The American Ruling Class

[Mad Scientist]

The difference between the FED issuing worthless fiat FRN or the government issuing worthless fiat greenbacks is quite simple. The FED charges interest when it loans out its FRNs. When the government issues greenbacks there is no need to pay interest to a third party. Is it possible for the government to abuse this system? Yes, of course. But at least we can vote in new leaders.

However with the FRNs there is no way to pay back the interest due without first borrowing more FRNs. This becomes a vicious cycle that quickly spins out of control then at some point the FED can say it is now obvious that you will never be able to pay back your debit; therefore we are foreclosing your loan and confiscating all your assets. And that is the reason that TPTB created the Federal Reserve System in the first place as it was simply a means to allow them to take control of the country.


Yes the sheeple can be quite dopey at times and are more then willing to give even more of their rights, as this short video demonstrates.

Californians Petition to Ban Christian Symbols From Public View - YouTube

[aljhoa]

Neurosemantics or Neuro-Semantics is a model that describes how we humans get meaning (semantics) incorporated into our body (neurology) so that we feel meanings and do so in terms of our emotions and states.

Neurosemantics is an inter-disciplinary field, drawing from Cognitive behavioural psychology, General semantics, Neuro-linguistic programming and Systems thinking. Neuro-semantics claims to explore the structure of meaning and how those meanings become embodied within people. It approaches the mind-body-emotion system in several ways. From the mental dimension, it tries to explores how language works inside of us, how we attribute meaning, create meaning by words, associations, framing, metaphors, etc. From the neurological dimension, it seeks to explore how the body works with ideas to "realize" or "actualize" them and how what we do influences what we believe.
Dictionary - Definition of Neurosemantics

Mark Dice asks California beach goers to sign a petition to prevent the Holocaust Beach Party from being canceled due to budget cuts...
The Holocaust Beach Party in California (Petition Experiment) - YouTube

Al

[dutchdivco]

MS

Yes, des[pite my (sucky) public education, I DID 'get that' (the point your making, that FRN's carry a 'debt' whereas greenbacks don't.

Not sure I can 'picture' how the FED would 'foreclose', tho. Do they just show up at each persons house, place of business, etc. with court paperwork and deputies, and boot everyone out in the street?

Not enough cops, soldiers, etc. to carry it off, seems to me.

On the other hand, I recall once reading how Inflation is, in reality, a form of tax. I don't recall the chain of logic, except that it made sense at the time.
In effect, the Gov't 'profits' from inflation, was the thrust of the idea. Anyway, I don't think anyone is going to be successful in 'Auditing the FED', getting rid of the FED, getting rid of the IRS, etc. Not until the 'end times', when everything collapses. Just don't see it happening in any kind of a within the system way. But, we'll see, I guess

[aljhoa]

"Castle Trust Planning - Protecting Your Children’s Inheritance From Creditors’ Claims, Divorce, and Bankruptcy"

If you plan to leave an inheritance for your children, you need to be aware that your children’s’ future inheritances are at risk. They are at risk of being lost to creditors’ claims in a lawsuit, lost in a future divorce, or lost in a personal bankruptcy or business failure.

Castle Trust Planning - Protecting Your Children's Inheritance

How to Stop Paying Property Tax

1. Go to the Secretary of State's office for your state...
2. Record the boundaries that your property sits on ...
3. Since you are an assignee of the land, take a certified copy of the land grant or land release to a county court...
4. Since the judge will have no place for argument as you are an assignee to the land, you will most likely get a judgment in your favor ordering your local appraisal district to remove your home from their roll call...
How To Stop Paying Property Tax


Al

[rickoff]

I think you don't really understand the concept of 'semantics', just as I, (probably as a result of that greenback funded (initially, at least) public education system, don't really understand finance.

I assure you that I do understand semantics. Yes, the most commonly understood meaning of a word can change over time, and there are many examples of that. For example, "gay" used to be thought of as cheerful in olden times, but now brings to mind another meaning.

Perhaps when I asked you, "If the majority of people who were shown an artificial apple believed it to be a real apple, would that make it an apple?," I should have asked instead, "If the majority of people who were shown an artificial apple made from hard plastic believed it to be a real, edible apple, would that make it a real, edible apple?" I doubt you would answer, "Well, yes, it would. Thats what sematics is about," as you did before. Just because the majority of people think something is true does not make it true.

Whether the financing of the government is done thru FRN's, or greenbacks, the problem is how to restrain the growth of government. The government being able to directly print more $ whenever it wants means MORE government, which means less liberty. NOT in favor of that.

