then of course there is no way that your philosophy can be advanced to the point of becoming a reality. I'm quite willing to listen with an open mind if you will be open enough to freely share some real answers.

Best regards,

Rick

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Tyson;

Since we've all engaged in the challenge of this world by deciding to be born...

No one decides to be born. We all know how babies are made and then come into the world through a natural process.

Though you say this is idealistic and not practical...

Your right;we say it is idealistic and impractical because it is. With all due respect it takes systems (including monetary systems) to manage things in the complicated world we live in. The real problem is twofold, the corrupt people in the system and an evil force in the world which many apparently fail to recognize.

You are talking about living in a utopia which has not existed on earth to any large degree since Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden. The Essenes tried it and the Romans wiped them out. Jesus brought a message of peace, love and light and look what happened to him. He did not tell his disciples to sit back and receive a "divine inheritance" (and anyone trying to walk out of a store with a load of merchandise they haven't paid for will be served their "divine inheritance" through the bars of their cell). He told them to get to work and spread the gospel, not sit around just meditating and praying, and he lived in a system far worse than ours.

I think that is the pattern he left; use the system at hand and do your best to improve it and help your fellow man along the way as much as you can; get to work and if you are fortunate enough or smart enough to be an above average success, take care of your family first and then share the rest with others. And yes, pray for help to make this world better for all of us and then put feet to your prayers.

Someone once said "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". This thread is exposing evil in high places and pointing out how to combat it. The old saying of "lead, follow or get out of the way" applies. Use the precinct system to start. Attend these meetings and share your message of peace, love and light there, then use your vote to get rid of the corrupt politicos and start turning this country around, back to the principles it was founded on. Then we can all live whatever lifestyle we choose more openly and freely. That's the reality we all live in and the only one that counts.


Al

[rickoff]

Someone once said "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".

Yes, Al, that was Edmund Burke, the "father of modern conservatism." He also said,

Neither the few nor the many have a right to act merely by their will, in any matter connected with duty, trust, engagement, or obligation.

Rick

[h20power]

Hi Tyson,

Let us talk about the video I gave to you to watch, what did you get out of it? Lets open up a dialog to see your view points of just what America is. I hope you took the time to watch the video as we can have no dialog if you didn't.

Citizenship is almost like water as the vast majority of us take it for granted. What does it mean to be a citizen? What are the duties of the citizens?

And if your looking for someone to give to his fellow man look no further as I have given what I think is going to be the greatest gifts of all to mankind, the gift of energy independence.


h2opower.

[ashtweth]

YouTube - "The Secret of Oz" trailer - How to Fix the 2010 Depression - directed by Bill Still