That's not a valid perception, Jim. The reason government has grown so large is that they have instituted so many programs and bureaucratic departments to oversee those federal programs. And aside from centralized control over the public, the main purpose of these bureaucracies has become to set up dependencies where the people rely on what is "doled out" to them as "redistributed wealth," either for their partial or total sustenance. Now think about this - if the US Treasury was authorized to send every American citizen, and legal resident alien, a coupon redeemable for say $10,000 in greenbacks at a state or county owned bank near their locale, this would create an immediate infusion of prosperity that would have the effect of making all those dependency programs and bureaucracies no longer necessary. They could be shut down tomorrow, greatly reducing the size of government, and the government could go back to doing what the Founders intended for it to do - provide for the common security and defense of the People. Adequate greenbacks would quickly be in circulation as legal tender, and the Federal Reserve and IRS could swiftly be abolished. Why would you have a problem with any of that?

Wouldn't you rather be using these "greenbacks" rather than FRN's?

[dutchdivco]

There you go

It SAYS, right on the front of it; "The United States Government will pay to the bearer, on demand, 5 dollars." So, if you take this 'greenback' to one of these local banks, and 'demand' 5 dollars, WHAT are they going to give you???
5 one dollar 'greenbacks'? Trade the one 5$ greenback for another??

IF they said "This note is redeemable on demand for X amount of gold, or something, THEN the 5$ 'greenback' you posted an illustration of has some value. Maybe. As it is, its 'worthless'. Jim

[Mad Scientist]

I have a few $1 bills dating back to the mid 30's and a couple $5 bills from the mid 50's. These are silver certificates and could have been redeemed for silver.

I wonder how many banks would honor them today?

[jdodson]

If the majority of people who were shown an artificial apple made from hard plastic believed it to be a real, edible apple, would that make it a real, edible apple?" I doubt you would answer, "Well, yes, it would. Thats what sematics is about," as you did before. Just because the majority of people think something is true does not make it true.

The difference between money and an apple is that one is an object and the other is a definition. Money is not a real thing itself, its a word that defines a real object (such as golden metal, or FRN paper). Any object that is commonly traded in return for food and services can be defined as money.

I understand your point of view and actually agree, we shouldnt refer to FRN notes as money. I think that definition does give a false sense of "security" and that in effect could cause many people to be convinced these FRN notes are something we could not live without.

Although it does appear to be the correct definition to refer to FRN notes as "money" I do agree that we should abolish the federal reserve and actually refine the definition of "money" to only cover currency backed by a rare metal. That currently is not the definition of the word.

In alignment with dutchdivco, I too would fear giving the government the power of printing currency. Is capitalism not the reason we have a private corporation/bank printing our money? Isn't the reason we have 3 branches of government, to reduce the power-hold of a single branch? Would printing currency be enough motivation for those branches to overcome that separation of power and potentially enact some form of dictatorship?

If they could choose to print their own money, they could choose where it goes, they could manipulate us in any way, shape or form desired. Was it not one of those big name bankers themselves who said, control a nations money supply and you will control the people?

I'm all for abolishing the Federal Reserve, but I have no faith in the government to give them the power of printing our currency. We should not trust the government which is why we are all allowed to bear arms, in defense of tyranny.

[aljhoa]

Adequate greenbacks would quickly be in circulation as legal tender, and the Federal Reserve and IRS could swiftly be abolished.

According to some jurisdictions and customs, simply charging any interest at all can be considered usury.[3][4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Formally, it is anything which when offered in payment extinguishes the debt. Thus, personal cheques, credit cards, debit cards, and similar non-cash methods of payment are not usually legal tender.
Legal tender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Al

[Mad Scientist]

I generally agree with all that you say except:

Is capitalism not the reason we have a private corporation/bank printing our money?

Capitalism is not the reason we have a private central bank. The sole reason the Federal Reserve System was created was to do all of the nasty things you mentioned and more. Prior to it we had two other national banks. Both of which were eventually abolished after the people realized that these banks did not have their best interests in mind. After the collapse of the second nation bank capitalism flourished and the country experienced a surge in growth.

However all this money freely flowing around was just too much the bankers to bear they wanted to be in control of it thus they created the Federal Reserve System. So today we effectively have a group of private banks in control of our government and thus running the country.

Could our current crop of politicians do a better job of managing our money? I’m not so sure, but I doubt they could do any worse. However if they really screwed up we could at least vote them out of office some thing we cannot do with the FED.

[5150]

I'm all for abolishing the Federal Reserve, but I have no faith in the government to give them the power of printing our currency. We should not trust the government which is why we are all allowed to bear arms, in defense of tyranny.

Heck then why not abolish the entire federal government at the same time that we abolish the Federal Reserve? For me the Government is the most corrupt evil on the earth and every day they pass more laws restricting god given rights while abusing people around the world. I could rant on for hours but I wont.

All I will say is that I'm at the point where I feel that the American people will rightfully pay for their complacency and their lack of action when the dollar crashes and becomes worthless. When the people are starving and trying to feed their children or their homes have no running water or heat or when they realize the vultures are circling I just can't have much sympathy for them as they allowed it to manifest itself to such a point or no return.

Call me a traitor or anything else you want but I am all for other countries dropping the US dollar and making it worthless. I see that as the only way to collapse the Federal Government and their entire ponzi scheme. Sure many people will perish but so goes life. Just chalk it up to Americans finally giving their lives and their plundered riches for the greater good of the world, I mean after all doesn't America go around the world killing thousands of innocent people in the name of freedom, liberty, and democracy?

here is an older article but still really good and so on the mark its scary that the majority of people don't see it or won't do anything to stop it.

"When the State Becomes God"

When the State Becomes God, By Lee Penn (All rights reserved, SCP)

[dutchdivco]

5150

I agree with much of what you say, but without your,....emotion. The sheeple will pay a price fortheir complacency. If if TPTB have done all that it is said they have done, the sheeple ALLOWED 'THEM' to do it. 'We', colllectively, took our eyes off the ball.
I'm not confident exactly WHAT is going to trigger the collapse; worldwide 'loss of confidence' in the Dollar, run-away inflation, which with an ending of 'quantitative easing' seems a real possibility, or some other combination of factors.
Not sure WHATS goint to 'trigger' it, or when, just confident it WILL happen.

And not ALL that simpithetic to the large # of sheeple who will be 'caught by surprise' and totally devastated when it happens. Cold-blooded, but there's too many *ssholes, anyway.

Government IS just a reflexion of people; we make decisions based on too little information, based on emotion or what we want, we can't possibly really know the long term consequences, and the unintended consequences; and Government, being comprised of people, has the same shortcomings.

If its EVIL, its the evil within us, given experession. People are 'conservative', and generally prefer the devil they know, to the one they don't. So, its only when the status quo becomes intolerable, to a significant portion of the population, so that they are ready to accept the devil they don't know, rather than continue to tolerate the one they do, that change will happen.
And no one can accurately predict when that 'tipping point' will occur.

The thing about 'revolutions'; they come around again and again, thats WHY they are called revolutions! To adapt a quote about soldiering; the object is not to die for your cause, even freedom; the object is to get the other dumb SOB to die for 'his' cause, of trying to limit your freedom!

Others can be martyrs, dieing on the front lines. I prefer to find myself a nice hole to climb in, and wait out the chaos. But then I'm old! There's a reason they recruit YOUNG people for military service! Having less days left till I 'naturally' meet my maker, I intend to enjoy as many of them as possible.
Jim

[aljhoa]

Al

[jdodson]

So today we effectively have a group of private banks in control of our government and thus running the country.

The difference, is that the government should have oversight of any and all private corporations/banks. I believe it is that, which makes capitalism successful. People have the power to pursue building any corporation they choose while the government has the power of oversight on those corporations. Which is why "slave labor" for example is practically non-existent here.

I agree, even while the power of the banks are separated from the power of government, that power the banks hold appears to be enough to visibly influence the governments oversight decisions (such as NOT auditing the FED)

We the people, however have the power to ensure that influence does not happen. We the people can demand the government audit the FED. WE simply must form a majority or super majority to overcome that influence by the banks over the government.

If you remove the private sector from that equation, where does the oversight come from? Do you trust the government to have oversight of itself? Look how many government scandals have happened recently...Their scape goat every time while testifying is that they "didnt know the abuse was occurring" and they, in effect skate by.

However if they really screwed up we could at least vote them out of office some thing we cannot do with the FED.

Currently that is true and we have that power, however I fear the government with the ability to print their own money could use that purchasing power to manipulate people into allowing them to rewrite those voting and election laws. We the people, are the oversight of the government. The government could influence us with their power of money the exact same way the Private Banks are visibly influencing the government currently today!

Corruption is a human wide event. There is no magic pill to swallow to make it go away.
There will always be power and influence lying somewhere. The greatest thing I believe the founding fathers did was to understand that notion and keep powers separated which is why I believe capitalism is the greatest form of governance.

By keeping the money supply in the private sector it separates the power from the government.

A new breed of currency in my opinion should be managed by some form of private organization basically non-profit group with oversight by the government. I do not know if that would work? All that I know is, that it would keep power separated. I also am still unsure about the ramifications of having any printable currency not backed by anything of real value. It could work I suppose as rickoff mentions but it just seems ripe for abuse.

I am not sold on the idea that printing a magical number to solve all debt problems with no tax will be the magic pill to fix everything? If we got ourselves into this mess and determined that creating something artificial will always fix everything, it would just seem like a system that could spiral out of control while no one would have any real interest in being responsible?

why not abolish the entire federal government.....For me the Government is the most corrupt evil on the earth and every day they pass more laws restricting god given rights while abusing people around the world.

That's just not the answer. The governments purpose is oversight. People need oversight. There will always be a government. There are too many millions of people here for us all to manage and oversee ourselves. As a species, I don't believe we have evolved enough of an intellectual and emotional capacity to achieve that accomplishment. Not to mention, the sheer number of us that are here, makes that task that much harder.

Within our current system, we the people, have oversight of the government and can change their regulations. I don't believe there is a system currently better than that.

@dutchdivco I find myself agreeing with much of what you say. I think we agree that the problem with the world is the devil within us all. I too think the government is a reflection of us and has our short commings of being near sighted and far too emotionally responsive. It is for that, I too can only see a major collapse at some point in the future.

The biggest problem that I personally have with the world, is that I think we have wildly over populated it and will only stop when its too late. We seriously lack in long term oversight of what we are doing. That I believe is the greatest flaw we contain. There is no reason this planet should contain more than 500 million people. I'm in agreement with the Georgia guide stones. I certainly don't support killing people, we should have just never been born. Even if that would have included me not being here. I was perfectly fine, wherever I was.

[5150]

I agree with much of what you say, but without your,....emotion.

Jim I prefer to call it passion opposed to “emotion” but hey. LOL I do understand I come off at times as a reckless loaded gun but I just cannot keep my mouth shut over all the abuse, lies and criminal actions I see going on by our government.

Therefore since I see no way to stop that train of criminals and I do not advocate anything criminal to counter their actions the only thing I see left as an option that has teeth is to starve that beast through the collapse of the dollar. Then others who are upset can then rise up and use violence if they want too and I am sure when government checks get cut off there will be plenty of willing advocates of violence. Only then we will see the real government in action.

The difference, is that the government should have oversight of any and all private corporations/banks. I believe it is that, which makes capitalism successful. People have the power to pursue building any corporation they choose while the government has the power of oversight on those corporations. Which is why "slave labor" for example is practically non-existent here.

Define slave labor? Because where I sit all I see is slave labor it’s just wrapped up in a nice pretty package and called something else that’s easier to accept. Sure nobody is forced to work as in slave labor but we are all forced to pay taxes which is a form of slavery we pay with our labor. We can agree to disagree all day long but they way I see it is that everyone belongs to the government and is owned and forced to pay. Therefore everyone is a slave in one form or another.

Now if you’re talking about slave labor where you are forced to work for little or no wages, well this is why the southern border is still wide open. Those “illegal Aliens” are modern day slaves working for little wages yet they keep the economy moving along. They are being vilified by most Americans for being here undocumented but they are being exploited by the government who allows them in and to stay. This way the economy doesn’t come to a screeching stop. Slave labor also comes in the form of large companies underpaying employees or reducing the work force to part timers so they don’t have to pay benefits.

Make no mistake your arsse is owned and if you think you are free in any sense then try not paying taxes and you will find out just how owned you really are. I laugh at the argument that taxes are everyone’s responsibility and I agree in principal that taxes are a necessity, what I don’t agree on is being forced to pay taxes when that money is going to other countries, or stupid social programs or being spent is frivolous ways like 100 million dollar vacations for a president who is a lying sack of fecal matter. Road taxes, yes, school taxes yes, those types of taxes are needed but giving 2 billion dollars a year to Israel is not my idea of my fair share of taxes.


I also understand governments are needed and I have never advocated for anarchy or a non government but what I do scream for is an honest government working for the people in a fair and ethical manner. Maybe I am expecting too much but heck if we can put a man on the moon and create all the things we have why can’t we have honest government?